Syndra Interaction With Fizz

Millenium·Oct 20, 2014·30 votes·6,731 views

For the few of us who play Syndra, we all know the feeling of ulting a fizz with his Playful/Trickster off of cooldown. This pertains to that scenario. For those of you who don't know, when syndra ults a target, it checks whether or not that target is dead before the impact of the actual ultimate. This is to prevent her from wasting her ultimate on a dead target. This mechanic did not only function on dead targets. If a player were to use zhonyas hourglass before getting hit by the first ball of her ultimate, she would get the cooldown back. (For a time there was a glitch where a point blank yasuo wind-wall would persistently block and refresh her ultimate, repeatedly placing balls on the ground-fixed.

Now down to serious business, when a syndra uses her ultimate on a fizz who then goes into his playful/trickster four things happen. 1: Fizz takes no damage - this is obvious, a basic mechanic 2: Syndra's ultimate goes on cooldown - This will happen even if no balls hit 3: All incoming balls stop moving - This is a problem, Fizz's invulnerability should prevent the balls hitting him from doing damage for those .75 seconds A perfect 7-ball ultimate takes a lot longer than .75 seconds to finish and would hit him afterwards. A teather charge would continue, why not this? 4: All balls that "hit" Fizz disappear - This in combination with #3 break a whole second mechanic of syndra's ultimate. After ulting someone all dark spheres remain for 6 seconds. This mechanic works for dead champs and all other invulnerable champs except fizz. This is also something that's wrong with yasuo walls, it disintegrates the balls after they are no longer being used as offensive abilities where orianna's ball just sits there instead of being reset back to her.

Number 4 is something that has to be changed because there can be possible explanations for the first three. In the end it will waste every ball you have out and will ruin you completely for any teamfight or counterplay on Fizz.

48 Comments

I GONNA FK ON UOct 20, 20149 votes

The "few" of you who play Syndra? She's an extremely common pick due to how easy yet rewarding she is to play.

MilleniumOct 20, 20143 votes

I've played her since the beginning, I'm not used to the amount of popularity she has received recently...

GavranOct 21, 20146 votes

Fizz vs Syndra is a good skill matchup. A good Syndra will destroy him so hard pre-6. A great Fizz will dodge ultimates. A great Syndra will knockback his Q so he can't engage without landing his ult. A good Fizz will land his ult. A good Syndra will only ult him when he's stunned or after he blows Playful / Trickster to dodge the stun.

I play Fizz and Syndra and wish there were more matchups with that much depth in this game.

I'm not saying you're bad, but honestly, get better. It's the purest skill match up I can think of in the game.

(Coincidentally, if both players are merely "okay", Syndra has the upper hand.)

TDeadFatherOct 21, 20143 votes

I totally agree with you.

There's nothing more exciting than playing against your counter pick and actually beat it, jus because you are that good with the mechanics of your champion.

I like also the Fizz-Zed match up, both of you can cancel each other Ults, and can outplay the other in some form, just a skill matchup.

buniesOct 21, 201411 votes

fizz has no real counters get that myth out of your head plz

Old Man TeetoOct 22, 20141 votes

Mordekaiser

Hue hue hue hue hue.

Neo CyrusOct 22, 20146 votes

He's in Plat, you're in Silver with your most played champ being Malz with a 9 games total. You're telling him to get better? I'm telling you that if you think it's a pure skill match up you're beyond bad. It's not a skill matchup at all, Fizz is not only a counter, but he's a hard counter. Any derp could abuse his mechanics to dumpster any type of squishy mage, especially Syndra.

GavranOct 22, 20143 votes

Oh man it's almost like I don't play a lot of ranked so maybe my placement isn't accurate huh? And I'm honestly not saying he's bad, just that if he's losing a skill matchup getting better is better than asking for buffs. But sure, ignore all the ways I listed that Syndra can outplay Fizz. I don't care if you want to be ignorant and cry for nerfs instead of trying to improve your game. Riot doesn't listen to stupid complaints anyway.

Neo CyrusOct 22, 20145 votes

You are delusional. Your rank was Bronze before being given free placement into Silver. You are Bronze, in Silver, telling Plats to get better because you think a hard counter to Syndra is a skill matchup.

GavranOct 22, 20143 votes

Whatever you need to tell yourself chum. :) I literally couldn't care any less what you have to say about my what, 12 ranked games?

All you're telling me is that you can't contest my argument at all, so you'd rather make irrelevant posts about a part of the game I don't even use.

BTW your 3v3 ranking is awful you shouldn't even be allowed to post in this thread.

Gaston du CoteauOct 22, 20144 votes

You have no argument, you have gibberish, which is why no one bothers go into detail, we already know how their kits work. You saying you have no contest to "my argument" is nothing but a strawman. Everyone and their dogs know Fizz hard counters standard mages and is Syndra's biggest counter.

Yeah, his no rank in a worthless mode is a funny comparison of you never being able to legitimately get out of Bronze. The hilarity.

GavranOct 22, 20143 votes

God you're pathetic. :)

Do you even know what a strawman is? I'm embarrassed for you.

P.S. I have no idea what his 3v3 rank is I don't go stalking other people's profiles for irrelevant details. That was satire. But you're kinda dense, so I apologize for not having explained that for you ahead of time.

Gaston du CoteauOct 22, 20144 votes

You're the one everyone's laughing at. :)

GavranOct 22, 20143 votes

You and one other guy downvoting all my posts because your desperate ad hominem fell apart is a far cry from everyone doing anything.

But hell, get everyone to laugh at me, I'd rather have an unpopular truth than be in the group of people that think 12 ranked games out of over 2000 games has any bearing whatsoever on this conversation.

Got Dat H PyloriOct 22, 20143 votes

Bjergsen said on stream last night that Syndra vs Fizz lane matchup is easy and a good syndra shouldn't lose. Dat Silver Bjergsen.

DecaedeusOct 22, 20142 votes

Completely unrelated to the topic; we're talking about QoL changes for Syndra that not only apply to Fizz, but also to other untargetable champions such as Vladimir. We're talking about Syndra's R interaction with untargetability, not about her particular lane matchup. Read the post please.

GavranOct 22, 20141 votes

Cooldown resets when you fail your ult are not QoL changes, they're buffs. And it's a pretty big one in Syndra's cases. Don't be obtuse. OP mentioned some kind of other issues with not getting balls all over the floor that may or may not be a good idea to change, but the bulk of his post is about getting the cooldown reset.

MohrbOct 21, 20146 votes

Yet another example of Fizz being a toxic champion. The amount of time he spends untargetable is ridiculous... combined with an absolutely atrocious amount of damage and best mobility in the game. It's not OK.

Yet Poppy too OP to make playable.

BOOYASACKAOct 21, 20145 votes

Fizz seems op Fizz

Some BaconOct 21, 20144 votes

Fizz is not OP...

Just continue crying, not like we care.

If fizz was OP, riot would've done something already. I'm pretty sure a group of mature adults who have been playing this for around five years know more than you...

And here I was thinking it was something about Atlantans fizz and Atlantans syndra.

Draven or DravenOct 21, 20142 votes

fizz is op becasue of hour glass

his counter play revolves around him getting blown up after his E is on CD.

It's not the case when you can go in, kill someone, hour glass, and have E back up by time stasis is over and get out alive

TDeadFatherOct 21, 20142 votes

Actually your point is correct but not the way of say it.

Fizz has an awful early, if you manage to kill him 1 or 2 times before he hits 6, there´s nothing he can do to get fed. Sure, he can farm and get some assist, but still he's that kind of champion that just fall behind so hard if the laning was terrible.

Just for reference, did anyone saw the game 3 SSW vs SHR? Even PawN couldn't do a thing to make a Fizz comeback...

Vellich0rOct 21, 20142 votes

hehehe, you can come back, ive come back from an 0-4 lane as fizz, you just have to be against shit players and know how to steal kills >:)

TDeadFatherOct 21, 20141 votes

That's a different thing, but even in low elo ranked games, if played well, fizz CAN'T come back, believe me... (This is just a smurf in NA (my awful English proves it lol, b4 you get saying what a lvl 10 knows about ranked..)

Star WardenOct 21, 20144 votes

Invulnerability breaks contact with target spells, which is why the balls stop.

ArizelOct 20, 20143 votes

I have no Sympathy for "Fizz Mains" But I have EVEN less for Syndra mains. The amount of damage you are able to do with a select and click ultimate is purely disgusting. At least Fizz's ultimate is actually a skill shot

#GutTheFish

MilleniumOct 21, 20146 votes

You ignore the fact that if you just "select and click" for your ultimate you do literally zero damage. Preparation to do that damage takes around 8 seconds for a 7 ball ultimate. It also requires 1/3 of her mana pool. It is then blockable by zhonyas, braum, and yasuo ulti's. On top of that it is her only "lock on" spell, everything else must be done by hand. The More You Know

RiviniOct 22, 20141 votes

The "few" of you who play Syndra? She's an extremely common pick due to how easy yet rewarding she is to play.

Especially all the sheep who decided to pick her up after she became popular in the LCS.

You ignore the fact that if you just "select and click" for your ultimate you do literally zero damage. Preparation to do that damage takes around 8 seconds for a 7 ball ultimate. It also requires 1/3 of her mana pool. It is then blockable by zhonyas, braum, and yasuo ulti's. On top of that it is her only "lock on" spell, everything else must be done by hand. The More You Know

It's really hard when her Q isn't spammable, so it does take a lot of time to get the extra 2-3 balls. Oh and that mana! You would think Syndra players would get Athene's or something. Her CC is also very difficult to land, with her AoE slow, AoE knock back and AoE stun so hard to hit, especially with minions getting in the way! If only she could create her balls and use her slow while moving.

Oh, wait a minute...

TiureOct 22, 20141 votes

I've been playing Syndra since she was released. Trust me...you have no idea.

QQWQQR is how you get a 7 ball ultimate. At 40% CDR, this is just barely possible, but your enemies have to be within range. Oh, and you also have to grab the right dark sphere with your ultimate, else it will be a 6 ball ultimate or even a 5 ball ultimate. Not to mention it's telegraphed like crazy. And Syndra is squishy.

I'm not going to pretend that Syndra's skill floor is particularly high, but please do note that literally everything those sheep Syndras can do would be better accomplished by a halfway decent Annie. Annie mid is probably a lot stronger than Syndra mid right now, actually, but she's often overlooked because she's a little girl and only costs 450 ip, so everyone seems to think she's a champ who's only for beginners...NOT the case at all.

AudiomancyOct 21, 20148 votes

I have no Sympathy for "Fizz Mains" But I have EVEN less for Syndra mains. The amount of damage you are able to do with a select and click ultimate is purely disgusting.

Veigar Fiora Malzahar Lissandra all say hello.

What Is SmiteOct 21, 20144 votes

Yea about every mage in that list gets out safe after using their ultimate, Fiora does not so you have no reason to complain about her point and click ultimate which is also out of player control unlike Syndra Lissandra Veigar Malzahar and to a degree

JamnonOct 20, 20143 votes

Sounds like a bug. I love syndra. lets fix this.

ThaPizzaManOct 21, 20143 votes

Syndra counters fizz early game sooo

48983507DEL1Oct 21, 20143 votes

Saying someone counters Fizz early game is not really a counter at all, since he will always come back since he has super high scaling damage plus % of health damage (which is absolute bullshit on an assassin who is only supposed to assassinate squishies). Its similar to Akali or Yasuo; they can be 0/5 and still comeback with extreme power if they get a single kill, except Fizz doesn't even need that kill. This is in no way similar to saying Caitlyn counters Vayne early game or saying Renekton counters Riven early game because they can completely shut down the people they counter and give them no hope of ever coming back unless they are just fed free kills from their already fed teamates. Fizz still has reliale damage and utility no matter how far behind he is and is almost garunteed a kill by roaming either top or bot since he does good damage to both squishies and tanks. He isn't like Zed, who needs a high amount of skill to pull off outplays by shadow dodging, using an ultimate untargetable ability, and dueling tanks with the skills listed above to get kills and begin to snowball, where Fizz can simply point and click his basic abilities and dodge abilities every 6 seconds (with decent cdr) even when he misses his ult. Fizz is such bullshit and needs some kind of nerf. Personally I hate Akali more, since she takes even less skill to use, but Fizz is high on my shit list.

Vellich0rOct 21, 20141 votes

the percent health damage is negligible since it is missing health and not much missing health at that.

buniesOct 21, 20142 votes

Yes akali that champon that can be completely countered with a pink ward or a lense, so op

48983507DEL1Oct 28, 20141 votes

Yes akali that champon that can be completely countered with a pink ward or a lense, so op

Okay this is what that does. A) everyone has to have a pink ward on them at all times and can't use it for actual ward clearing purposes since you can only have 1 per person on the map at all times, or B) everyone gets the upgraded sweeper, which means much less vision on the map when people get to a 6 item build or full build. The final option is C) everyone travel as a group, but in solo queue that hardly ever happens, and since assassins aren't supposed to be good teamfighters anyway she shouldn't really be teamfighting. The bad part is, in lower Elos, she's still extremely hard to peel off with insane burst and sustained damage, spell vamp, and target gap closers that reset on kills. Her shroud, even when she's not invisible, still give her a ton of move speed. She can still snowball to the point of unstoppable during the mid game when no when is grouped and do enough damage before she is killed to do her job of taking out the carries. Saying that she is countered by true vision isn't as simple as you think.

HayaishiOct 21, 20142 votes

This happens with Vi ult as well.

Either let Fizz get hit by it (which he should because it's BS he can negate everything with that ability) or make the abilities go on a 5 sec cooldown.

GavranOct 21, 20141 votes

Not everything, and not BS, it's what the ability does. Hell Vi ult does the same thing to all CC. As well as being completely unstoppable if you're not a champion that builds AP to Zhonya's it. (Well BV is good too to be fair, but not good enough to justify the MR if Vi's team lacks magic damage.)

Vellich0rOct 21, 20141 votes

its vulnerable to all tethers which makes middlesticks surprisingly viable against fizz.

Ch0c0lateJesusOct 21, 20142 votes

Maybe you shouldnt try a targeted ult on Fizz when he has his E available?

I mean, its not like Syndra's ult is particularly hard to use, or has a long cooldown. I done see why it should behave differently to other targeted nukes. If you misuse your ult on someone that can negate it like Fizz , or someone with item 3157 , it should go on cooldown imo.

buniesOct 21, 20145 votes

or fizz shouldn't have a get out of jail free card every 6 seconds

RevyUpOct 21, 20143 votes

Maybe you shouldnt try a targeted ult on when he has his E available?

I mean, its not like Syndra's ult is particularly hard to use, or has a long cooldown. I done see why it should behave differently to other targeted nukes. If you misuse your ult on someone that can negate it like , or someone with , it should go on cooldown imo.

Doesnt his e have like a 4 sec cd?

LlaniteOct 22, 20141 votes

CyrrusOct 20, 20141 votes

I noticed this! Completely wrecked the stun afterwards also :c

PatMcGroynOct 21, 20141 votes

I play Syndra, too, and it is frustrating to have an ult negated by untargetable/ invulnerable states. That said, it forces you to play smarter with your ult. You have to consider what abilities can dodge your ult, and work around them. Standing back and being objective, I think it's balanced because of how innately powerful Syndra's ult is for a point and click spell, as well as how powerful the rest of her kit is. Her ult could be something completely different, and she would still be very powerful on the virtue of the rest of her kit. In fact, right now her most attractive ability is her long range stun & pick potential with Q+E.

JavvekOct 22, 20141 votes

I will admit, yasuo's wall could use more consistancy with things in regards to projectiles. It deletes syndra's balls but not azir's minions? Why? Doesn't it delete other things like olaf's axe? Etc. I think this shoul ddefinately get looked at. As for the rest, too late to write up something full. I just thought i'd pick on that little nitpick of mine xP