shaco is a toxic champion because he promotes proper play and punishes poor play

Koldheartedjsp··6 votes·1,932 views

but...

is that really enough of a reason to call him "toxic."

18 Comments

ReshiKillim6 votes

Nope. A Shaco main here and I do say.

If there are champions with toxic kits, Shaco's is the least of them if toxic at all. His kit has a very high skill cap, as much as a lot of people tend to disagree until they actually play him.

People are generally salty about having their summs and ultis baited on a clone and dying because of it.

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

Nope. A Shaco main here and I do say.

If there are champions with toxic kits, Shaco's is the least of them if toxic at all. His kit has a very high skill cap, as much as a lot of people tend to disagree until they actually play him.

People are generally salty about having their summs and ultis baited on a clone and dying because of it.

High skill Cap my ass, I bought him 2 and a half years after starting this game, and my first game I carried

Cindikle1 votes

Strong sample there.

Could have anything to do with your team being able to make up for what you lack. Or maybe your mind is just in sync with this kit and it comes natural to you. Or the enemy was bad. Or two and a half years ago he had quite a few nerfs undone and is a shell of that time.

ReshiKillim2 votes

He does have a high skill cap, but most people look it over. Clone micro and strategic box placement takes a lot of skill and knowledge, not to mention takes a lot of learning and practice.

The general community simply isn't used to dealing with Shaco, which makes the skill requirements low at lower tiers. Warding against a Shaco is a bit different than warding against other junglers, (I don't just mean pinks, but where to place wards if you don't want to be ganked) which is something a lot of people don't seem to know.

And if you don't want to take my word for it, ask the Diamond to Challenger Shaco mains.

Support Evelynn1 votes

{quoted}

Nope. A Shaco main here and I do say.

If there are champions with toxic kits, Shaco's is the least of them if toxic at all. His kit has a very high skill cap, as much as a lot of people tend to disagree until they actually play him.

People are generally salty about having their summs and ultis baited on a clone and dying because of it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Man all Shaco mains are delusional as fuck.

There aren't enough proper tools to help players deal with stealth in this game. Until Riot does this (like with the mandrake ward) all long stealth champions will be toxic by design.

ReshiKillim2 votes

There are ways to counter play Shaco and there does exist a counterpick as well.

I'd agree that Twitch is toxic because he sprays you with disease inducing toxic waste filled fluids from the sewers, but that's not the point. The stealth champions are not as bad of a problem as a lot of people make them out to be.

It's just that there's a large portion of the community that hasn't learned to deal with them. As well as a large portion that hasn't learned to not overextend. Because that's what makes stealth based gankers super strong. People overextend and don't see them coming, thus causing themselves to die.

Cindikle1 votes

He gives up a lot for his stealth.

Q is very weak in terms of damage till you get a few ranks. E is his only real damage move in a gank.

This is why ignite/smite is generally what he runs with. Because he alone does not do enough damage to be a threat. Those who take him in solo lanes and win do so by getting them into traps or slowly poking them down with E.

We lack tools for stealth because that's the point. But good warding is so heavily put into how league is played that anyone who can bypass normal warding needs to have their kit VERY balanced otherwise they're OP useless. There is little gray area.

Toa Innodence3 votes

as a non-shaco main, I gotta say... you're f***ing right.

the reason people hate a good shaco is because you have to respect a good shaco. more than any Riven player.

part of his kit is playing mind games and that's nothing that can be buffed or nerfed. it just shows excellence in strategy and comfort in mechanics and optimization the player can utilize, without engaging in toxic behavior through chat.

so keep making us rage. because, honestly, if you didn't? you wouldn't be a good shaco player. good luck in queues.

Jamaree3 votes

Proper play my ass. There is nothing proper about putting down three wards only for him to come over the one wall you didn't ward. Oh look, I warded both sides of the river right at the path to see inside and but the third ward in their wrath camp, I can't get...oh wait, he hopped over MY wraith wall and ganked me....fun times :I

I don't want Shaco nerfed, but the less Shaco, the better, that being said, I need to show Workshop Shaco a picture.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

Proper play my ass. There is nothing proper about putting down three wards only for him to come over the one wall you didn't ward. Oh look, I warded both sides of the river right at the path to see inside and but the third ward in their wrath camp, I can't get...oh wait, he hopped over MY wraith wall and ganked me....fun times :I

He can lane gank you and reach you from stealth.. Wardin is useless vs shaco

Also he can gank from his river side.. over top of that tiny wall

Cindikle2 votes

How is this different than Zac, J4, Lee Sin, Amumu and Kha'Zix? All of these have a form of long range gap closing that can be used from areas you may not of expected. Only difference is that they're decent upon your champion is more telegraphed than a poof of smoke. But all of them will easily out damage Shaco.

Throw in champions with good ults that go with this and you'll find champions that tend to be more toxic than Shaco by quite a bit. Vi is a monster in assassin metas. While bringing damage and mobility of her own.

Jamaree1 votes

{quoted}

How is this different than Zac, J4, Lee Sin, Amumu and Kha'Zix? All of these have a form of long range gap closing that can be used from areas you may not of expected. Only difference is that they're decent upon your champion is more telegraphed than a poof of smoke. But all of them will easily out damage Shaco.

Throw in champions with good ults that go with this and you'll find champions that tend to be more toxic than Shaco by quite a bit. Vi is a monster in assassin metas. While bringing damage and mobility of her own.

Because they don't do it while invisible.

Cindikle1 votes

While often having more utility, damage, tankiness, mobility(Q is a long CD if you sit on it) and CC. Some of them have all of that.

  • His hard CC is very limited. A minion could trigger it. Left his his slow and red buff.
  • His burst is Q+E. Neither is very impressive and building for one will weaken the other.
  • His mobility is his Q, which has an 11s CD at all ranks. And this CD does not start till you use it. So it could last up to 17 seconds even at max rank. CDR does not counter this extra 6 seconds. You have to attack or use an ability to reset it to use it again.
Jbels1 votes

The only toxic thing about Shaco is his Blink that's also a stealth. It gives no indication of which way he went, it's a free flash (Infact it's a better Flash, people literally feel safe enough to not even take flash on him) and the counterplay to it is negligible. Towers, pink wards, red trinket.

ZACKandATTACK1 votes

The reason that I consider Shaco's kit toxic is because it is completely based on cheese. Shaco becomes useless if he doesn't snowball early, but if he does then he becomes very oppressive. His whole early clear determines how his game is going to go.

Faded Lich1 votes

As someone who hasn't even played Shaco but has played against plenty: You all salty mother fuckers. Seriously, he's squishy as hell, easy to catch out and if you're playing safely, like you should be with any gank-centric jungler, especially someone like Shaco (or eve for the matter) then there is not much he can do to you. If he was any place near as broken as you'd say, he'd actually be picked lol. But no, his tricks are good against bads and noobs, once you learn his play book he is toast.

L2p guys, seriously.

Angry Monster1 votes

not even bronze

Nameless Voice1 votes

Who calls Shaco toxic? He's a perfectly fine champion to play against compared to a lot of other (much more popular) champions.

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