All these changes are so biased towards ADCs and little to no importance was given to other roles

DogIsGod·Nov 12, 2015·16 votes·729 views

27 Comments

BergkNov 12, 20154 votes

it wasn't called "the marksman update" for no reason....

DogIsGodNov 12, 20152 votes

How come when it was the AP update nothing but price increases was done?

iTziLLiRLNov 13, 20151 votes

all they did was nerf full ap squishy mages

YCitizenSnipsYNov 13, 20151 votes

Because AP is a type of damage and not a class of champions.

It wasn't called the Mage update, Duh.

iTziLLiRLNov 12, 20153 votes

TBH.. the ones that got hit the hardest are squishy mages, and super heavy focused tanks. Right now you need balance, be right in the middle, AP bruisers like swain/vlad are really strong. You can still go squishy mage but your items are delayed, you sacrifice tankiness for pure damage and getting that damage costs lots of gold. I probably wont buy rabadons on any tanky ap's right now. Need balance, pacing and not a '1 build fits all' game. Its definitely going to hurt the casual player. You need to plan out how you want to play now, planning if you'll win this lane or not and if you do, how you will push it or kill them. Cuz if you outplay someone yo ucould take 2 towers, or mini baron buff. but at same time playing aggro opens you up to ganks, so you could end up losing your tower. jungle is more important role than ever before. EXTREMELY important role this patch

RalanrNov 12, 20152 votes

Almost like it was a marksmen focused update. Shocking.

DogIsGodNov 12, 20154 votes

How come when it was the AP update nothing but price increases was done?

RalanrNov 12, 20151 votes

Because Riot is being more intensive in their class updates?

And Mages are varied than marksmen.

What update are you talking about?

DogIsGodNov 12, 20153 votes

What the actual fuck? I'm talking about the AP "itemization".

RalanrNov 12, 20152 votes

You say AP update, so I'm inclined to ask when this was.

Riots group champion updates have been focusing on updating both the champions and the items of that class. Hence why item 3742 and item 3748 were released around the same time as the juggernaut reworks. I'm assuming that this means they'll approach large updates differently, so AP itemization updates will come with a Mage update.

Are the items biased towards attack damage focused and ranged AD champions? Yes, that was the point. Beforehand they had a very limited amount of items that pretty much did the same thing.

item 3071 item 3031 item 3074 item 3748 item 3087 etc. All they really offered was attack damage and some form of sustain from hitting. AD items had no real variety (it gets to the point where people build two phantom dancers).

All ADC's could build were damage. They could build nothing else without losing viability. If Pantheon can't snowball, he starts building tanky so he can be useful in fights. If Jinx can't snowball, she keeps building AD because that's all she can really build. Jinx has to hope to get fed off of enemies more fed than her and have more complete item builds.

What did mages have? You could build AP while building armor item 3157 item 3025 . You could build AP and MR item 3001 . You could build for late game assurance item 3070 item 3003 item 3027 . You could make all your spells slow on top of getting a bunch of health and AP item 3116 . And let's not forget the ability to increase your total AP by 35% on top of getting 120 AP item 3089 .

Have the prices increased? Yeah, so has passive gold. Do the new items favor AD champions? Yes, that was the intention. Is Riot trying to remove mages, tanks, or anything that isn't a heavy AD damage dealer?

http://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i51/5/7/25/frabz-no-191096.jpg

They are core classes in the game. As always, the game fluctuates (hence what a meta is) on what is more powerful. Riot intended to give their ADC's something else beyond damage (Though all the items do increase offensive power. I can't deny that, but Marksmen are sadly not meant to be defensive since I can't imagine anything more aggravating than someone who can snipe you from a distance and is built like a tank).

So are they biased towards ADC's? Yes. But that was intended and Riot has succeeded in that. People will make similar complaints when they update mage itemization.

And they'll complain again. And again. And again. As always.

CasterGilgameshNov 13, 20152 votes

mages dont buy item 3025 and even if they did now its too late riot removed the ap on it

RalanrNov 13, 20151 votes

They could. That's the thing. It provided both AP and armor.

CasterGilgameshNov 13, 20152 votes

yet why didnt they build it?the only mage ever that ive seen build it is Blue ezreal

RalanrNov 13, 20151 votes

Because they've always had better options!

Mages tended to have better options. That was my point.

CasterGilgameshNov 13, 20152 votes

they can't afford to no go glass cannon because even with the armor the ad champions will just destroy them......

RalanrNov 13, 20151 votes

Yeah. Now.

I'm just arguing they've had great stuff in the past. Now other groups get some.

MordepoolNov 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah. Now.

I'm just arguing they've had great stuff in the past. Now other groups get some.

Reminds me of league of black cleavers.

Regardless of what riots focus was (ad marksmen and AD itemized) when introducing large scale changes to only one group fucks everyone else.

Example. Black cleavers release. It was the only item released and was so OP and stackable. Mages were pushed out of the game until a major Nerf and Armguard was introduced ( they didn't intend to make Armguard but with sever public outcry from mages they had too)

Now even the Masterys are. ADC focused. Buff everything not just one role. Riots making the same mistakes its just less obvious with more content

CreationFlawNov 12, 20152 votes

Rammus Malphite Taric I will become the super fabulous, rock hard, rolling stone.

tommyagunNov 12, 20151 votes

Jungle may be more important now but with the nerf to hunter's machete. Jungle diversity is pretty much gone with only a select few champs being able to clear camps and have at least a third of their health left. Jungle items now cost more gold and camps are harder to clear, give less gold and exp, even despite the monsters being nerfed slighty. Undo the nerfs to machete and it should be fine is what I hope.

iTziLLiRLNov 13, 20152 votes

nah thats BS... sure in the early game first 3-4 levels jungle is hard, but after first or 2nd back(First for most junglers with proper runes) the jungle is actually easier than before. they reduced the stats on junglebuffs. The reasonwhy you think its harder now is because the old machete gave 45 magic dmg over 2 seasons, and like 10 health per second, so you could kite it while the dot ticked down and saved health. Now its different, but far harder in first 1-2 backs. You need proper runes now, you can't be running 15 AD on champs with no attack speed steroids(its acceptable on lee sin) some champs need lifesteal to clear fast, or just 29% attack speed(Red+quints) on champs like Yi, nocturne etc. Tank junglers like nautilus can work well with life steal and/or attack speed also(Lvl up W not E) the jungle camps actually give more exp now(With machete) they nerfed the exp gain by 10, and machete gives 15 additional xp. Upgraded jungle item gives 30 additional exp, you're getting SIGNIFICANTLY more exp now than you did before. Junglers can gank more than sitting in jungle all game(They reduced armor and health on jg camps, and added MR to them)

tommyagunNov 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

nah thats BS... sure in the early game first 3-4 levels jungle is hard, but after first or 2nd back(First for most junglers with proper runes) the jungle is actually easier than before. they reduced the stats on junglebuffs. The reasonwhy you think its harder now is because the old machete gave 45 magic dmg over 2 seasons, and like 10 health per second, so you could kite it while the dot ticked down and saved health. Now its different, but far harder in first 1-2 backs. You need proper runes now, you can't be running 15 AD on champs with no attack speed steroids(its acceptable on lee sin) some champs need lifesteal to clear fast, or just 29% attack speed(Red+quints) on champs like Yi, nocturne etc. Tank junglers like nautilus can work well with life steal and/or attack speed also(Lvl up W not E) the jungle camps actually give more exp now(With machete) they nerfed the exp gain by 10, and machete gives 15 additional xp. Upgraded jungle item gives 30 additional exp, you're getting SIGNIFICANTLY more exp now than you did before. Junglers can gank more than sitting in jungle all game(They reduced armor and health on jg camps, and added MR to them)

Not bs at all. Yeah the first couple clears on pretty hard on some champs. After all if a g jungler can't get a good start in then what good are they. The changes killed a number of champs mostly ap champs. If a jungle champ cant clear 3 camps without a leash then that champ doesn't belong in the jungle or be very wary of invades. Even with the proper runes and masteries its still tough for a decent number of champs. Its geared more for non casual players who have time to learn the correct things to get. So, I feel for those players who do make up a good portion of the base.

iTziLLiRLNov 13, 20151 votes

That's the WoW mentality, simplify the game for everyone to understand. when all they have to do is use some brain. Seriously the jungle isnt as hard as people make it out to be, use some logic, some brain its very very simple. I will actually tell you right now. If you use a jungler, go attack speed runes, life steal, if you get benefits from AP, say healing on xin zhao, get AP flats or @18 on blues. Sustain. If you run rammus 20 armor and some health and MR... and you're like WOW THE JG IS SO HARD FUCK THIS PATCH. well.. you kinda set your runes up to fail...its like you want to suck. I was like you man I thought the jungle was ridiculously hard, but after lvls 4-5, the jungle clears rather quickly. I was used to ganking at lvl 3 or lvl 4, now I have to back to base instead of gank, but because of the XP gain, XP gain is EXTREMELY important to understand why it is important. When you understand this then you will understand why junglers are ganking so frequently after lvl 4-5. Life steal % is so OP the more ad/attack speed you have. you're essentially grinding this jungle in 20-25 seconds then focusing on ganking. ganking has NEVER been so easy before. Your role as a jungler is to gank, not farm the jungle. Once the jungle gets easy at lvl 4-5+(Cuz of life steal and magic dmg on hit, armor/health nerfs/exp buffs to monsters in jungle)you can spend 30% of time in jungle and 70% ganking. instead of 40/60 or 50/50 60/40(Lee sin's shaco's last patch) Now junglers can just GANK MAD CRAZY! ward, super control of map, baron buff, SO MANY Things to gain

tommyagunNov 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That's the WoW mentality, simplify the game for everyone to understand. when all they have to do is use some brain. Seriously the jungle isnt as hard as people make it out to be, use some logic, some brain its very very simple. I will actually tell you right now. If you use a jungler, go attack speed runes, life steal, if you get benefits from AP, say healing on xin zhao, get AP flats or @18 on blues. Sustain. If you run rammus 20 armor and some health and MR... and you're like WOW THE JG IS SO HARD FUCK THIS PATCH. well.. you kinda set your runes up to fail...its like you want to suck. I was like you man I thought the jungle was ridiculously hard, but after lvls 4-5, the jungle clears rather quickly. I was used to ganking at lvl 3 or lvl 4, now I have to back to base instead of gank, but because of the XP gain, XP gain is EXTREMELY important to understand why it is important. When you understand this then you will understand why junglers are ganking so frequently after lvl 4-5. Life steal % is so OP the more ad/attack speed you have. you're essentially grinding this jungle in 20-25 seconds then focusing on ganking. ganking has NEVER been so easy before. Your role as a jungler is to gank, not farm the jungle. Once the jungle gets easy at lvl 4-5+(Cuz of life steal and magic dmg on hit, armor/health nerfs/exp buffs to monsters in jungle)you can spend 30% of time in jungle and 70% ganking. instead of 40/60 or 50/50 60/40(Lee sin's shaco's last patch) Now junglers can just GANK MAD CRAZY! ward, super control of map, baron buff, SO MANY Things to gain

Maybe I don't use those champs and prefer to use other ones, but you can't deny the fact that there was more diversity in season 5 than in pre season 6

iTziLLiRLNov 13, 20151 votes

actually I can deny that... bcuz AD assassins weren't strong in jungle last season, youcouldn't AD jungle... unless it was like rengar(Even then that was pretty god damn hard) there were a select few AD junglers.. now this game Tank jungling is kinda bad... you can do it.. but you need specialized runes for it. you dont get 45 magic dmg every 2 seconds(Old machete) now its 20 dmg per hit and 8% life steal(It's screaming AD Jungler at you) AD caster/Assassins are essentially X factors in MOBA games. pros have talked about his ebfore, where typical team comps consist of peeling for ADC, etc... Assassins go into the back line and FK shit up. Assassins and any AD champs in general are strong right now. there is far more diversity now.. AD assassins/casters were very unusual outside of zed/yi. now there are so many options for jungling and mid lanes than standard AP squish mage mid/vs zed or w/e that's what diversity is about. not ok. tank jungler tank/bruiser top, ap mid all game 24/7 365. that's how it was last season now you can switch it up

tommyagunNov 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

actually I can deny that... bcuz AD assassins weren't strong in jungle last season, youcouldn't AD jungle... unless it was like rengar(Even then that was pretty god damn hard) there were a select few AD junglers.. now this game Tank jungling is kinda bad... you can do it.. but you need specialized runes for it. you dont get 45 magic dmg every 2 seconds(Old machete) now its 20 dmg per hit and 8% life steal(It's screaming AD Jungler at you) AD caster/Assassins are essentially X factors in MOBA games. pros have talked about his ebfore, where typical team comps consist of peeling for ADC, etc... Assassins go into the back line and FK shit up. Assassins and any AD champs in general are strong right now. there is far more diversity now.. AD assassins/casters were very unusual outside of zed/yi. now there are so many options for jungling and mid lanes than standard AP squish mage mid/vs zed or w/e that's what diversity is about. not ok. tank jungler tank/bruiser top, ap mid all game 24/7 365. that's how it was last season now you can switch it up

Yeah you could do that, you could pretty jungle with any champ in the game last season.

iTziLLiRLNov 13, 20151 votes

If you tell me what champs you liek to use I can tell you what runes are good for them. Runes are very important stop thinking "its the game and not me" "its the game and not me" and change your runes, optimize them to clear. you will enjoy the game a lot better