Can we let Ludens Echo proc on GP's Q?

LittleBlast·Mar 11, 2015·21 votes·3,924 views

Yeah, Ap GP New meta if this happens. Also i simply feel like it should work.

36 Comments

DisasterSolaMar 11, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Ap GP New meta if this happens. Also i simply feel like it should work.

AP GP is already one of the most powerful sustain monsters we have. You just gave him waveclear with ludens echo.

#1000HPheals

destosMar 11, 20151 votes

ludens echo cannot be procced by gps q only his r

ZmuecatMar 12, 20151 votes

Void cannon balls of death?

THIS IS THE WORST and/or BEST DAY EVER!

OyddAWqJ5rMar 12, 20152 votes

AP GP uses Statikk Shyv either way so it's essentially the same.

CrettMar 12, 20154 votes

do we WANT gangplank to be viable?? HE ISN'T FUN to fight lol TELL ME he's fun to fight anyone tell me they had a blast fighting gangplank

JedenVojakMar 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

do we WANT gangplank to be viable?? HE ISN'T FUN to fight lol TELL ME he's fun to fight anyone tell me they had a blast fighting gangplank

I've never found him to be that overbearing.

Remlap1223Mar 12, 20152 votes

You obviously never played a Gangplank top running crit runes. That was the original in game cheese. Gangplank is the original champion to be Olaf'd for that reason. All Gangplank has to do is land a lucky crit in lane on his Q, and all of a sudden you just lost your lane.

JedenVojakMar 12, 20153 votes

{quoted}

You obviously never played a Gangplank top running crit runes. That was the original in game cheese. Gangplank is the original champion to be Olaf'd for that reason. All Gangplank has to do is land a lucky crit in lane on his Q, and all of a sudden you just lost your lane.

He's running a pretty high opportunity cost at that point, since crit runes will not give you the kind of flat benefits than other runes. In general he won't get as much benefit as other types of runes that are more reliable.

Sorry... but you can't convince me something is bad by the presence of crit for I'm a prophet of the RNG. Simply put, if he's running crit runes, then it's not lucky - he made the offerings to the RNG and was rewarded for his devotion :D

Remlap1223Mar 12, 20152 votes

Ah the good ol' circle of jerk is in effect once again. The forum community is as short sighted as they are irrational, downvoting anything that dares challenge their motives. Whatever, if you enjoy getting bullied out of lane because RNGesus favored the other opponent in a one in 50 chance of his Q doing 200% damage instead of the normal 100%, a game like League probably isn't for you, since they've completely done away with rune itemizing RNG that's viable.

The fact of the matter is that the "opportunity cost" you claimed he had, was non-existent. His Q already is guaranteed harass once you get in range, and if he crits you, well, that value just skyrocketed. It's the same reason that Ashe's passive is bullshit, because it serves literally just as a means for you to crit something once you return to lane, and at level one where you can cheese it to the max on an enemy champion.

But once again, the forum community has proven that logic isn't their strong suit. I'll see myself out.

JedenVojakMar 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Ah the good ol' circle of jerk is in effect once again. The forum community is as short sighted as they are irrational, downvoting anything that dares challenge their motives.

???

I'm not sure where all this hostility is coming from, but you should try and calm down.

Whatever, if you enjoy getting bullied out of lane because RNGesus favored the other opponent in a one in 50 chance of his Q doing 200% damage instead of the normal 100%, a game like League probably isn't for you, since they've completely done away with rune itemizing RNG that's viable.

Should I attribute this to the "anti-crit circle jerk?" :)

If I get crit once on someone who has 2% crit in their runes, that's just my bad luck I guess.

The fact of the matter is that the "opportunity cost" you claimed he had, was non-existent. His Q already is guaranteed harass once you get in range, and if he crits you, well, that value just skyrocketed.

Q guaranteed harass? As opposed to say, any ranged champion in the game?

I mean, why is Gangplank's Q bad, but Quinn's or Teemo's auto attacks somehow okay?

It's the same reason that Ashe's passive is bullshit, because it serves literally just as a means for you to crit something once you return to lane, and at level one where you can cheese it to the max on an enemy champion.

Huh, you're the first person I've seen call Ashe's passive bullshit.

Really most of the threads I've seen have all come from people saying that Ashe's passive is underpowered, and it runs counter to what an ADC should be doing which is sustained damage through constant auto attacks.

I will say that anyone who refers to something as "cheese" has left the room of intelligent debate and has resorted to mud slinging.

But once again, the forum community has proven that logic isn't their strong suit. I'll see myself out.

Making a hyperbole ridden post dismissing people who disagree with your views, and then complaining that the community is illogical...

Remlap1223Mar 13, 20151 votes

I'm not sure where all this hostility is coming from, but you should try and calm down.

Idiots like you who downvote anyone who disagrees with you, and the idiots in the echo chamber that follow suit. Stop that shit, and I'll calm down.

Should I attribute this to the "anti-crit circle jerk?" :)

If I get crit once on someone who has 2% crit in their runes, that's just my bad luck I guess.

That's not bad luck, that's bullshit.

Q guaranteed harass? As opposed to say, any ranged champion in the game?

I mean, why is Gangplank's Q bad, but Quinn's or Teemo's auto attacks somehow okay?

First things first, I never said Teemo's auto attacks were ok, they're not, and I'm fundementally against DOT magic damage on auto attacks without an ability cast (Kayle's E, Koggle's W, Twitch's AA's are fine, they're gated well.) Second, with Quinn, you know when you're about to get your shit wrecked when Valor jumps on you, and can position yourself appropriately.

As for GP, here's the scenario:

Jax You look like you could use a little brass in your diet there GP...

*goes all in on a GP at 50% health, something Jax could normally survive.

Gangplank You look like you could use a little.... RANDOM CRIT IN YOUR DIET MATEY!

Jax WHAT? GWAHHHHH!!!!

YOU HAVE BEEN SLAIN!

It's the same reason old Sion's passive was complete BS. You'd go all in on him, thinking you're safe, his passive procs on all 3 hits you land on him, oh shit I'm screwed. No skill involved, just RNGesus pimp slapping your sorry ass.

Huh, you're the first person I've seen call Ashe's passive bullshit.

Really most of the threads I've seen have all come from people saying that Ashe's passive is underpowered, and it runs counter to what an ADC should be doing which is sustained damage through constant auto attacks.

I will say that anyone who refers to something as "cheese" has left the room of intelligent debate and has resorted to mud slinging.

Bullshit =/= overpowered

Also, I'd encourage you to put your penis away and stop stroking it in the fap circle with all of the other people that frequent these forums and think about how a guaranteed crit on the first auto attack you launch could possibly be bad.

Also, I don't just throw around the word "cheese" like it's Kalista's spears with Runnan's Hurricane (even though Kalista's Martial Poise is cheese). I use it specifically for the biggest bullshit tactics that has such little counterplay that this game has to offer: Ashe 's passive on a champion auto attack, Fiora 's ultimate, old {{champion:105}'s} E, old Gangplank 's Q running full crit runes, Kalista in general, old Kassadin in general, Leblanc in general, LeeSin in general, old Lucian in general, AP MasterYi , old Nidalee in general, Poppy 's ultimate x9000, old Riven , Shaco in general, AP Sion , old Soraka mid lane, Teemo in general, AP Tristana , Tryndamere in general, Volibear 's passive, health scaling to AD, and fling with MS boost, Yorick in general x9000, Zed 's unlimited poke.

OyddAWqJ5rMar 12, 20152 votes

Overbearing =/= not fun. He's saying GP simply isn't fun to fight. Nothing but a statball champion. Only "fun" thing is his CC removal interactions.

PhifeMar 11, 20153 votes

why wouldn't it work?

LittleBlastMar 12, 20157 votes

His q axts as a melee basic attack

PhifeMar 12, 20153 votes

what? it applies lichbane and spell effects... (on hit effects)

CrettMar 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

what? it applies lichbane and spell effects... (on hit effects)

it applies lichbane because lichbane is an on-hit effect. for all intents and purposes, it's a normal basic attack. no spell effects are applied, which are necessary for luden's echo to take effect

OJ191Mar 12, 20153 votes

{quoted}

what? it applies lichbane and spell effects... (on hit effects)

because lichbane and on-hit affects are applied on AUTOATTACKS.

Echo only applies on spell damage, which parley doesn't count as.

maikokkMar 12, 20151 votes

i think he means that sheen is procd after an ability, which means that sheen knows that q is an ability.

Auz the RipperMar 12, 20151 votes

But his Q doesn't deal spell-type damage, which is the problem

maikokkMar 12, 20151 votes

ok, so there are a few nuances here.

sheen is available upon casting an ability, and procs "on hit"... so when GP casts his Q sheen is activated, and when it lands, it procs as an "on hit effect"

echo's damage isnt activated on casting an ability like sheen is, instead its activated "on spell effect" and since GP's q applies " on hit effect" instead of "on spell effect" it wont apply echo.

echos charging system, is on spell cast... so his q will charge echo like it will charge sheen, but will not proc it.

this basically means.... if it works with liandries, rylias, and spellvamp (on spell effects) it will work with echo

so oddballs like jax and kayle can actually use echo with an empowered auto attack!

junglerboy16Mar 12, 20151 votes

Spell effects are basically the opposite of on-hit effects. Lich Bane, Trinity force, static shiv, lifestyle, and Hydra AoE are all on-hit. Rylai's, Liandry's, Spellvamp, and now Luden's are all spell effects, and only apply on spells.

GP's Q is coded as a Basic melee attack, and procs on-hit effects since it is not coded as a spell.

test accountMar 12, 20153 votes

Get in line, m8. Pix is first. Lulu

Remlap1223Mar 12, 20153 votes

This wouldn't just make AP GP viable, it would make it the Meta build. Have we learned nothing from AP Yi? His rework can't come soon enough. Hope it's a Nidalee style rework and not a Gragas style rework.

destosMar 11, 20152 votes

It's also important to note that this works on spell hits, not basic attacks!

sadly this kills it, believe me i've been wanting this to happen but unfortunately GP's q counts only as a basic attack with no spell hit portion as it does not proc spell effect items such as spellvamp

StoningtonMar 11, 20152 votes

This would be so awesome. It would totally make AP GP viable. Waveclear is his biggest weakness.

Support EvelynnMar 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This would be so awesome. It would totally make AP GP viable. Waveclear is his biggest weakness.

Nah this wouldn't make him viable tbh. The reason statikk is so good is because of the crit, this is for sustained DPS on really heavy spell casters like Cass or Evelynn.

StoningtonMar 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Nah this wouldn't make him viable tbh. The reason statikk is so good is because of the crit, this is for sustained DPS on really heavy spell casters like Cass or Evelynn.

Well, that's some pretty terrible theory crafting. The main reason you get shiv on GP is to amp his poke; not only with crit but with magic damage so the enemy can't itemize against it. AD GP doesn't have a problem with waveclear because he builds a shiv first. Even if he didn't, he wouldn't have as much of a problem with waveclear because he's AD.

In any event, I'm talking about AP GP's waveclear being one of the worst in the game and if this item procs on his Q it would serve the same function as shiv in hybrid damage but moreover increase his waveclear.

LittleBlastMar 12, 20152 votes

Question, How do you guys build Ap Gp, for me its item 3040 item 3115 item 3100 item 3157 item 3089 Abd Ludens echo. I gey massive ap and ~500 MS

JJ H0GMar 12, 20151 votes

AP GP is more of a sustain tank than a burst mage. i'd call him an AP bruiser at best.

My Build: item 3100 / item 3025 , item 3065 , item 3143 , item 3157 , and Luden's. I'd probably take boots for a while though, since I won't be getting both MS items right away.