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@RIOT What Are You Possibly Thinking Making Garen useless

King Odin··12 votes·2,643 views

http://www.newsoflegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Garen-Final-Portrait.jpg General Box Recommended items updated Health-per-level decreased from 96 to 84.25 AD-per-level increased from 3.5 to 4.5 Armor-per-level increased from 2.7 to 3 Auto Attack range increased from 125 to 175

http://www.newsoflegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Decisive-Strike-Final-Icon.jpg Decisive Strike [ Q ]

Silence duration decreased from 1.5/1.75/2/2.25/2.5 seconds to 1.5 at all ranks

http://www.newsoflegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Courage-Final-Icon.jpg Courage [ W ]

No longer grants 20% bonus Armor and Magic Resist New passive: Killing units permanently grants 0.2 Armor and Magic Resist (1 for champions, large monsters, and epic monsters), up to a maximum of 10/15/20/25/30 Active no longer decreases the duration of incoming CC by 30%

http://www.newsoflegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Judgement-Final-Icon.jpg Judgment [ E ]

Damage per tick changed from 10/22.5/35/47.5/60 [+0.35/0.4/0.45/0.5/0.55 Total AD] to 12/16/20/24/28 [+0.47/0.49/0.51/0.53/0.55 Total AD] Base damage ticks per cast decreased from 6 to 5 Cooldown decreased from 13/12/11/10/9 seconds to 9 at all ranks New passive: Judgement’s spin speed permanently increases at levels 1/4/7/10/13/16, resulting in a total of 5/6/7/8/9/10 maximum ticks of damage per cast If Garen cancels Judgement prematurely, he’s refunded cooldown equal to the remaining duration of the spin Garen no longer moves 20% slower while moving through minions Garen now moves 20% slower while moving toward champions he’s hitting with Judgment Judgment no longer benefits from Critical Strike Chance or Critical Strike Damage

http://www.newsoflegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Demacian-Justice-Final-Icon.jpg Demacian Justice [ R ]

New Passive: The enemy champion with the most recent kills is marked as Villain. Judgment ticks and basic attacks on the Villain deal an additional 1% of its max Health as true damage Demacian Justice now deals true damage to the Villain instead of magic damage

Thanks for making the Tenacity Tank high base damae dealer garbage, what are you all even thinking? I know it's PBE but as a Garen main just seeing this nonsense is scaring me

Problems - W is useless, no more tenacity, His soft CC is being devastated making his late game shit. GG Now Riven easily counter him

33 Comments

nomeL2 votes

I know.

Erijian2 votes

After playing him on the PBE, just yup.

Absolute disappointment.

JusticePauldrons2 votes

I want to know what the logic here is riot, please give us a respone.

So Riot wanted Garen to be more offensive based rather than a tank so... they made it so his only form of damage now slows him so he can't damage people.

So Riot decided they didn't want to hurt his only form of crowd control that is countered by kiting or just staying out of melee range....so the nerfed it anyway.

Riot got rid of his stacking mechanic because it was hard to use... then gave his w a stacking mechanic again.

One of Garens main problems is being kitable, a problem somewhat alleviated by his W .... so they made him more kitable by removing it.

BlackEyesBlue1 votes

... ..."Kitable"

If it's ANYONE but Ashe or Vayne he just popped his Q Smashed their face!

That the best you got!?

JusticePauldrons2 votes

He is a melee champion with no crowd control. He is required to constantly stay close to the enemies in order to do damage. Now he doesn't even NEED to be hit by a slow, he just slows himself for moving towards people. Anyone can stop garen with a really simple strategy, stay away from the glowing sword. Anyone with slows, dashes, or range can harass or avoid him entirely. If you can't you are doing something very wrong.

BlackEyesBlue1 votes

First: I was referring to Garren as he is now, not what they're about to do to him.

Second: "Counterplay" Garren's Q used to just let him run up and silence you, Bay-Blade all over you, and then pop his ridiculous ult! If you weren't a champ with an escape or a stun, you just had to take it! Now his target is not so screwed! And you'll probably be able to "cancel" the slow by clicking around your target rather then on them... :P

JusticePauldrons2 votes

I already pointed out all the various forms of counterplay Garen has on his already resticted kit. Any form of crowd control counters him, the only time you should EVER be hit by a full Garen combo is if you

  • Ran right into him (why would you do that)
  • Don't have ANY form of crowd control
  • He flashed into you, something he can only do once every 300 seconds.

Now speaking of how he is now, I would like to point out that the slow is still there, it just requires that he use his E to go through minions. That is counterplay in itself as well as you can easily slow him just by leading him into any minion. Now you won't even have to do that, he will counter HIMSELF.

It is if you are moving towards your target, as in it works the same way as vaynes ult or commanders boots.

BlackEyesBlue1 votes

He's not ALWAYS spinning. Besides, picking up a ton of easy last hit money seems like a decent trade... :P

And his Q speed boost let him just pick his battle's too well! He ether ran down a target and left them silenced or got out of dodge if the tides suddenly turned! 1 v 1 he was a HUGE headache, made all the worse by how simple he was to play! ALL of his kit was glorified passives! And his Ult never has, and still doesn't fit his theme!

If he was a super tanky fighter who had to go in and out of combat to gradually wear down his opponent while managing his passive HP gain, that would be fine, but NO he gets a ridiculous targeted execute! Garren is an ANNOYING champion! He was one of the strongest duelists in the game as he stood! And EVERYONE is weak to CC! Heck, a lot of CC didn't even break his spin!

Riven Fiora Diana Nasus Gangplank Hecarim Rumble Vladimir JaxYasuo ... All common top laners who Garren could dominate! ALL more difficult to play!

Ser Garland1 votes

{quoted}

He's not ALWAYS spinning. Besides, picking up a ton of easy last hit money seems like a decent trade... :P

And his Q speed boost let him just pick his battle's too well! He ether ran down a target and left them silenced or got out of dodge if the tides suddenly turned! 1 v 1 he was a HUGE headache, made all the worse by how simple he was to play! ALL of his kit was glorified passives! And his Ult never has, and still doesn't fit his theme!

If he was a super tanky fighter who had to go in and out of combat to gradually wear down his opponent while managing his passive HP gain, that would be fine, but NO he gets a ridiculous targeted execute! Garren is an ANNOYING champion! He was one of the strongest duelists in the game as he stood! And EVERYONE is weak to CC! Heck, a lot of CC didn't even break his spin!

Riven Fiora Diana Nasus Gangplank Hecarim Rumble Vladimir JaxYasuo ... All common top laners who Garren could dominate! ALL more difficult to play!

Well yeah, Garen is the hero to anti tryhards. He was the hero we deserved.

Saint of SlN1 votes

it's funny how you listed mostly champs that should never be in top lane anyway. Yasuo, vlad, diana, and a few others get rekt up there, and that's how it should be. There's a reason the meta puts a certain champ in a certain lane. If Yasuo ever comes up to Garen-town, he'll soon be leaving with a new asshole. It's bad enough that all the recent changes have allowed champs like Fiora and vlad to do well well up top. Every lane should be different. Top lane is meant for bruisers and that's how I like it, and that's what makes it different. Playing a hulk like Garen, and getting my ass kicked by a furry midget with a blow-gun, or a french girl with a toothpick, makes me want to burn my house down.

JusticePauldrons2 votes

I am starting doubt whether or not you are serious here. Garen's single target execute is anything but ridiculous. It is a single target channeled ability that is only good for finishing a target off or stealing a kill. Even then other champions do it much better and with aoes, more range, multiple dunkings, truedamage. lower cooldowns or all of the above.

Ex: Riven Darius Jinx

I also don't understand how you can think his only engage which is also is only escape somehow lets him pick his battles too well. He has two option, either use it to go in and hope he doesn't get stopped by any form of crowd control, or use it run away.

How you have problems dealing with such a basic champion is a complete mystery to me because he has no option but to run straight at you and hope he doesn't get slowed, stunned, rooted, knockedback, knocked up, or simply can't catch a target. Maybe you should ward more or stick with your team?

But no, you are obviously right, I mean Garen is such a good champ I see him banned in every LCS/tournament match to date because he is obviously unstoppable and counters everyone right?

BlackEyesBlue1 votes

My statement was that its ridiculous to put such an execute on this type of character. As for counters, I was referring to the laning phase, not the entire game!

And "weak to CC" is NOT a character weakness. EVERY champion is weak to CC! His manaless, low CD Q breaks any slows, so if anything, he's less vulnerable to CC then a lot of the field!

An experienced Garen isn't going to run at an opponent, in plain sight, with hard CC alone if they have any chance of killing him!

And am I serious? Absolutely! I've watched SEVERAL of my favorite champs get gutted and have people tell me to suck it up when I tried to defend them! Let Rito do there thing! If this is really so crippling they'll fix him over time! He's not Evelynn after all! :P

Saint of SlN1 votes

yall are seriously over-estimating the speed boost on his Q. There are plenty of bootless champs that can outrun a garen with swiftness boots and his Q going. Or they can just wait a second and jump over a wall, or save their slow for after he has used Q, or blind him, or snare him...see the pattern here? Literally the only thing Garen can EVER do is run at somebody face first and smack em wiith his sword. Anybody who doesn't see the issue with that isn't thinking hard enough.

Erockandroll2 votes

{quoted}

I want to know what the logic here is riot, please give us a respone.

So Riot wanted Garen to be more offensive based rather than a tank so... they made it so his only form of damage now slows him so he can't damage people.

So Riot decided they didn't want to hurt his only form of crowd control that is countered by kiting or just staying out of melee range....so the nerfed it anyway.

Riot got rid of his stacking mechanic because it was hard to use... then gave his w a stacking mechanic again.

One of Garens main problems is being kitable, a problem somewhat alleviated by his W .... so they made him more kitable by removing it.

I would question their choice to make his E slow. On the same token though, they are probably under the impression that most skilled players would combined it with the speed up from his Q.

Riot didn't say anything about not touching his silence. They merely said they were not doing away with it.

Don't really see how Stacking mechanics is that hard of a mechanic. We have it on current Sion with his passive health. Though I might argue that said defenses don't stack nearly hard enough come late game.

But over all, the Juggernaut Rework was made in light of the new item reworks. So I would honestly save My QQing until after I see them with everything on the table. (and not take their stats at face value)

JusticePauldrons1 votes

{quoted} Don't really see how Stacking mechanics is that hard of a mechanic. We have it on current Sion with his passive health. Though I might argue that said defenses don't stack nearly hard enough come late game.

It requires you to kill 50 minions to get ten armor, meaning if your behind it doesn't help you and in order to get the maximum benefit from it you will have to kill 150 minions and that is only if you max the rank on it.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

It requires you to kill 50 minions to get ten armor, meaning if your behind it doesn't help you and in order to get the maximum benefit from it you will have to kill 150 minions and that is only if you max the rank on it.

If you don't think that's an attainable goal, you might want to work on your CSing.

Though again, I do believe that it may be under tuned. HIs 20% resistance amp is being replaced with the flat 30 at max rank of this ability. Which would be a nerf to his late game assuming that his bonus resistances are 150+. Which would likely happen more so with Armor than MR. So in the grand scheme of things. It looks more like a buff to his MR and a nerf to his Armor. But again, that's assuming you would stack that many resistances. Yet defense items are getting more HP focused.

JusticePauldrons1 votes

It isn't that is a hard to attain goal, it is an unrewarding one and one that screws you over in the situation you do fall behind. I would also like to bring attention back to the fact that it only stacks with ranks into courage, meaning that anything else is wasted until you level the skill, a skill that is usually the LAST thing garen players put points into,

frost shinigami2 votes

If garen's rework really is as ridiculous as people make it out to be riot won't go through with it. right...? RIGHT? pls tell me i am right

3TWarrior2 votes

the answer: gangplank

Saint of SlN2 votes

I agree with the OP. Garen sucks now. His ultimate was always kind of crap, shoulda been dealing true damage to everybody from day one. His W is garbage, and the nerf to his Q makes it totally useless. I'm sick of rito changing stuff all the time. Everything I learn about the game is useless a week later. Garen was my first champ. When I was new to the game champs like teemo and riven kicked my butt. Then I learned how to fight them and I could win consistently vs them. All my tactics depended on my silence. Silence riven just as she stuns me, stun wears off but silence is still going, spin for a bit then back off. Repeat one more time, ult, kill. The long silence was the only reason I could survive the fight with riven and her crazy damage. Hide in a bush until Teemo is close enough to silence so he can't blind me, blend his face off, ult for the kill. Now that's all over. Silence was literally the only way to avoid being blinded by teemo and rekt with poison. And my E... IS STILL CONSIDERED AN AUTO ATTACK!!! Why does blind make my E useless, it's an AoE, blind should not affect it. It can hit invisible enemies, so i obviously don't have to see my target. make up your mind already rito.

I'd also like to point out that in two separate matches, the target switching thing for my ult has screwed me. When ulting the villain, that true damage makes it actually useful, you can kill somebody that has about 25-30% health. But twice the villain has been switched between the time I pushed the R button, and the time my ult actually went off. This resulted in barely any damage to the enemy champ, and my untimely death.

Aside from the tenacity removal, the W has been buffed. The stacking thing will usually provide more MR and Armor than the previous percentage bonus. Maybe slightly less, but it's still not a huge change. The Tenacity removal is detrimental, however, as it makes Garen even more kiteable. idk if rito is just incompetent or just doing this stuff on purpose. Garen barely gets played as it is, and never on a pro level. Locking in Garen is a total crap shoot. He is so easily countered that matches are won or lost in the loading screen, and now this. Just delete him already and give me my money back.

agbudar2 votes

ok read before you do anything stupid

garen's damage got increased by a whole lot both decisive strike and spin are based on his total ad his base got increased by 1 per level and his range by 50 garen does a shitload more damage. and the items he can build now make him even more of a beast.

all garen's ive seen in game are no longer counter LESS bullies but gotta be a bit smarter and they are rewarded for it. albeit through simple means jungle garen is now viable as it makes his W scale much faster. they gave him diversity. one full clear of your jungle that should not really take long at all gives him roughly 10 armor/mr 12 if you count scuttlers. all the big ones give him 1 full armor after all gotta start W ofc but that should be eas as you should get lvl 2 fast enough with your first camp clear.

remember for him to get 30 armor OR mr he needed to build roughly 110 armor or magic resist. thats a about 2 items currently or thorns.

personally they could have dropped the vilian mechanic for infinite scaling but oh well.

Killyark11 votes

Damage wasn't problem of Garen before remaked. it was weak to cc, hard to reach enemy champ, stupid slow Q motion, short silence duration.

BlackEyesBlue1 votes

This my be OP, but here's my 2 cents.

Garren is as he stood, was a face roll, brain dead champion with stats and kit that countered an INSANE amount of top laners! Almost all of which use mana and/or required more skill them him! Riven among MANY others!

Now he's the "Beginner" champ he was always meant to be! Instead of "used by experienced players who want an lazy game" to bowl over everything that gets in their path!

Ser Garland2 votes

{quoted}

This my be OP, but here's my 2 cents.

Garren is as he stood, was a face roll, brain dead champion with stats and kit that countered an INSANE amount of top laners! Almost all of which use mana and/or required more skill them him! Riven among MANY others!

Now he's the "Beginner" champ he was always meant to be! Instead of "used by experienced players who want an lazy game" to bowl over everything that gets in their path!

U high mate? You just used an Oxymoron. First you said he was a brain dead champion to play, and now you're saying he's a useless beginner champion?

So you're basically acknowledging that its a nerf and now he has a higher skill floor and a lower skill cap.

BlackEyesBlue1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ser Garland,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OpvPry6Q,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-08-05T03:48:08.949+0000)

So you're basically acknowledging that its a nerf and now he has a higher skill floor and a lower skill cap.

They're both still pretty low! :P

I NEVER said this wasn't a nerf. It's an EPIC nerf!

And learn the definition of Oxymoron!

JusticePauldrons2 votes

Don't forget using Riven as an example of a champion that requires skill.

Saint of SlN2 votes

are you seriously mad that there is actually someone that can deal with riven?

BlackEyesBlue1 votes

Riven isn't THAT hard to deal with. :P

However, I respect her as a high skill cap champ; And the idea that she's completely shut down by.... Garen... Just not right. :P

Morgwynis1 votes

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1926206973/48701006?tab=overview

Im just gonna leave this Garen v. Riven Match here...

Zaghyr1 votes

It amazing me how many people live under a rock. IF ANY OF YOU actually looked at the riot posts that CLEARLY EXPLAINED THEIR REASONING FOR THE CHANGES then you MAY have an idea of what's going on. You say "give us a response" or "tell us WHYYYYYY," WHEN THEY ALREADY HAVE.

0w0laire1 votes

nah mate... Garen is so bloody overpowered right now it's unbearable. I played him a lot before the rework and play him a lot now and he is still a monster champion! (EVEN AFTER LIKE 5 NERFES) he just has a less impressive begin game (although you still kick ass begin game if you aren't brainlessly going ham). and the true damage... poof! damn, rito pls that shit is hot

GOL Undecayed1 votes

U r a very funny and confused Individual, "Useless" he says... [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

FantaWriter1 votes

So I was playing Garen and the Villain was Leblanc. When I attacked her health dropped below her passive level and she cloned. But the clone didn't have the Villain mark, only the real one. I thought that this might be just a counter, but my whole team can see it to. Is this to op or is it the few counters in the game for cloning. This works on Shaco and a few other too.

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