Am i the only one who hates the new jungle more than any other jungle version in 3 years?

TossedinAustin·1/8/2015, 2:28:50 PM·5 votes·1,424 views

I figure i can't be the ONLY one who hates the new jungle. I mean seriously the only parts i like about it is that dragon is more important now and i also like the crab wards. However it feels like dragon is SO important that it is now more important than baron. I hate that the jungle camps don't give enough EXP to keep up with the laners unless you have a godly clear time. I hate that the small camps deal more damage than red buff and blue buff camps. I hate that the first clear is so brutal to get through without a massive leash or going back to base to heal halfway through the first clear. I hate that you have to smite the small camps to get the buffs from them. I hate that the camps level up based on how many times you have killed them instead of based on level meaning that if an enemy counter jungles you during your first clear you have a MUCH harder time recovering or catching up in level. I hate that clearing camps late game is easier than it was last season but clearing camps early game is harder than it has ever been. I hate that the new jungle item's health regen is not really very helpful for jungling but junglers are forced to buy them simply for the extra gold from camps. I hate that i cant start with cloth armor and 5 pots because i will be punished in income for not having a jungling item on my first clear. I hate that i feel like i'm being punished for not using a "typical jungler" with high healing like warwick or fiddlesticks. I hate that the buff from raptors is more useful than blue buff or red buff. I hate how little thought the developers put into making the new jungle items: "Hey, lets make each one alter your smite slightly, and then lets just give each of them an enchant like how we gave boots enchants." Actually, i just hate the new jungling items period... They are terrible compared to jungling items last season.

Am i the only one who feels this way?

11 Comments

DrinkMoreWhiskey1/8/2015, 3:16:41 PM6 votes

They added decision making and trade offs to the jungle.

If you like depth it's more fun. If you like memorized patterns and not having to focus on objective control, then it's prob not for you.

Hilltop Sunset1/8/2015, 4:05:36 PM4 votes

I'm going to respond to each of your hates:

"I hate that the jungle camps don't give enough EXP to keep up with the laners unless you have a godly clear time."

The only times I have a problem keeping up with solo laners is when I horribly mess up a gank or make a really stupid play. Otherwise, I haven't had any trouble staying on-par with laners even with the warrior (for Rek'Sai, Jarvan, Vi, Wukong) or juggernaut (with Maokai, Rek'Sai, or Sejuani) enchantments. I always get the chilling smite item, too, so I don't even get the AoE smitem (portmanteau of smite item). It's just a different balance of farming/ganking than it used to be, that's all.

"I hate that the small camps deal more damage than red buff and blue buff camps."

I don't think they do; I find myself taking about the same amount of damage, which makes sense considering they give the same amount of exp. Try clearing the little monsters before the big one with the wolf and chickens, I find I take less damage overall that way.

"I hate that the first clear is so brutal to get through without a massive leash or going back to base to heal halfway through the first clear. + I hate that i feel like i'm being punished for not using a 'typical jungler' with high healing like warwick or fiddlesticks."

If you're really having that much trouble in the initial clear, chances are there is something you can do better with your runes/masteries to survive, at least long enough to clear 3 camps and go back to grab the upgraded jungle item. I see many streamers doing that (Oddone, Nightblue) and they make it work. I personally don't do that with most champs, but sometimes I do and I find it doesn't slow me down too much.

"I hate that you have to smite the small camps to get the buffs from them."

If you got every smallcamp buff just for killing the large monster, ANYONE could get those buffs whenever they wanted, and junglers would be godly: there would always be a ward in your wolf-side jungle, you would always have an oracle's, and you would always have a thornmail. It would be obscene. I enjoy having to consider my options about which camp to smite based on how the game is going at the moment, it adds depth and meaningful gameplay.

"I hate that the camps level up based on how many times you have killed them instead of based on level meaning that if an enemy counter jungles you during your first clear you have a MUCH harder time recovering or catching up in level."

This is the only thing I agree with you on. I have been disconnected at the beginning of a game before as a jungler, and couldn't connect for 5 minutes. When I got back and cleared, the camps gave the same experience as they would have at minute 1:55, even though it was about 7 minutes into the game, so I wasn't able to catch up to the rest of the players AT ALL, which was annoying. I had to go to a lane and get solo exp from lane minions to catch up.

"I hate that clearing camps late game is easier than it was last season but clearing camps early game is harder than it has ever been."

You already expressed displeasure in the early-game clear, but I'm not sure why you hate being able to clear more easily late-game. By then I don't think jungle clearning is very important anyway: you're just clearing for the miniscule exp and possibly the smite buff.

"I hate that the new jungle item's health regen is not really very helpful for jungling but junglers are forced to buy them simply for the extra gold from camps. + I hate that i cant start with cloth armor and 5 pots because i will be punished in income for not having a jungling item on my first clear."

I actually tested this out, and the hp regen is pretty useful--like, more useful than lifesteal, more damage, or more armor (although if you had 3 extra potions the HP gain may be superior, I'd have to test it out further...). And I personally approve of the jungle gold changes to deter lane-poachers from stealing your camps, and I think attaching that gold to an item the jungler is going to purchase anyway was a smart way to do it.

"I hate that the buff from raptors is more useful than blue buff or red buff."

Good thing you don't need to smite the red or blue buffs to get them! You can have all three!!

"I hate how little thought the developers put into making the new jungle items: 'Hey, lets make each one alter your smite slightly, and then lets just give each of them an enchant like how we gave boots enchants. Actually, i just hate the new jungling items period... They are terrible compared to jungling items last season.'"

I actually thought this was a rather ingenious plan. I'm honestly not sure why you think these changes required little thought. The fact you can utilize any of the 4 smitems with any of the 4 enchantments was brilliant and allows multiple playstyles to emerge amongst different characters. I love how innovative and non-linear the jungle has become. I ever hear that they are implementing a trade-off system where you can trade your jungle items and boot-upgrades for alternative ones if things in game change and you decide you want something else, which is amazing! That means if you want to start with the hatchet to clear more quickly, but later in the game you want chilling smite to help catch people, you can trade without having to sell anything and waste gold.

What I'm getting from your post is that you hate that the jungle is more complex, and that there is more consideration to be put into your decisions which can result in more meaningful, impactful gameplay. Which I personally do not hate at all, I really love that they've given me more opportunities to make decisions about my smite, about my build-path, and about my map control. I think this is the most innovative, risky, and well-executed jungle change they've ever made. Yes, the initial clear can be brutal, but it is so worth the changes.

TeemoJenkins1/8/2015, 3:31:36 PM2 votes

Biggest reason I enjoy the new jungle: Clears take longer, lanes need to be more self sufficient. It's making a bigger separation between the Men and the Boys in lane. Counter jungling is much more critical, vision control in your own jungle is more critical. It's taking the game to the next level of strategic play. Previously it was Clear, gank, gank, clear, and just got monotonous. I really like the new elements to the jungle. The stuns and poison buff are great additions. Still learning it, but having fun.

disregardable1/8/2015, 2:39:08 PM2 votes

I have not once managed to stay on level with the laner's by just farming. Not with Warwick, not with Udyr, not with Tryndamere.

Siyther1/8/2015, 6:02:53 PM1 votes

i find that starting golems without a leash and then going wolves,frog then buffs works really well. As long as u have masteries for the jungle anyway. i also struggled with the new jungle when it released but no more i think it is alot better for most junglers (poor eve)

Long Dong Wukong1/8/2015, 2:34:05 PM1 votes

Nope, I made a giant thread awhile back about it lol

If you don't play a Devourer jungler you're playing catchup pretty much, it sucks.

IvernTheTerrible1/8/2015, 6:18:23 PM1 votes

I pretty much agree with everything the op said. Last season I mained jungle. Now if I get last pick and end up as jungle it makes me just want to dodge. You say it creates more strategic diversity? I say it decides the game prior to minute 15. You say laners separate the men from the boys? I say it creates unwinnable games for people who get pjudge on holed into a position they don't normally play. It used to be that the jungler could shore up weak lanes or snowball strong ones. Now it's pick a heavy engage jungler because you have to snowball early because there is no late game now. 95% of my games are landslides. Either winning or losing, almost all of them are landslide 20-25 minute games. It's so boring. None of my friends want to jungle anymore. It used to be that I would queue with 3 other friends and we would ask who wants to play jungle. Now it's who's turn is it to play jungle. None of my friends like it at all. I appreciate the idea, but it is just terrible in the current state.

Gorsz1/8/2015, 3:44:04 PM1 votes

Am I the only one who hates Jungle to begin with and thinks its an extremely dominant position in a team game.

If a team has a good jungler, and the other team has a not good jungler you may as well ff 20.

Easyyy1/8/2015, 4:00:28 PM1 votes

Yes

Abyssphere1/8/2015, 4:58:49 PM1 votes

A lot of your complaints I really don't understand. Why does the variety of jungle enchants seem poorly thought out? Surely the fact that there's so much variety in the jungle items implies they thought about it quite a lot.

I don't get what's wrong with the small camps having smite buffs considering it's either that or no buffs and I don't get certain buffs being stronger than blue/red's buff being a problem either considering you get blue and red's buff without smiting anyway.