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Why is everyone acting so immensely rude with this new Fiora rework?

Sassmast3r··10 votes·2,577 views

Countless posts on here are horrendously rude to the designers who spent hours, if not days, if not weeks creating this update, all for everyone on the boards to say that it looks like shit and needs to be reverted. I'm fine with posts like these: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/pWgov9e7-why-an-aoe-heal-on-fioras-ult. This person kindly stated their opinion on the new rework, as well as what they didn't understand about her. Great! However, I fucking despise posts like these: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/cjRTA9tU-fioras-new-splash-art-sucks. How could you have the audacity to say something so absolutely offensive to Riot after they worked so fucking hard to bring you this reworked Fiora? I have absolutely no issue with you stating your opinion, but not in such an incredibly unkind way. If you ask me, this rework is FANTASTIC. It fixes many, if not all of the issues that I had with her before! So thank you, Riot, and all the designers whom put so much effort into this rework, for bringing us a new Fiora that isn't quite as frustrating to play against! Keep up the good work <3 and don't let any of these ill-mannered people frustrate you; tons of us are satisfied with what you are doing and encourage you to keep it up!

41 Comments

Arcane Azmadi10 votes

Because it's not a rework. It's another Karma job- they're deleting Fiora and replacing her rather than trying to FIX her. People don't like that.

Durzaka1 votes

There are ways to express your displeasure without being an asshat. Constructive ways. Polite ways. And most of all, helpful feedback. Not bitching and moaning at something you havent even seen in a game yet.

Arcane Azmadi9 votes

Riot don't listen to helpful feedback. They've proven this over and over again.

lB2kGRlc8y2 votes

Notice how quickly people were able to get a cosmetic change to Veigar, but how we still haven't heard anything about them finishing his 30% complete rework. Its like he was a pet project that had a couple hours invested and the second the asians brought him bot, they just launched the rework as it was.

Taredom1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arcane Azmadi,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OAFy7qLJ,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-07-22T01:47:46.968+0000)

Because it's not a rework. It's another Karma job- they're deleting Fiora and replacing her rather than trying to FIX her. People don't like that.

Let's analyze the problems that her kit has, most of it feels stale and is point and click (notice the trend of them steadily replacing these with skill shots, even Rengar had this happen.)

Her ult, dear god her ult, either you have substantial damage and can swing a team fight so heavily while not being counterable or you just do mediocre damage, feast or famine isn't good gameplay, neither is ANYTHING untargeteable, riot even went so far as to say that they hate the stealth mechanic in the game for this reason and during Rengars rework, they played around with removing it and seeing what they would have to do to do so.

My final point is that like a lot of champions, she has very binary play involved with her kit, there is one right way to play her and with the way that old Lunge worked, unless you had enemy minions behind you, if you got ganked (particularly with ult down) you were boned, a skill shot mobility move adds so much potential to her, not to mention her passive before was meh at best, where this new one is crazy strong.

Tl:dr Why would you want riot to try to fix something so binary and bad for the game? I understand, you paid for her, you paid for skins, she changed, shit changes in life, roll with the punches, this is for the best.

Cenobite Azaziel9 votes

"Give constructive criticism"

Karma Cassiopeia Olaf Gragas Skarner Search in the forums. REDs "oh we hear you...NOT". Remakes that changed everything people loved about the champions. Karma lost all her kit because of burden of knowledge, cassio turned into a machine gun, olaf... was olafed and then put back together ignoring all was said about his remake. The list goes on.

I guess the only remake people didn't care was Sion, since his kit was a horrible mess being 50/50 useful depending on the build.

Sassmast3r1 votes

Can I ask you to clarify on how Karma lost her kit on "burden of knowledge?" I'm ignorant and don't quite understand what that means lol. I actually main support, and use Karma quite often so I love hearing about what she really lost when she was remade.

Cenobite Azaziel3 votes

{quoted}

Can I ask you to clarify on how Karma lost her kit on "burden of knowledge?" I'm ignorant and don't quite understand what that means lol. I actually main support, and use Karma quite often so I love hearing about what she really lost when she was remade.

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2013/03/karmas-new-kit.html

When they say: "The effectiveness of Karma’s abilities relied too heavily on your teammates knowing all their nuances. " It's burden of knowledge. Every game has a burden of knowledge. KArma had the problem that a) her passive gave her insane AP when low health. CKarma could use a massive shield on a ally that would deal damage at the same time, andQ in a cone for health,. The lower karma was, the harder was to kill. If you played karma and your team disengaged when you were low hp, you lost a lot of her potential. (to balance out mantra and the passive her spells felt pretty weak full health)

About karma old kit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clMEu39Iydc

Sure. The new kit is good. But it resembles nothing the old karma.

Sassmast3r1 votes

THANK YOU SO MUCH I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR HER ORIGINAL CHAMPION SPOTLIGHT FOR THE OLD KARMA AND YOU HAVE FOUND IT I CANNOT THANK YOU ENOUGH I LOVE YOU. And thank you for the explanation haha, now I understand what you meant.

ilt8 votes

IDK, maybe it's because she looks like a 60 year old who kidnaps dalmations?

Cenobite Azaziel5 votes

Easy. Try buying a ferrari and receiving fiat cinquecento. Her old playstyle is no more. Everything was changed. And the first post about her rework was R reducing all cds to 0 and giving a charge system (blade waltz). There is nothing from the old fiora. Every single thing, even the free AD.

DanofDemacia3 votes

DOOD. VISualy idc. BUT EVERYTHING ELSE IS SHIT. She is going to be so broken and these designers are just plain bad. They deserve criticism. Maybe they'll stop making these stupidly op champs

Sassmast3r2 votes

Okay, so then create a post asking that they reconsider some of the changes, and even better yet, mention some of your own suggestions! Don't mention that everything is shit. Simply say that you are displeased with the recent changes, and that you think it could be modified to make it better.

DanofDemacia2 votes

{quoted}

Okay, so then create a post asking that they reconsider some of the changes, and even better yet, mention some of your own suggestions! Don't mention that everything is shit. Simply say that you are displeased with the recent changes, and that you think it could be modified to make it better.

i dont care enough to say anything other the fact that its shit. Even though riot makes horribly stupid decisions that could only come from apes they usually end up fixing it so im not stressing about it.

Yordle Xayah3 votes

Unlike Gangplank and MF who's kit are being upgraded... Fiora's kit has been completely destroyed. It is only natural that those that have been playing her for years feel betrayed. I'm not sure her identity is even there anymore.

Put the pretty horrible Splashart as the icing on the cake, and there's very little left of what some players love about Fiora. Yes, you can ask people to be more "constructive", but you must also realize that some people are really upset about this. Try to step in their shoes. All the uproar is good, or Riot would just do w/e even more than what they do right now.

Sassmast3r1 votes

Thank you for your feedback. I suppose I'm just not seeing how this "destroys" Fiora. I feel like what they're doing is making her fair to play against now. Her invulnerability has been an issue since the beginning; it's genuinely unfair and I don't know how invulnerability can ever be fair, other than Zhonya's Hourglass. I don't think that she's getting destroyed, but rather she's becoming more high risk high reward, versus how she was before. I guess my opinion doesn't have much meaning however, considering that I do not main, or even really use Fiora, and thus am not attached to her play style. I can definitely see how much it would frustrate those who are attached to her; my main is Nami, and if they ever did anything to her... I don't even know how I would react.

Yordle Xayah3 votes

Saying... "They are removing parts of her toxic kit" I feel is a bad argument, cause base around that, then half the champions should be entirely changed. Annie for instance has a lot of toxicity to her kit, but imagine if they changed her SO MUCH only so that she wouldn't be as toxic, that it would destroy her identity.

Think of your favorite champion, someone you've been playing for YEARS... then all of the sudden they announce the champion is being re-worked, and when you check the kit, you notice it's barely anything of what made you love the champion in the first place. You then go to the forums and find that Riot doesn't seem to respond to your constructive feedback... I'd be pretty upset too.

Just telling you... 5.13 ruined the way I've been building Lux since I started playing this game in late 2012. Granted, it was a minor thing... I can totally understand why someone would flip out over this Fiora fiasco.

Her identity is gone, of course a lot of Fiora mains are gonna go berserk.

Sassmast3r1 votes

Okay, well thank you for your input :)

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

Thank you for your feedback. I suppose I'm just not seeing how this "destroys" Fiora. I feel like what they're doing is making her fair to play against now. Her invulnerability has been an issue since the beginning; it's genuinely unfair and I don't know how invulnerability can ever be fair, other than Zhonya's Hourglass. I don't think that she's getting destroyed, but rather she's becoming more high risk high reward, versus how she was before. I guess my opinion doesn't have much meaning however, considering that I do not main, or even really use Fiora, and thus am not attached to her play style. I can definitely see how much it would frustrate those who are attached to her; my main is Nami, and if they ever did anything to her... I don't even know how I would react.

It probably doesn't help that a Rioter (I don't remember who exactly) either lied to us about Fiora's VU or was misinformed.

They said that Fiora's VU would be above someone like Kassadin's, but below Miss Fortune's, which quelled some concerns people had for the upcoming rework.

Now we have seen the VU, and we know that is complete and utter, fucking, bullshit.

People don't like being lied to, this Fiora VU was far more extensive than we were led to ever believe.

On the gameplay side of it, I don't know. All of her abilities but her ult have something resembling her previous kit's abilities within, and I'm so much more bothered by the VU that I can barely even spend a moment's thought on the update to her kit.

But imagine if someday, Nami got a VU, and she suddenly only barely looked like the old Nami. How would you feel about that?

Fiora was not Warwick, Mordekaiser, or Taric. I have not once seen or heard of someone clamoring for a VU for Fiora. So it raises the question of why, exactly, was she given one?

Womanixer2 votes

Q. Now utterly useless. No way to engage the enemy. W. Useless. The AD boost is gone. Nearly impossible to parry anything. E. Useless. R. A duelist heals the entire team? Passive. Useless. In team fights you can't just go around the target like that. Splash art. Ugly as hell.

callMeDaddY091 votes

tthis guy is oviously a serious fiora hater. I bought all of her skins she used to be my favorite champion now they destroyed her they made her into a little VITALS minigame that is so stupid. So plz before you react to peoples reactiosn check your own bias as you said "they are making her fair to play against" shes always been fair you have to be good and outplay your opponents to serve your purpose if not then you are out unless you farm so plz dont go saying things like that every champion is fair because they have counters exept teemo hes satan but otherwise

Sassmast3r1 votes

I honestly don't hate Fiora at all, I just don't support invulnerability unless it actually costs you something in return (i.e. Zhonya's hourglass). I am unsure why you are so incredibly offended by my statement, but I apologize for having offended you.

callMeDaddY091 votes

i am not at all offended but i would like you to put yourself in our shoes if riot destroyed your favorite champion which you had wasted money on and bought all its skins it is really sad it would make you almost want to quit league. but the problem is riot does not admit to its errors so they will leave fiora like this in contrary to its players belives.

Vistha Kai1 votes

You were deluded if you thought Fiora's ult will not be changed.

It's been spoken for months if not years that when Fiora gets an update, her ult will go to trash.

Yordle Xayah1 votes

You were deluded if you thought I thought Fiora's ult will not be changed.

I have no idea where you got that.

Vistha Kai1 votes

Fiora's kit has been completely destroyed.

Considering her basic abilities maintained their core elements, that's the only logical conclusion.

Yordle Xayah1 votes

https://reneugenia.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/ask.jpg?w=750

Not once, not once did I ever thought her current ult would not be changed.

lB2kGRlc8y1 votes

Are you really from North America?

Incognonymous3 votes

Because the rework is a fucking debacle, as many of the past have been. Then Rioters have the AUDACITY, the GALL to come in here and defend it with their ridiculous antidesign rhetoric. Don't piss on my head and call it rain, friend.

In the end, it makes no difference to me. A toxic champ grows more toxic. An old trick of Riot's that didn't impress me any of the times before.

Pyrocerebus2 votes

while I will say a couple of these threads are super negative alot actually give constructive critisim

Sassmast3r1 votes

Actually yes, and I acknowledge that. I've seen quite a few posts that have great, constructive criticism in them. And I'm very glad that some people are that kind. I'm just saddened to see so many people phrasing their opinions so rudely is all.

Knight Auditor2 votes

If I'm rude it's because I've gotten carried away. If I've gotte carried away it's because I'm angry. If I'm angry it's because Riot has done a terrible job at his.

Cindikle2 votes

Because some people, even if they're few, love her current kit. Even if it's poorly put together and toxic to exist to the point where they cannot change it without breaking something.

Her current kit is focused on pure damage. She's built to be a melee ADC. This usually mean strong as hell steroids and some gimmicky safety mechanic that makes her OP when ahead.

To offset this she is very easily ganked and has no CC. This doesn't make her kit OK. They can't just change things without offsetting this balance.

Thing people need to also remember is that to Riot the champion isn't always about the kit but the theme.

Fiora is a duelist. She's meant to be strong at focusing on a single target. But this is still a team game. She brings nothing to a team but damage. And she isn't reliant on the team to preform that damage. She just shows up and does damage. Maybe she dies, maybe you die. All depends on her judgment call. Not her team. Her new passive/R/W change this. She can peel. She can heal. She can focus on a hard to kill target. Her team can make preforming all of this easier.

Pro's

  • More flexible mobility. Q doesn't require a target. MS buff is tied to her passive instead of a cooldown ability/stacks. Q's CD is reduced by 60% if it hits an enemy. At max rank this puts it a 4s cooldown. While it doesn't get to double dash anymore, that's a really short cooldown. Current max rank Q is 8s. So overall it still preforms 2 dashes in 8 seconds. I feel this trade off is quite large in her favor. Being able to dash just as much and doesn't require a target while auto-targeting champions/champion with vitals shown in range.
  • Has CC. E has a slow, W has a slow and can stun. This and her Q change remove one of her largest weaknesses. Easy to gank.
  • Flexibility in damage. Her passive and ult %HP damage deals true damage. This wont compare to a full AD crit on a squishy. But it wont be far off without being hurt too much because the target got a Thornmail. Although this on is up in the air. Since %HP true damage isn't really great with balance in mind. And could make her fill a similar niche as Vayne.
  • Teamfight utility/sustain.
  • Passive heals on proc, base hp/5 increased. No more weak heal over time.

Cons'

  • Basic attack steroids gone outside of E which is only two attacks. And has a long CD in its early ranks.
  • Maintaining the same damage requires a mini game that the enemy can counterplay.
  • No longer can become untargetable survive teamfights. But now has to rely on her mobility, W and team to survive.
  • Reduced splitpushing. With the lack of steroids one of largest strengths is greatly reduced. While she'll still do it well, she probably wont be top tier.
  • Fewer steroids and %hp damage could turn her into a bruiser instead of being a fighter/ADC. While the %hp damage is heavily reliant on her AD to scale, this is only based of flat AD. Crit and AS don't matter. Between this and her E having a no crit/100% crit factor even makes this gap larger. Getting herself a Hydra/IE/LW into some more defensive items could prove to be her strongest build. This still gives her a lot of AD. Even CDR will become stronger on her. 40% CDR and max rank Q will be reduced to a 2.4s CD. She can proc 3 of he R's marks with Q alone.

Biggest issue is that there is a good chance she will no longer be a fighter/ADC. Since her kit doesn't require crit/AS to work. Currently everything she does is tied to her ability to basic attack. After the update only her Q will really matter.

Bold and Brash2 votes

Because it looks bad, like really really bad.

JustMyBassCannon2 votes

Because the boards are pretty much a spawning pool of zerglings hatred. All the hive-mind players that don't want Riot to change something for no reason other than because they don't want it to change colonize throw half a dozen threads in the boards, voicing their distaste for any choice Riot makes ever.

Actually, I think I'm insulting the Zerg. At least they would accept replacing flawed designs.

Lynxonyx2 votes

Because it looks bad, and they should feel bad.

sheldonbunny2 votes

I'm not a Fiora main, but i've played her a fair amount for over a season. Just like with Veigar, I never had issues when I was the one versus one. If they outplayed me, they outplayed me.

I was aware they were going to mess with her kit, likely the ult completely scrapped. I just don't like the mini game nonsense they decided to go with. Thematically it may work, but they ramped up her skill level much higher now. And no, she never was a point and click before that tired line gets dragged out. Besides her ult you had to know when to go in and when to get back out without getting yourself torn apart. 1v1 was much easier, but in team fights you had to pick your targets and moments carefully.

I felt her playstyle did fit a fencer. I can see how the mini game passive can fit it as well, but I highly doubt most are going to be able to pull off those full ults. I do actually like her W now. The idea of bouncing back hard CC amuses me. I will miss tearing down towers with her E.

As for her visual update, I do not like it. Specifically her Headmistress Fiora skin since it's what i've seen the most on the boards. Her physical dimensions are off. Her waist is too thin compared to her hips and thighs. Her forearms are larger than her biceps. Her hairstyle is a downgrade. Even the lace on her tights looks a smidge better on the old model. I just feel that whoever worked on it could have down a much better job.

Kotex1 votes

What do you honestly expect from the league of legends community?

Vicvictorw1 votes

Hey, welcome to the LoL Forums.

Sorry, Boards.

Enjoy your stay.

MohawkBird1 votes

Because people like to complain every time something changes, even if it is for the better. Also the fact that people like to nit-pick every single visual change in the game.

"OMG, Fiora has a pink streak on her hair instead of red! WTF RIOT!"

Like who gives a fuck about the color of the streak on her hair.

Binxy Prime1 votes

Cause its poop

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