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Karma nerfs

Pornstar Elise··1 votes·757 views

I don't plan on writing a whole lot about this, but one key thing i have been noticing time and time again about Karma is how powerful her tether is in pro play. It is an ability that feels like no matter what you do, your doomed once its on you. I've watched countless pro games where she drops the tether on a target, then sprints herself and / or teammates to make sure it sticks, but even during moments of super quick reaction where you flash instantly, the tether STILL doesn't break, leaving you wondering why the hell you flashed in the first place and then dead.

It is an awful ability to play against because of how much leeway Karma gets before the tether actually breaks. I know there are cases where the karma flashes on you after securing a tether and in that case okay.. you got caught, but when you are the first to flash a max range tether instantly and the karma fails to predict your flash with a flash as well, you shouldn't be punished.

Maybe im reading too much into this, but she is a top tier support pick in lcs for a reason. It might be her 10 second sivir ult with a 400 shield, or massive poke damage... but I think this tether thing is just a bit overkill along with all of that. Karma

11 Comments

Blumpkin Nation4 votes

Karma's strong because they gave her a bunch of random ass copy abilities and slapped on big numbers and scalings. When they reworked her, they didn't complete her design. So she'll remain this way until she gets another rework.

IMO, her combo is so boring and unsatisfying. W/E/R/Q. You really, or rarely, use other functions when you want to nuke someone down. Her only risk is that she's mid-range and requires to be closer to her target.

She doesn't benefit from anything like she used to.

IxtaliKing4 votes

I'd definitely say she needs changes, her kit has been over simplified since her mantras were homogenised in 5.10 and she's taken a number of hard buffs to become relevant since then. She's even had her competition nerfed so that she could have her time in the sun, her 5.10 changes were a failure on many levels.

Maybe im reading too much into this, but she is a top tier support pick in lcs for a reason. It might be her 10 second sivir ult with a 400 shield, or massive poke damage... but I think this tether thing is just a bit overkill along with all of that.

It's the RE and RQ, not the tether. Her tether has a lot of counter play, she often has to use the whole of her kit to secure that root that only last 1 second until late game; at which point Karma has already fallen off a cliff.

Vanjie2 votes

Again, I say this . . . . Riot didn't address the main in issues in Karma's kit. They buffed her numbers to insane levels and that is why she is the way she is. At this point if they do decide to nerf her, they mass well give her the SMALL rework she was promised three years ago.

Nothing in Karma's kit makes sense for her character, gives her a identity, looks good, and is just . . . not a copy of something else in the game. Karma fans wouldn't mind having her passive, poke damage, ULTIMATE, tether, and R+E shield balanced or completely removed. That is only if Riot gives her the kit, VGU, theme, and identity they promised us three years ago. There is a Karma thread created every week for them to work on her, for almost three years now, and Riot has done nothing outside of a number buff to her kit.

Riot shouldn't nerf her for the sake of "Karma finally getting LCS time". Riot should nerf Karma and give the champion the work and dedication she deserves.

Hige1 votes

O.o Karma's skills are copies of something else in the game?

P reduces her ultimate's cooldown by auto attacking or hitting skills, Ezreal's is similar but it doesn't procs from his autoattacks, nor can he proc it several times per spell.

Q is an AoE straight skillshot, Only Jayce has this but the cadence on his is very VERY different than karma's.

W is a targetted tether that snares enemies, Leblanc's is a skillshot.

E is a shield/haste, there's nothing like this in the game unless you combine two skills from certain supports.

R empowers all your other skills, while very unique on it's own, the resulting skills are even more unique:

  • QR makes an area that explodes after a bit, the only similar spell is Leona's R even though there's no missile there and Vel'koz' E who does only one instance of dmg.
  • QW heals you at the beginning and end of the tether, there's nothing like this in game.
  • QE gives shields/haste to everyone hit in an area, the only similar thing in the game is Locket of the Iron solari.

Similarities occur in between champion skills, it's inevitable, but as far as karma goes, she's pretty unique on her own.

Vanjie5 votes

No. I will tell you what is wrong with her kit:

  1. Q and Q+R is blocked by anything that is first hit, which is why they have the cooldown low, slow, and splash hit for it. This is her only form of damage and they raised the numbers on it because of that reason. There is nothing else really in her kit that does damage and is the reason she has problems late game and can never really be considered a full blown mage.

  2. W and W+R is a Morgana ULT with a Fiddles drain. This ability doesn't make any sense for Karma at all. It really offers nothing to her identity or kit . . . . and should be reworked into something more original that isn't already in the game.

  3. E is not really a problem. Karma's E+R is a problem because it is a overpowered ability that no one asked for to begin with. Riot removed her old E+R for a more support mechanic, which took away her second damage ability. Karma's old E+R was very liked by the community, gave her a identity, and was removed because Riot was to lazy to balance it. The entire ability is Zilean's bombs . . . . which functions almost the same way.

Her current E+R is a Iron Locket of Solari with a Amulet Coin speed active. Yes. It is exactly like what I said it is.

You are right when you said there can be similarities for certain champions ability wise. The problem is Karma doesn't excel in any of them and that is why the champions and items that use it, people pick it for specific reasons. Karma doesn't have a niche, a good kit, a original kit, and it doesn't make sense for her character at all. She also has a rushed and incomplete VU. Riot has abandoned her for three years now.

If Riot nerfs her damage numbers . . . then her mage capabilities suffer . . . with the one damage ability she has right now. If they nerf her support abilities, her support capabilities suffer. Riot cannot win with this kit. Karma also suffers late game. There is a problem with her kit and there has been no work done on her since three years, outside of a numbers buff that did nothing for her.

Hige1 votes

I agree on certain things on your post but I think you have an idea about what we don't agree on, I won't be discussing those points because let's be honest, this discussion has been going for quite a while and the two Karma fan opinions can never find a middle ground, I think that's perfectly fine but I refuse to waste time and effort on the same thing over and over again, I will say though that yours is the more sounding one in these forums apparently.

I just wanted to add that Q isn't her only dmg source, W at max level does 260 + 0.90% dmg, that in terms on dmg is very high, compared to Morgana for example who's ultimate does 300 + 0.75AP twice but its cooldown is more than 5 times Karma's, not to mention that the duration of both tethers are different as well, Karma's is faster.

in comparison with Leblanc's, Karma's has less base damage, ratio and longer tether time but leblanc's is a skillshot and it's pretty slow to be honest.

All in all, the skill has it's place on Karma's kit since she has 3 main venues, damage, utility and defense, Q, W and E respectively, R is meant to increase the effect on these. I'd agree though that another type of CC could benefit her a lot more, I wonder what kind though.

MunchCrunchLunch2 votes

her cds are too low in my opinion. the only reason karma is strong because other supports were nerfed and they just buffed her numbers a little much.

Marshbouy1 votes

she has no instant CC so if an assassin jumps on your carry and bursts them through the shield, you are gonna have a bad time. She still totally needs those nerfs tho

Sightless661 votes

It is an awful ability to play against because of how much leeway Karma gets before the tether actually breaks.

You are literally the first person I've ever seen express this opinion. Usually, the tether draws a ton of complaints because the normal tether's break range is almost exactly the same as its cast range (the ult W does get a bit of leeway, but that means you can't R+E). It's very easy to escape from unless people are quite far up on the Karma. I also haven't really noticed this being a major factor in getting picks in LCS play. She generally has to close in quite close to get a catch with the W.

Karma is doing well, but I'm personally inclined to say that she is doing well despite her W.

Hige1 votes

I think her tether works just like every other tether, thing is, the range on these type of skills is pretty high, combined with her haste yeah it can be a bit overbearing but consider the following points:

  1. On its own, the snare is 1 second at lvl 1, Karma's w remains at lvl 1 until very late in the game, since her Q and E are better to harass and poke, this means that if Karma lvls W first, she'll lack either damage from Q or defense from E leaving her pretty vulnerable.
  2. It's just a snare, meaning that even if you can't flash out you are able to use skills and autos, on a gank yeah getting hit by this is certain death but while laning all you need to do is make sure that trading is at least even, don't just run, get snared and click away like crazy.
  3. Mercury threads diminishes the effectiveness of the snare AND all of Karma's damage, so consider buying a pair of those if she's a little too ballsy.
Nanuk Pihoqahiak1 votes

Her tether updates pretty quickly relative to something like Leblanc's. Leblanc's is atrocious.

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