Older champs lacking counterplay

Revenix·9/8/2015, 12:43:14 AM·1 votes·790 views

Has anybody else noticed this? Alot of the older champions seem to not have noticeable weaknesses in their kit compared to alot of the newer champs. It seems like if they are picked they are guaranteed to do something well and don't have a lot of consequences. For example

Amumu -he can be 0/30 but one r and the game is over Annie - see amumu Shaco - has not only a flash to get away but a stealth (on a decently low cd for such a good ability) so he can take ignite and not pay anything for it Garen - do i need to explain this

Basically what im saying is that alot of these champs you just have to deal with, you cant really "outplay" them like you can with newer champs, and they dont really take any mechanics. Im glad they're starting be reworked though so some outplay is added, but riot, please tone down the true damage item 3151

11 Comments

Critmaster Garen9/8/2015, 1:16:22 AM2 votes

the only one on that list is annie, as flash/tibbers doesnt leave much for you to do.

shaco is easy. you just have to get through his strong early game. teamfights are practically a 4v5 for the enemy team.

garen is kitable.

Avios19/8/2015, 12:51:45 AM2 votes

Shaco - Ward, Problem solved.

Annie - Look for her weaknesses and general counters. Long-ranged poke kills her.

Garen - Stuns, not slows. keep him away from mages. (Peel)

Amumu - Look for him. is he running at you? dodge his Q. etc.

50000000000000009/8/2015, 12:58:01 AM1 votes

Garen got a rework. Does he still count as an old champion?

Mecha MaIphite9/8/2015, 1:02:01 AM1 votes

Amumu - Dodge Q, QSS ult Annie - Poke her down, get banshee's/bit of HP and MR, locket Shaco - Stealth ward/Oracles, clone is identifiable, usually squishy Garen - Peel-able, kitable, really doesn't do much damage if you aren't the villain

Of course, some of them are really annoying to deal with, but they still all have counterplay.

junglerboy169/8/2015, 1:07:02 AM1 votes

Amumu Dodge skillshot, kite, rinse repeat. Very weak early game, easy to invade and shut down. It's not the same flashy counterplay newer champs have, but it's arguably more healthy. His ult is also only game changing if he lands it on several enemies and his team follows up, otherwise it's just a large AoE CC like so many other champs have.

Annie Her counterplay is a fair bit worse than Amumu's since it basically boils down to "stay out of range". it's hard to get her OOM, she has decent range and targeted poke. She is basically an anti-assassin, since she shuts down mobility really well and bursts squishies. take a bruiser and get some mercs or a BV and your set. I know counter building isn't true counterplay, but some champions have to have low counterplay in order to keep mobility creep and power creep in check.

Shaco Yeah he's kind of a mess of a champ, needs a rework, and has needed one at least for the 2 odd years I've been playing. He does have counterplay though if you are smart and don't let his mind games get to you (although that can be quite hard to do). If/when they rework him, they really need to recapture his mind game assassin play style while toning back the plain annoying aspects of his kit.

Garen Yeah he needs some problems addressed. right now, he has two things he's supposed to have, and one thing he isn't. He has a ton of damage and a ton of durability (good) but he is hard to kite and is in general overly mobile. They do have some MS nerfs for him on PBE which should address that to a certain extent, but I'm of the opinion he needs a little more taken off, especially considering that he has access to some of the best mobility items the game has seen in a long time.

Also, True damage needs to be a more unique aspect of champion design, it seems like it is just getting thrown onto kits for no real reason now.

Dreadlocks9/8/2015, 12:44:53 AM1 votes

Before strategy and positioning was a weakness, now its just a big cluster fuck of who has more mobility.

SaltyKracka9/8/2015, 4:02:50 AM1 votes

The thing about Shaco is that you have to basically outstat him, then hope he tries to fight you straight up. If he's ganking you, you have two choices; run away, or try to trade your life for his. You can hold out hope for a miracle countergank too, I guess.

If Shaco's using stealth to run, you kinda just have to ignore him. Boxes make chasing difficult, and a Shaco that's running is also a Shaco that's not doing anything useful.

ReshiKillim9/8/2015, 12:52:51 AM1 votes

Shaco has a good balance right now, actually. He's pretty squishy, squishiest out of all the ones you named. Not to mention he's actually overall the weakest of them. His ability scaling is 50/50, and has other flaws as well.

One of the things people don't know about Shaco, is that you just need to ward differently than other junglers. If you know how to ward against him (And to not overextend), his ganking power falls down by a lot.

Rather than Shaco being named here for a hard to counterplay stealth champion, I'd say Evelynn should be up there. Because she's got a semi-perma stealth until she gets into close enough range to leap on you and murder your face.