Not trying to be mean or anything but WHY IS GRAVES SO DAMN STRONG?

warlordekko·Aug 27, 2018·32 votes·14,780 views

Literally, i was playing some ryze in mid, with tabis and zhonyas, and apperantely a graves with 3/5/4 127 farm at 20 minutes can one shot you with only two items, stormrazor and duskblade. (+Dark Harvest) Why is graves so damn strong? He wasn't even fed! Just with duskblade and stormrazor, he was able to one shot me, 800 HP.

(I must admit that i'm a scrub, but how exactly do you deal when someone literally just autos you and you die.)

56 Comments

Beatrice fallsAug 27, 201817 votes

slams door

WHO THE FUCK CALLED ME

item 3095

warlordekkoAug 27, 201811 votes

https://imgur.com/a/a5zEfu9

KrullyAug 27, 201813 votes

stormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskbladestormrazor and duskblade

hmmmmmmmmm I wonder why

SSmotzerAug 27, 20185 votes

Cause he's got a shotgun. You know how much power one of those babies is packin? Well... distance is a factor. At a far enough range it's more or less a inaccurate BB gun.

warlordekkoAug 27, 20183 votes

Since when bilgewater releases such powerful shotguns to champions.?

WiccanBKaplanAug 27, 20185 votes

MF's guns aren't weak by any merit GP also hurts... Guess its a Bilgewater thing

warlordekkoAug 27, 20182 votes

damn u bilgewater

SSmotzerAug 27, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Since when bilgewater releases such powerful shotguns to champions.?

Well, it's Bilgewater, they are mostly anarcho-libertarians, so no real gun laws to speak of.

DolasaurAug 28, 20184 votes

Just with duskblade and stormrazor, he was able to one shot me, 800 HP.

(I must admit that i'm a scrub, but how exactly do you deal when someone literally just autos you and you die.)

First recommendation would be to try to have more than 800 max hp 20 minutes into the game. Ryze can achieve this buy hitting level 5 or purchasing two Ruby Crystals. The first method is highly recommended. After a lot of experience, you may even be able to achieve level 6 by this point. Good luck!

BigFBearAug 28, 20181 votes

Rofl

CrimsonReaperXAug 27, 20183 votes

You haven't even seen the worst of it. If he got a item 3812 he'd be able to tank more damage than the actual tanks in this meta.[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

wildfox99Aug 27, 20183 votes

item 1412 + item 3046 + item 3812 = 62% damage reduction if you are a burst champion (DD dps can be easily ignored with lifesteal)

EschetonAug 27, 20182 votes

Because he has no cc. So he has extra dmg.

lightwolf1030Aug 27, 201825 votes

Smoke screen is cc Nearsight and slow

EschetonAug 27, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Smoke screen is cc Nearsight and slow

I see, that's why it proc's Aftershock. My bad.

BonipherusAug 27, 20187 votes

he's ranged, very mobile, and tanky with true grit and lifesteal. also smokescreen is situationally extremely strong cc for its vision denial. he can't have everything. something's got to give.

LTK KoRoAug 27, 20182 votes

he isn't very mobile. He have decent mobility, but his dash is super short and it have a big cooldown. And he doesn't get any lifesteal in kit, idk why you have listed it. And current true grit gives him armor only, so he isn't tanky against all enemies.

His kit is pretty balanced, but he might have a bit too much damage.

IllabetheAug 28, 20184 votes

lmfao his dash resets.

Quickdraw's cooldown is reduced by 0.5 seconds for every pellet impacting an enemy.

Each shot shoots 4-6 Pellets, so if 3-4 hit, that's 2 seconds off per shell, and most Graves are building in CDR. He can get the cooldown down to about 4-5 seconds reliably when a skilled player.

Crit strikes that hit every pellet can almost entirely reset the cooldown in 2 shells shot (12 hits, is 6 seconds off, and on 40 % CDR the base is 8.4 seconds. That leaves 2.4 seconds between dashes.

RanmaruAug 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

he's ranged, very mobile, and tanky with true grit and lifesteal. also smokescreen is situationally extremely strong cc for its vision denial. he can't have everything. something's got to give.

whaaa built in lifesteal?

BonipherusAug 28, 20181 votes

not built in. but he builds lifesteal and with his insane damage and true grit he becomes a bit of a drain tank.

RanmaruAug 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

not built in. but he builds lifesteal and with his insane damage and true grit he becomes a bit of a drain tank.

using that logic we can say heimir has lifesteal.

VerxintAug 28, 20181 votes

I think it's funny how Graves is ranged and has a better defensive buff than many melee champions while also being more mobile and doing more damage

Anu3isIIAug 27, 20183 votes

If your definition of CC is "things that proc Aftershock", then you clearly underestimate non-immobilizing CC, like Blind, Silence and Nearsight (which is a combination of both in some situations), Slow, which is clearly the most popular form of CC in this game that also heavily counters deadly immobile champions (Juggernauts, Mages in general and some ADCs), and Grounded effect, which has been slowly introduced to counter mobility overall.

VerxintAug 28, 20183 votes

As a Yorick player I approve of this logic. I don't have anything that triggers aftershock, so I don't have CC. Now make my shovel do more damage

French CourtesanAug 28, 20181 votes

Nasus has no CC bois, teemo doesnt have CC too bois, GP doesnt have CC, I would really use some more damage on my gp then.

ned the kledAug 29, 20181 votes

would need more dmg on MissFortune Vladimir even Tryndamere too

ned the kledAug 28, 20181 votes

so basically having no cc means high dmg?

wonder why Mordekaiser isn't meta in this high damage meta :thinking:

EschetonAug 29, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=ned the kled,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NhXyl8Al,comment-id=0001000000000003,timestamp=2018-08-28T22:45:11.941+0000)

so basically having no cc means high dmg?

wonder why isn't meta in this high damage meta :thinking:

because he has more bugs than a rainforest

ned the kledAug 29, 20181 votes

funny, cuz even riot aknowledges it with nunu bot's interactions

EschetonAug 29, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=ned the kled,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NhXyl8Al,comment-id=000100000000000300000000,timestamp=2018-08-29T11:58:33.956+0000)

funny, cuz even riot aknowledges it with nunu bot's interactions

which one specifically so I don´t have to watch the whole vid?

IllabetheAug 27, 20182 votes

Why? Because AD champs have gained about 120 AD in Season 8 while armor has been nerfed into nonexistence. Nothing about Graves has innately changed. But when you couple 120 more AD with easier access to crits, true damage, and penetration, they just dominate.

Jinx used to be a 272 AD champ in Season 7. Now she easily reaches 390-421, because of runes, and new ADC items.

rayzoAug 27, 20181 votes

to be fair, you shouldn't be able to survive anyone building full damage as a squishy mage at 20 minutes, ESPECIALLY if they have dark harvest.

wildfox99Aug 27, 20182 votes

meanwhile any fed mage becomes useless with a item 3155

if you build defensive you should feel like you are actually blocking some damage,it's not about surviving,a graves with 2 items can almost kill you with with 2 AA

######also ryze is not that squishy

rayzoAug 28, 20181 votes

ryze builds stuff like item 3040 item 3027 . Not exactly the most defensive stuff. I mean sure, Seraph's provides a shield when fully stacked and ROA gives a decent amount of HP, but that stuff only kicks in around 30-35 min.

wildfox99Aug 28, 20181 votes

300~500 HP from item 3027 + 65 armor from item 3157 + item 3047 + 12% damage reduction from + his Q shield

even without item 3040 shield he had a lot of defense

rayzoAug 29, 20181 votes

the hilarious thing is.. nobody even has time to push zhonyas when rengar kills you in 0.001 sec

wildfox99Aug 29, 20181 votes

even if it's not the topic,you can zhonya his jump so you negate his burst,his ult warn you so you can get ready also he needs an ult and an out position target for doing so (unless he's really fed),and if you are the one who engage him he can't do much

then we have graves that oneshots everything in his range with no CD it doesn't matter what you do,he can do what rengar does with a nice play in every moment regardless what his enemies do (plus he have a nice dps and he's ranged)

rayzoAug 31, 20181 votes

how to zhonyas his jump when you have less than half a second to react to it? I'm no Faker.

SchenixAug 27, 20181 votes

That's not Graves, that's items with a Graves happening to use them.

RavenMagusAug 28, 20181 votes

He's an AD champ

Every AD champ is strong right now

NanoFlameZeroAug 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Literally, i was playing some ryze in mid, with tabis and zhonyas, and apperantely a graves with 3/5/4 127 farm at 20 minutes can one shot you with only two items, stormrazor and duskblade. (+Dark Harvest) Why is graves so damn strong? He wasn't even fed! Just with duskblade and stormrazor, he was able to one shot me, 800 HP.

(I must admit that i'm a scrub, but how exactly do you deal when someone literally just autos you and you die.)

Another reason, not related to your case, is because he can farm lane and jg fast AF. It's actually a real problem and kinda similar to the funneling problem LCS had.

DemainaNyxAug 28, 20181 votes

To be fair, the funneling LCS problem was that the jungler could have 2 items by the time everyone gets 1. Now they are forced to get a jungle item first before they can actually funnel so it keeps things even up until they complete their jungle item. But, funneling isn't new, that's the whole point of giving the ADC or the mid laner the kills in pro play is to funnel essentially. It was just used to the extreme in that case.

If you play Twisted Treeline, that's a strat you see a lot. You have a Yi or some other hyper carry and a support duo jungle and then roam up top to collect the CS when the wave pushes to tower.

NanoFlameZeroAug 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, the funneling LCS problem was that the jungler could have 2 items by the time everyone gets 1. Now they are forced to get a jungle item first before they can actually funnel so it keeps things even up until they complete their jungle item. But, funneling isn't new, that's the whole point of giving the ADC or the mid laner the kills in pro play is to funnel essentially. It was just used to the extreme in that case.

If you play Twisted Treeline, that's a strat you see a lot. You have a Yi or some other hyper carry and a support duo jungle and then roam up top to collect the CS when the wave pushes to tower.

I'm kind of dense like that. It took me years to realize that getting more CS faster is important to winning :-P

Spank the FoxAug 28, 20181 votes

ITT: people talking about Graves builds that aren’t related to the orignal post.

LeonerdoAug 28, 20181 votes

800 damage at 20 minutes is like half of your hp. Doing half your HP is not a one-shot.

But yeah, when he's in melee range he does more damage than actual melee fighters :\\

hhaavviikkAug 28, 20181 votes

smokescreen sometimes is a stronger CC than an actual stun, at least you can QSS a stun, if you're in the smokescreen you can't do anything but very slowly walk out of it

PaffWasTakenAug 28, 20181 votes

I'm going to be really honest on this one:

Graves 's rework has been a complete failure balance-wise. Ever since he got changed there wasn't a single time when he couldn't either abuse the meta, be on top of it or just being a free win champ with INSANE winrate in low and high elo along with pro play. Botlane. Toplane. Jungle. You name it, he ruined it.

Villainous VAug 28, 20181 votes

The problem is the same with graves as it is with yasuo. It isn't fully the champions as much as it is the items that make them even more ridiculous. Items like item 3147 (yasuo doesn't use I know) item 3095 give them incredible burst while item 3046 also makes them harder to kill in combination with more burst. PD is especially a problem as it doesn't matter how far you put yourself ahead, it instantly makes them harder to 1v1.