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A Proposed change to Evelynn, solidifying her assassin identity and removing perma stealth

destos··41 votes·4,177 views

Evelynn Evelynn, this champion is one of my favorites to play, using her passive to sneak past enemy teams and pop their squishies or vulnerable stragglers is one of the most satisfying experiences I've encountered. I've even played 203 games with her this season alone. However, I recognize how toxic her passive perma-stealth can be in a solo-queue environment where communication and warding/pink placement is more often than not, lackluster.

I think a possible solution to fix this would be to revert her passive of shadow walk back into an activated ability. This leaves her in need of a new passive and possible tweaks to her other abilities as well.

editing with feedback and ideas for improvements

  • edit: increased W stealth time to 6 seconds from 3.5 (agreed on longer stealth being a key identifier of her kit)

-idea for new Passive- Evelynn regenerates 1% of her maximum mana every second while out of combat. When Stealthed Evelynn's next ability cast becomes modified: Q-hate spike- the next cast now erupt in a cone in front of Evelynn E-Ravage- the next cast now adds a third strike instead of 2. R-Agony's Embrace- the next cast now deals (1.0 AP) flat damage divided evenly among every enemy hit.

-Idea for new W- Shadow Walk cost 40 mana cooldown 15 Evelynn becomes stealthed for the next 6 seconds and breaks free from any slowing effects, if cast again within 6 seconds of the first cast Evelynn steps through the shadows to directly behind her target. (think of it as a reverse shaco Q)

64 Comments

SymbolicFear6 votes

Removing her stealth would destroy her as a champion. Only the whiners who say perma-stealth is too strong regardless of anything, (who are also the same people who don't know how to ward) will agree that she needs this kind of rework. She is an assassin, her stealth is her entire identity, and taking that from her would be basically removing her from the game.

The Mighty Flea5 votes

{quoted}

Removing her stealth would destroy her as a champion. Only the whiners who say perma-stealth is too strong regardless of anything, (who are also the same people who don't know how to ward) will agree that she needs this kind of rework. She is an assassin, her stealth is her entire identity, and taking that from her would be basically removing her from the game.

You obviously didn't play during season 2. She didn't have perma-stealth then and she was seen not only the jungle, but a hugely contested pick mid lane and top lane. She was a much more diverse champion then. Her stealth was on her w and it lasted a good deal of time. This would be a very fresh approach to Evelyn as a WHOLE.

Saianna3 votes

I think Evelynn was the first victim of angry mob of teenagers forcing Riot to rework/destroy a champion.

I'd be so happy if Riot were to bring back old Evelynn (while just removing her stun or changing it into slow)

Battlecast Sona6 votes

To be fair, a level 1 character "jungling", taking stealth at level 1, and coming out of the jungle and stunning you is pretty OP.

Also, what you're suggesting is EXACTLY the nerf that reduced Evelynn to joke character status and precipitated her rework. If they went back to "old" Evelynn, they'd have to completely rework her kit AGAIN.

Saianna4 votes

Back then many champions had target stuns (sion for example). They were just as unavoidable as Evelynns. Only difference was she was coming out of nowhere ;)

This part:

what you're suggesting is EXACTLY the nerf that reduced Evelynn to joke character status and precipitated her rework.

I'm disagreeing. People were mostly frustrated because old Evelynn had 2 pretty OP things (except stealth): a stun that could hit up to 2 targets passive/active global ultimate

I do understand her stealth could have been overbearing at some times. I even posted a suggestion ~3 weeks ago with BY FAR better perma stealth mechanic. And by better i meant there was counterplay for it. In short it was giving Evelynn HOTS-like stealth (example: Nova). People weren't interested unfortunately.. I think it was caused of mentioning HOTS.

Well... If Evelynn had that kind of stealth then:

  1. She'd have worse time initiating small fights (as opponents would see her blurry stealth)
  2. She'd have much stronger teamfight potential
  3. Wards could see her blurry stealth, but it'd be players job to actually spot her ganking.

Inb4 "blurry stealth is still OP" Nope. it isn't. Maybe at the beggining & learning it's hard to see stealthed units, but after 20-30...40 (if you are really a blockhead) you'll see Evelynn with no problems. Only difference will be in teamfights, when you won't be able to "look on Evelynn" while focuing on teamfight. Which would only increase her assassin identity.

Battlecast Sona2 votes

You can't really disagree - they removed Evelynn's stun and made it a slow. She then became garbage. There weren't any other big nerfs to her, just that, and in fact I believe they buffed some of her abilities to try and make up for it - it's just fact. I'm not saying she's a joke character now, but she definitely was joke character status pre-rework, and denying it is really just showing that you definitely didn't play before and after the big Evelynn nerf.

I don't disagree that her stealth is kinda overbearing, but I think there needs to be some re-assessment of AP Evelynn in the wake of DFG's removal - most of the nerfs to the character were precipitated by DFG and then that item was removed, and talking about balancing her in any way without first looking at the nerfs and reverting what was unneeded...

I honestly think Riot has kinda dug their own grave by making Evelynn do mixed damage, opening up a bruiser/fighter path for her. If she was full magic damage again, she could retain being an assassin (with her ult allowing her to do damage), but she'd be capable of being bursted down and itemized against. Currently I think half the problem is that she has AD and AP scaling and does physical and magical damage... Her kit is so all over the place that it's hard to itemize defenses, and it actually makes her early ganking STRONGER than giving her 1 type of damage because she doesn't really care what kind of resistances you have, at least early on.

Saianna1 votes

I've played her alot of times when she had a stun.. I have no idea how i have forgotten they've changed her stun into slow. It lasted 13 months.. Wow.. That's pretty big hole in my memory.

But they did not buff Evelynn. Patch 1: change stun -> slow + NERF on her ultimate (hp restored cut in more than half. AS reduced by 1/4) Patch 2: rework

She did not receive anything else unless you count in bugfix that also slightly nerfed her.

If Evelynn was so weak back then, then why they didn't try to buff her? I'll tell you why. Because TONS of players prefered to make 3 or even 4 threads about removing Evelynn instead buying 1 pink ward.

That's why.

There was nothing about balancing. They wanted Eve dead. That's why she received 3 nerfs before her rework.

Here's my source: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Evelynn/Background & countless Evelynn-hate threads in old forums with kids crying something like "she killed me when i was low health and was recalling in middle of lane buuhuu" SERIOUSLY..

Battlecast Sona1 votes

Basically, Riot will continue to nerf Evelynn because people will continue to cry about it. There's a reason she was unplayable for a full year almost, and there's a reason that she was good for all of 3 patches and then got immediately nerfed. I just wish Riot would rework her to a point where they are happy with her kit (THEY are, not the community's plebs, they'll never be happy as long as she keeps any semblance of stealth), so she can actually be in a not-garbage place. It hurts me after Season 1 Eve and post-rework Eve to see the runeglaive -> tank jungle path. It's SO sad to me that a character Riot wants to bill as an "assassin" basically builds as a full support jungler/offtank.

Aezanthya11 votes

{quoted}

You obviously didn't play during season 2. She didn't have perma-stealth then and she was seen not only the jungle, but a hugely contested pick mid lane and top lane. She was a much more diverse champion then. Her stealth was on her w and it lasted a good deal of time. This would be a very fresh approach to Evelyn as a WHOLE.

LOL. DONT LISTEN TO THIS GUY.

Eve was TRASH tier before her rework.... in season 2 she got popular BECAUSE of her rework.

Please, stop.

iamdestinos3 votes

Not trying to complain or be rude or anything just a question from someone not from season 2 but wasn't the rework something that made her a instant report if picked champ for a short time?

Fear Popo1 votes

No, the rework was a wonderful buff to her that turned her into a mid lane mage.

shalexade1 votes

Originally, her W turned her invisible and allowed her to stun her next target.

She also had an attack steroid as her ult, rather than what she has now.

Back then, the jungle was a lot harder, so she was generally played in lane- and kept well enough in check for the immature stage that the game was in.

Then someone discovered that you could run revive-smite on her, you could clear out the rocks, wraiths and wolves before sacrificing to blue buff, reviving, and kick on jungling with the buff given by revive (+400 health from a mastery)

So we have an invisible champ who can drop a stun on anyone and could be anywhere.

It was unfun, and was nerfed into the ground. Namely by way of turning the stun into a slow. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/V1.0.0.120 June 22, 2011

This is when eve defined Eve tier and she stayed this way for a year until the rework which is mentioned above http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/V1.0.0.143 July 19, 2012

Where she then shot to prominence as the eve we all now know and love (who smashed it in season 2).

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

He probably meant before her stun was taken away. To which I remember those times when Eve was a viable top n mid. But those aren't healthy examples of Eve balance. She was taken there because she was downright broken--as were many champs back then so it actually was strangely balanced.

Ofcourse, the nerfs took her away from both but then the rework put her right back in them. In a healthier state, but still unhealthy.

She's alot healthier now but there's no denying she is still extremely frustrating to play against when played well. You don't feel like you got outplayed when you die, you feel like you got punished for playing your lane and Eve is basically telling you you aren't allowed to leave your tower during laning phase.

Not that that happens to everyone every Eve game, but to every immobile laner that doesn't stick under their tower it does.

The Mighty Flea1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mega Minun,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OqpAXaXz,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2015-10-10T20:29:11.487+0000)

LOL. DONT LISTEN TO THIS GUY.

Eve was TRASH tier before her rework.... in season 2 she got popular BECAUSE of her rework.

Please, stop.

You obviously don't remember here hate spike at the time. It had a 1.0 ap ratio, and was an on target stun for 2 seconds. She was not trash tier and you are remembering a false. do you research.

Aezanthya1 votes

{quoted}

You obviously don't remember here hate spike at the time. It had a 1.0 ap ratio, and was an on target stun for 2 seconds. She was not trash tier and you are remembering a false. do you research.

It was not in season 2 that she had her stun. It was before season 2. So stop saying she was a competitive pick mid and top in season 2 when she was not.

"Season Two is the second competitive time period for League of Legends. Season Two began on November 29, 2011"

Evelynn lost her stun the 22nd of June 2011, with the release of Yorick.

So yeah, do your research.

Narasimha2 votes

I'm not sure if you're joking or serious.

The entire reason that she keeps getting nerf after nerf is because of her permastealth. It is literally and by far the strongest ability in the game bar none. Wards? Don't matter. Pink wards? Free source of gold for her, and doesn't stop her from coming back 5 seconds after she clears it.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not sure if you're joking or serious.

The entire reason that she keeps getting nerf after nerf is because of her permastealth. It is literally and by far the strongest ability in the game bar none. Wards? Don't matter. Pink wards? Free source of gold for her, and doesn't stop her from coming back 5 seconds after she clears it.

Your post is so stupid and wrong, there is no proper way of refuting you.

Narasimha1 votes

Truly a wonderful arguement. You really proved your point there. I am without words sir/ma'am. I simply cannot comprehend the magnitude of your rebuttal. It is so magnificent, so grand, that to us mere mortals it appears as nothing more than a scathing insult which only exists to prove my point. Truly, you are wasted on these boards. Go forth I say! Go, and spread your wings elsewhere! Go, and liberate yourself from the confines of this woofully logic based place!

Kuroi861 votes

It's not that it's too strong, it's that it warps her kit. So long as she can get in close enough to start dropping damage with little time to return fire before she unloads on you, then Riot is going to keep her damage low to prevent her from doing the Twitch thing and popping people before they can fight back.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

{quoted}

It's not that it's too strong, it's that it warps her kit. So long as she can get in close enough to start dropping damage with little time to return fire before she unloads on you, then Riot is going to keep her damage low to prevent her from doing the Twitch thing and popping people before they can fight back.

Pantheon and lee sin both do the same job but betrer.

Kuroi861 votes

To a degree yes, though you've often got more warning in those cases. Good warding can warn you of Lee Sin incoming and Pantheons ult has a pretty clear indication that he's dropping in. They beat Eve in sheer damage, though Eve gives more of a surprise. Simply put, if Riot gave Eve some decent burst, we'd have another Rengar on our hands... I don't want that, even if I love playing Eve.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

{quoted}

To a degree yes, though you've often got more warning in those cases. Good warding can warn you of Lee Sin incoming and Pantheons ult has a pretty clear indication that he's dropping in. They beat Eve in sheer damage, though Eve gives more of a surprise.

No, I was talking without their ultimates actually. Both lee sin and pantheon are capable of dodging wards. Seriously, there was a reason pantheon saw a lot of play in s4 in the lcs where they ward extremely well. Dodging a ward is not hard at all, and warding against eve is very simple as well. Lee sin does it as a basic ability utilizing wards.

both of them can burst harder and faster than she ever will even without their ultimates.

Simply put, if Riot gave Eve some decent burst, we'd have another Rengar on our hands... I don't want that, even if I love playing Eve.

Um...no...not really. Dfg was removed, and her Ult was turned to current damage. She will NEVER match the burst of rengar even though she is far squishier.

Kuroi861 votes

No, I was talking without their ultimates actually. Both lee sin and pantheon are capable of dodging wards. Seriously, there was a reason pantheon saw a lot of play in s4 in the lcs where they ward extremely well.

Panth was picked for a number of reasons. His ult allowed him to gank from well out of warding range. His kit gave him strong burst while allowing him to build heavy bruiser. Without his ult though, he can't simply bypass a ward, he's got to actually clear it or Lens it.

Dodging a ward is not hard at all, and warding against eve is very simple as well. Lee sin does it as a basic ability utilizing wards.

Simple but more expensive. Pinks cost more and are completely visible, so even if you see Eve coming, she can clear the pink, clear a camp and come back around.

both of them can burst harder and faster than she ever will even without their ultimates.

Panth yes, Lee no. Lee has a lot of damage packed into his Q and Ult, without his ult you're going to see a significant damage drop from him.

Um...no...not really. Dfg was removed, and her Ult was turned to current damage. She will NEVER match the burst of rengar even though she is far squishier.

Like I said, if they gave her DECENT burst. Rengars burst isn't that ludicrous, he can just deliver it in .4 seconds. o.0

Bears Dont Care1 votes

Panth was picked for a number of reasons. His ult allowed him to gank from well out of warding range. His kit gave him strong burst while allowing him to build heavy bruiser. Without his ult though, he can't simply bypass a ward, he's got to actually clear it or Lens it.

I disagree, his ult provided global presence solar to tf. It allowed him to split push and support a teamfight with ease. You can dodge a ward well through in lane ganks. push the lane, have pantheon slip in and wait. unless your opponent runs sightstone avoiding a ward is not too difficult.

Simple but more expensive. Pinks cost more and are completely visible, so even if you see Eve coming, she can clear the pink, clear a camp and come back around.

as can many other champions including shack or twitch. Both of which are afford true stealth allowing them to get in much closer to their targets..

Panth yes, Lee no. Lee has a lot of damage packed into his Q and Ult, without his ult you're going to see a significant damage drop from him.

Even without the his ult, Lee sins damage is superior to evelynn due to his passive, sustain, and ad scaling damage. he is one of the best champions for dealing with eve aa he can duel her, and counter jungle her.

Like I said, if they gave her DECENT burst. Rengars burst isn't that ludicrous, he can just deliver it in .4 seconds. o.0

That is kinda ludicrous o.o They uffed Evelyn's hate spike by 10 base at one point. they then nerfed it by 20 not because her burst was high, but they felt she dealt too much damage. furthermore, her q scaling is higher than in s4, suggesting they want her to build damage but...then they lower her base damage to the point being an assassin doesn't matter.

it's literally an issue of identity, rather than balance. They don't now what they want out of her.

Kuroi861 votes

it's literally an issue of identity, rather than balance. They don't now what they want out of her.

No, it's the issue they had with Kassadin Lucian and Cassiopeia. Riot is trying to preserve her "Identity" in this case being her stealth, and nerfing everything else to try and avoid doing what they should have done long ago. Take away the permastealth and give her something that won't warp her kit the way her current stealth does.

Battlecast Sona1 votes

What do you give Evelynn that doesn't require a full kit rework and whole new abilities though?

That's what I want to know. If you want to remove her stealth, fine (I don't think it'll ever happen, but fine) - but what does she do instead that fulfills her role and keeps her gameplay iconic and interesting?

Kuroi861 votes

Passive: Give Eve back her flat MS on spell hit.

Q: Make the scaling damage a flat amount instead of going up with levels and return the base damage.

W: A short duration stealth that breaks CC when cast.

E: Returned to magic damage. You can also make the AS a passive so you've always got it instead of for 3 friggen seconds.

R: Return to % max health instead of % current health.

There in we have a strong DPS assassin with decent burst and strong sticking power. This also retains her ability to build multiple ways and be effective without causing Lee Sin syndrome.

Battlecast Sona1 votes

I just don't understand why Rengar is allowed to exist and instaburst people from stealth but Evelynn can't even have a single type of damage on her abilities to help her lategame. Like... why?

Kuroi861 votes

My best guess, a case of Riot trying to fix things and fix things and finally throwing up their hands and giving up for the time being.

LegacyDAP5 votes

That's an interesting idea, and it doesn't seem too broken, but it does seem like an extremely good gap closer, so you might want to give it a high cooldown.

destos4 votes

that could certainly be done or tweaked to provide for additional balancing

Divewing1 votes

Give it a minimum time walking before she can blink-dash. I like your idea(s) btw

destos1 votes

like a 1 second or so internal cooldown before it can be reactivated?

Divewing1 votes

I was thinking maybe 2, but yeah

PokladnicaZla1 votes

{quoted}

That's an interesting idea, and it doesn't seem too broken, but it does seem like an extremely good gap closer, so you might want to give it a high cooldown.

Or just give her a second mana cost on it?40 for stealth +~80 for a gapcloser

I love your suggestion,just a few questions/ideas. 1)About her new W:Does she become stealth after 3.5 sec or for 3.5 sec?Why can she cast it after 6 sec of becoming stealthed? 2)The new E could be better.Maybe it could Terrify neutral monsters in a small AoE ,but have a different effect on Champions?

destos1 votes

  1. my thinking on it was to have an instant stealth for 3.5 seconds, as for the 6 second cast time I figured that would allow a window to close onto someone who dashed away or to better stick onto more mobile champs after you initially pop onto them and they escape.

  2. interesting idea, I wasn't quite sure what to augment her e with but i figured that adding a third hit would boost its damage by 50% and allow for a more single target focused burst, but I agree that having some form of neutral monster interaction would be nice for those who jungle her.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

So she can be stealthed fro 3.5 sec and after it ends she still has 2.5 sec to close the gap? Would she have any visual indicators that she can dash to the target?

Bears Dont Care1 votes

{quoted}

So she can be stealthed fro 3.5 sec and after it ends she still has 2.5 sec to close the gap? Would she have any visual indicators that she can dash to the target?

Whyy? shaco doesnt

PokladnicaZla1 votes

How do I explain this well.Hmm

When Shaco stealths he emits some kind of orange smoke(sometiems u can see it without having vision og him),which gives you enoguh clarity to back off.While even after rbaking stealth should also give enough clarity like ˝wait she's glowing pink her gap-closer is up!˝

destos1 votes

shaco only emits that "smoke" on casting Q, it doesnt follow him

PokladnicaZla1 votes

Never said it did.

Support Evelynn3 votes

Eve's stealth isn't a reposition tool, it's a stalk ability. Extremely long stealth is her forte, waiting for her enemy to drop the ball with abilities or what have you.

Instead of trying to rework Eve, you should be trying to rework stealth itself.

destos1 votes

but the fact that it is a stalk ability and is up permanently is what makes it so difficult to balance, there are literally no numbers you can tweak except for the delay it takes for her to re-enter her stealth

LaySF2 votes

increase her dmg ratios and yh cos right now the only way u can have dmg in first place is by getting extremely fed early through the use of perma stealth

darkdill1 votes

That's the whole reason why they nerfed Eve in the first place: her permastealth makes it really easy for her to get ahead via cheese plays.

Battlecast Sona1 votes

"really easy" until the enemy jungler buys 3 wards first back and a bunch of camps and everyone knows where you are, leading to you getting nothing done and being useless all game.

This is why I hate the argument that Evelynn "dodges" wards - no, you just have to ward differently against her, and they can still be just as effective at keeping her down because Evelynn that doesn't get fed is Evelynn that does nothing in the mid/lategame.

FastAsHeck2 votes

i think a long stealth like Twitch would fit her style, because ignoring wards is a core part of her. 3.5 seconds seems way too small, I'd say 8 seconds at least.

destos2 votes

adjusted it to 6 seconds, I feel that given this idea has a gap closer mechanic as well that too long would be broken and 6 seconds is a very long time to reposition/enter a lane from the fog

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Lol 3 on-hit effects on a single attack? Talk about the Sated/BoRK burst. That's a terrible idea.

The rest of it looks pretty good though.

SlashStriker1 votes

i think the old evelynn would be much better than the new one that perma stealth makes her too weak early game

basically she should be something like rengar evenlynn goes stealth but also give enemies giant (!) so it feels like something is there

the problem with stealth champions is that there is no way to say there is something there they either have to be nerfed to the ground completely unable to 1v1 anyone or way too strong because of the perma stealth and attack without any warning

In stacraft and Heroes of the Storm heroes are not 100% stealth they make field distortion that on which you can say there is someone once you hit them they exit stealth

stealth are Zeratul and Nova they can be stealth all the time but you can see there is something there

normal human beings dont see everything but they have feel the presence of objects and creatures makes no sense when something is stealth and you cant say if something is near and watching you

in league of legends this could at least be some kind of stealth unit identification symbol or 10% opacity on stealth units or field distortion technology that riot actually dont have right now riot implemented stealth since league of legends being released but dont think about countering this mechanic where blizzard solved it since 1998 in starcraft! AND NOW IS 2015 FOR FK SAKE AND WE HAVE NO PRESENCE DETECTION!!!

it really makes me mad that shaco appears completely from nowhere attack begins a fight when i have 50% health with 0 warning! WTF IS THAT MAN? he stealth all the way from his inner tower to my outer tower with fkin moba boots and ghostblade HOW THE FK DO YOU COUNTER THIS AND HOW THE FK DO YOU SEE IT COMING?!

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