Boards›Gameplay

Mordekaiser live damage based shield generation vs the new Max hp based PBE shield gen.

JedenVojak··4 votes·1,770 views

I wanted to see how the generation of the shield on Mordekaiser's abilities based off of damage measure up against his new, Max HP shield generation passive. I made a spreadsheet to do the calculations to calculate the damage and shield generation, and I fed in values based off a full AP mordekaiser build. I calculated the values based on 2 extemes: a squishy carry, and a full tank build.

There appears to be no way to add a table to the post, so sorry for the ugly formatting:

Lv 18 - all abilities maxed Base AP:653.89 % MR Pen: .36 flat MR Pen: 37.8

1st case: Squishy marksman, mr/level runes + guardian angel Max health: 1950 Enemy MR: 104.3 Q DMG: 357.92, **shield gen: 125.27, Max HP required on new Mordekaiser (based on 4% value) for equivalent shield gen: 3131.87 Q isolated DMG: 590.58, shield gen: ** 206.70, max hp required on new Mordekaiser (based on 8% value) for equivalent shield gen: 2583.80 W dmg/sec: 163.45, shield gen: 57.2, max hp required on new Mordekaiser (based on 1% value) for equivalent shield gen: 5720.91 E dmg: 498.12, **shield gen: ** 174.34, max hp required on new Mordekaiser (based on 4% value) for equivalent shield gen: 4358.54 R dmg(calculated as total damage for the whole ult): 909.67, **shield gen: ** 318, max hp required on new Mordekaiser (based on total 35% value) for equivalent shield gen: 909.67

2nd case: Standard tank, mr/level runes + merc treads and spirit visage Max health: 3800 Enemy MR: 163 Q DMG: 277.18, shield gen: 97.01, Max HP required on new Mordekaiser for equivalent shield gen: 2425.30 Q isolated DMG: 457.34, shield gen: 160.07, max hp required on new Mordekaiser for equivalent shield gen: 2000.88 W dmg/sec: 126.57, shield gen: 44.30, max hp required on new Mordekaiser for equivalent shield gen: 4430.24 E dmg: 385.74, **shield gen: ** 135.01, max hp required on new Mordekaiser for equivalent shield gen: 3375.22 R dmg: 1372.76, shield gen: 480.46, max hp required on new Mordekaiser: 1372.75

What does this mean for Mordekaiser?

For one thing, the PBE shield gen passive is strangely better at generating shields when fighting against tankier, higher MR targets than against squishy targets (the sort of people he wants to murder with his ult). Another thing I've noticed is that the shield generation for his Creeping Death is waaaaaaaay undertuned in the PBE version vs live values; even just playing with that skill on Mordekaiser, I consider that his best skill for generating shield: now it's his worst skill at the job. Strangely his ult gives him a crap ton of shield generation - in theory your shields should be loaded when you have someone under the effects of your ult.

From what I can see though, Morde is gonna have to build a lot of health to be able to generate the kind of shields he was getting with going full damage. Another thing to note is building that health means you're going to do a lot less damage overall.

I don't like it.

I always thought it was cool that Mordekaiser was basically feeding off his enemies pain to shield himself, rather than just cowering behind defenses. If they want to make Mordekaiser tankier, I think they should just open up his shield to all of his damage, instead of just his spells; that would let things like thornmail and sunfire cape, or even his auto attacks fill his shield also, while still being true to his theme of a damage shieldy guy.

9 Comments

ExiledTyrant1 votes

It's nice seeing the numbers side to side. I think Morde is going to be best played around 3000-3200 health for shield gen. It is still to hard for me to tell how big of an impact his shield no longer decaying and the 1000-1500 or so health people will be building on him is going to effect him. Maybe bumping his W to 2% instead of 1% because of it's small radius would be in order but then you have to take in account double shielding when you creeping death an ally. Hopefully more info and a video ( not sure if PBE players can do that) will shed some light on how much better or worse shielding is and if sacrificing 200-300 or so ap is worth it.

JedenVojak1 votes

Even if the shield generation is better on the new mordekaiser for building health, he's going to be doing less damage and damage is all that he has...

I'm especially concerned as to how he's supposed to get a ghost if he doesn't have damage. It's not like the upped the damage of his ult or made it scale on health.

ExiledTyrant1 votes

{quoted}

Even if the shield generation is better on the new mordekaiser for building health, he's going to be doing less damage and damage is all that he has...

I'm especially concerned as to how he's supposed to get a ghost if he doesn't have damage. It's not like the upped the damage of his ult or made it scale on health.

It's a valid concern much like how is he going to build health so early when he wants early pen and sustain first. I don't think any of us know how it will pan out yet. These changes are something that really looks like they need to played first hand for awhile to gauge the exact impact of his current damage loss vs his staying power and now required liandries burn combo. Is the double pressure from creeping death at all impactful if you and the ally are sunfire cape users? A lot to see and think about.

I could get behind a change to his W or R still as they seem to be the ones in need of the most tweaking be it shield gen wise or for overall gameplay health.

Cindikle1 votes

You also have to remember he'll be building tankier. So under his new playstyle his shield will be worth more. On top of already building more HP. Can't let him have the same shield when he's getting to build tankier.

JedenVojak1 votes

{quoted}

You also have to remember he'll be building tankier. So under his new playstyle his shield will be worth more. On top of already building more HP. Can't let him have the same shield when he's getting to build tankier.

It's not that he's getting to build tankier. He's forced to build tanky in order to benefit from his passive. The same shield won't work because he's not going to be doing any damage, not because it would be somehow overpowered. They literally did not add any tankyness to the champion whatsoever - he's still doing what he did before, casting spells on enemies to fill his shield bar, only now he's doing less damage, and generating less shields.

ExiledTyrant1 votes

{quoted}

It's not that he's getting to build tankier. He's forced to build tanky in order to benefit from his passive. The same shield won't work because he's not going to be doing any damage, not because it would be somehow overpowered. They literally did not add any tankyness to the champion whatsoever - he's still doing what he did before, casting spells on enemies to fill his shield bar, only now he's doing less damage, and generating less shields.

Most Morde builds I use and have seen are actually only between 400-550 ap range. Your projected 653 AP is extreme to begin with. Even then it only pulls away at shield gen on his E against targets who have at or less magic resist in the 20 percents. The W has to be accounted for having 2 creeping deaths out at once halving the actual maximum health needed. Most new builds will also more than likely surpass the 3100 hp threshold for Q in the extreme.

item 3151 item 3075 item 3020 item 3116 item 3146 item 3065 is going to be supplying 3200 health full build and still 300+ ap with dragon + pot without taking runes into consideration just health masteries.

With creeping death and depending on runes that is 9-10k in physical health and 6.5k- 7.5 in magic health

That vs something like

item 3116 item 3020 item 3135 item 3146 item 3157 item 3089 with dragon and pot your hitting that extreme 650-680+ range. That's putting you around 2500 health with health masteries and runes. Most of the rune space itself will probably be taken up by pen. It is absolute paper in comparison however with creeping death and health masteries around 6.7k physical health and 4400 magical health.

All the while new shield gen is better in most circumstances vs the extreme and definitely vs less extreme old morde builds.

JedenVojak1 votes

{quoted}

Most Morde builds I use and have seen are actually only between 400-550 ap range. Your projected 653 AP is extreme to begin with. Even then it only pulls away at shield gen on his E against targets who have at or less magic resist in the 20 percents. The W has to be accounted for having 2 creeping deaths out at once halving the actual maximum health needed. Most new builds will also more than likely surpass the 3100 hp threshold for Q in the extreme.

item 3151 item 3075 item 3020 item 3116 item 3146 item 3065 is going to be supplying 3200 health full build and still 300+ ap with dragon + pot without taking runes into consideration just health masteries.

With creeping death and depending on runes that is 9-10k in physical health and 6.5k- 7.5 in magic health

That vs something like

item 3116 item 3020 item 3135 item 3146 item 3157 item 3089 with dragon and pot your hitting that extreme 650-680+ range. That's putting you around 2500 health with health masteries and runes. Most of the rune space itself will probably be taken up by pen. It is absolute paper in comparison however with creeping death and health masteries around 6.7k physical health and 4400 magical health.

All the while new shield gen is better in most circumstances vs the extreme and definitely vs less extreme old morde builds.

My preferred build actually looks more like this: item 3151 item 3152 item 3020 item 3089 item 3135 item 3157

I've found that you get more shield and live longer if you simply do more damage, and as long as I was actually straight up fighting people, my shield would keep me mostly alive even at extremely low health values. The times where I died, it was because I didn't do enough damage to kill my enemies before my shields and cooldowns were all run out, or because my enemies out ranged me and I couldn't fight them to generate my shield, which the current situation didn't help with anyway. In all the instances where I tried to be tankier, I didn't do enough damage to kill my enemies and I died - there's a definate balance to strike between the damage you do and the shields you generate in order to stay alive.

In any case, you are correct in that, the less damage you do, the more the health scaling shield benefits you - but if you're not doing damage, you're wasting space.

I don't know if you've played d&d 3.5, but Morde basically suffers from the Fighter problem. You can build up your defenses as high as you want, but if you can't stop the enemies from passing you and force them to fight you, the monsters will all ignore you and go for your rogue or squishy caster character - the only way fighters could keep up and stay relevant is by doing massive damage so the monsters are forced to deal with them (usually with a barbarian dip and charge optimization).

Mordekaiser can't force people to fight him, and unless Riot's going to change that, I don't see how he can be relevant in anything other than a full damage build.

ExiledTyrant1 votes

{quoted}

My preferred build actually looks more like this: item 3151 item 3152 item 3020 item 3089 item 3135 item 3157

I've found that you get more shield and live longer if you simply do more damage, and as long as I was actually straight up fighting people, my shield would keep me mostly alive even at extremely low health values. The times where I died, it was because I didn't do enough damage to kill my enemies before my shields and cooldowns were all run out, or because my enemies out ranged me and I couldn't fight them to generate my shield, which the current situation didn't help with anyway. In all the instances where I tried to be tankier, I didn't do enough damage to kill my enemies and I died - there's a definate balance to strike between the damage you do and the shields you generate in order to stay alive.

In any case, you are correct in that, the less damage you do, the more the health scaling shield benefits you - but if you're not doing damage, you're wasting space.

I don't know if you've played d&d 3.5, but Morde basically suffers from the Fighter problem. You can build up your defenses as high as you want, but if you can't stop the enemies from passing you and force them to fight you, the monsters will all ignore you and go for your rogue or squishy caster character - the only way fighters could keep up and stay relevant is by doing massive damage so the monsters are forced to deal with them (usually with a barbarian dip and charge optimization).

Mordekaiser can't force people to fight him, and unless Riot's going to change that, I don't see how he can be relevant in anything other than a full damage build.

His dps really shoots up from cdr even more so now. I don't know if his 3 second rotation window being slightly weaker will push him out or not. The general direction looks to be make him an even bigger AOE threat than he was originally and combine that with the threat of a ghost. With more staying power to boot. I don't know how it will work out.

Kouga1 votes

Yes he is being forced to build tankier; but that was their intention. They are shoving him towards the tank role - which, for my two cents, I agree with. LoL doesn't need another burst mage to QQ about, but I think he's most fun when he's a beefy tank grinding out steady AP damage.

As for his abilities I think the shield generation needs to be tweaked. As it states, his W only gives him 1% per target hit, period. I think it needs to be 1% per target per second so if you stand in it, he gets more shield. I don't know if this was mistakenly stated or not, I've posted for a clarification and haven't heard back yet.

And his ult continually generates shield while the ghost is active, rather than being based on the ghost dealing damage. Again, not sure how I feel about that. I think they did that to avoid a situation where, if the ghost generated it each time the ghost OR morde did damage, it'd stack the health too quickly and he'd be effectively unkillable.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by JedenVojak

Isn't New Sion's health scaling passive on Soul Furnice pointless?
Gameplay164 comments
151
votes
All increasing the burst windows of assassins does is turn them into inferior fighters.
Gameplay123 comments
50
votes
Please do not try to force me to build AD on Mordekaiser; I want to build AP.
Gameplay19 comments
40
votes
I could be wrong, but to me the Ryze changes seem like a huge nerf
Gameplay114 comments
34
votes
I just wanted to say, this is my first time playing URF, and I think it's really fun.
Maps & Modes15 comments
14
votes
Suggestion for new Sejuani stacking passive.
Gameplay4 comments
8
votes