What's that my lane opponent has bought a Hexdrinker?

Sebbo·Aug 2, 2017·70 votes·4,050 views

Fine, guess I'll never be able to trade with them again. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

181 Comments

Ben SharpioAug 2, 201716 votes

What's that? my opponent bought item 3165 ? Looks like i'll be getting chunked from maximum range nonstop

DrCyanideAug 2, 201747 votes

Completed item that costs 2900 vs component item that costs 1300.

EedatAug 2, 201736 votes

I gotchu. Here, take this item 3802

General Esdeath Aug 3, 201723 votes

I don't know why this has downvotes, it's the one item that pretty much negates the "this champ is gated by mana costs" design

DivewingAug 3, 201712 votes

<this is probably why Ori is getting nerfed>

NyarlathοtepAug 3, 20179 votes

Well to be fair mages need a mana regen item that they can use.

General Esdeath Aug 3, 20174 votes

Nice meme

NyarlathοtepAug 3, 201712 votes

Hooo? How so? Is it not the truth? Oriented Attack dmg champs can buy lifesteal in order to ~~draintank~~ sustain in combat. Tanks have item 3083 ,though out of combat. Mages have... ye they have no sustain. (by mages i mean mages, not akali, morde or generally anyone that can buy item 3146 ). And lets not forget that mages have also no mana pots! So, if mages are out of mana they can: 1 go b to regen mana if they dont have item 3802 2 hope they will get blue 3 cs with only aa while also being prone to all ins.

Stan HerringtonAug 3, 20173 votes

{quoted}

So, if mages are out of mana they can:

1 go b to regen mana if they dont have 2 hope they will get blue 3 cs with only aa while also being prone to all ins.

not waste their mana

DrCyanideAug 3, 20173 votes

I believe that's option 3.

DJMason88Aug 2, 201720 votes

To be fair, if you are playing an assassin and they buy Morellos instead of Zhonyas first, you should be able to kill them pretty easily before they can poke you, unless you are pushing or are super behind.

SpoofghoulAug 3, 20171 votes

but then i just buy item 3110 instead

Sraeg2013Aug 3, 20175 votes

As a mage?

Good luck doing any damage.

SpoofghoulAug 3, 20171 votes

thats what i tell them

besides some mages have pretty bonkers base damages and all you really require is some pen to start chunking

karthus comes to mind, i always play him full tank and surprise surprise i'm out damaging my adc

Sraeg2013Aug 3, 20174 votes

Spoofghoul's Match History:

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/900/481/9de.gif

SpoofghoulAug 4, 20171 votes

What can i say, i did get honored every single one of those games. And i had fun. You see i color outside of the lines. Coloring inside of the lines is for boring people anyway :D

Sraeg2013Aug 4, 20171 votes

Well, I play ranked almost exclusively. While I did play ADC Muramana Ahri in a few games, shit like that doesn't usually fly both with the team and the winrate.

SpoofghoulAug 4, 20171 votes

I can understand that in ranked, however, some off meta builds can be really strong in certain situations or sometimes be flat out better then the meta build (how do you think meta builds come and go)

In the case of frozen hearth on mages it's a matter of survival Dead = zero damage dealt

This doesn't mean you cannot swap the item out later once you hit full build, or even before that if you really want to.

Hell by the end of the game that assassin is diving a different target out of habit, stuff like this throws people off balance, an underused and under appreciated tactic in league.

In the case of ahri building muramana, you can utilize it with catalyst to heal in combat from each proc, it doesn't mean you don't get to build 5 mage items after either, each bolt from W applies it, E applies it and each bolt from ult applies it giving you 13 applications in 1 rotation and more with additional basic attacks You can even get DFT or TLD bonus damage from it as well The damage you get from this one item is enormous and it's physical allowing ahri to deal 3 types of damage How will you defend vs that. It also gives mana, and mana cost reductions

People underestimate oddball builds often because they lack the imagination and creativity and insight to understand them.

That doesn't make it bad, just undervalued

5050BSAug 2, 201716 votes

ya for 1300 gold it has stupid good stats

Life Shield (90s CD) Resist Damage

Compared to Seekers 1200 Damage Resist a bit more damage and resist after killing 30 more CS

The +15 armor and damage != Life Shield on 90s CD

TurquoiseYoshiAug 3, 20173 votes

It's about whether you favor trading or all-in. Armguard is far better in trading because its stats are far more efficient as long as you farm effectively. Hexdrinker is better in all-ins because its shield makes it more efficient during the short period when it's up during when that's happening.

FefnilAug 3, 20178 votes

The problem is that, as a mage against an assassin, you can't really trade. After the first few minutes, if you even try to get in range to get some poke off, they will take this opportunity to all in you, and the only thing you can do at that point is counter-all in yourself. Except that: A) as a mage, your all in is generally weaker than an assassin's and B) they will negate it with Hexdrinker. But even without considering these, the point still is that you can't trade with an assassin simply because it's not you who decides when to fight. So the only thing left to do is try and poke with long range skills (if you have any) while freezing the lane the best you can. But long range poke is very unreliable, so it's not easy to even proc the Hexdrinker from a distance before the enemy recovers.

GayFluffyUnicornAug 4, 20171 votes

Then you don't know how to play a mage. Plain and simple. So far i crushed a lot of zeds and talons in lane as GP until level 11 when they pretty mcuh only need to press R and i'm dead without exhaust and you are going to tell me as syndra, ori, anivia you can't POKE melee assassins?` Yeah you don't trade, you harass and poke from range, no need to trade. Positioning is key.

FefnilAug 4, 20172 votes

Except your trade range most of the time is the same as most assassin's engage range. That's why I said "long range skills (if you have any)". I was talking about skills like Ziggs or Xerath's Q, Lux's E, Brand's W, which are long range skills that, because of that, are unreliable from max range. Also you always have to consider the wave, because most of the time the long range skills are needed to farm. All these reasons make it so it's not really that easy getting off a constant poke to proc the Hexdrinker. And if you try to get close to use the reliable and more powerful trade pattern, trying to Brand's E, use important skills from short range to make it harder to dodge, or simply autoattacks, if they have a grain of salt in their brain they will immediately jump on you.

Sraeg2013Aug 3, 20172 votes

The thing is a fully stacked Seeker's doesn't provide any more damage for a mage than Hexdrinker does for an AD.

Consider this: An average "bread and butter" spell for a mage has a ratio between 0.5 and 0.8 AP. That's anywhere from 10 to 30 damage per ability.

Meanwhile ADs usually operate on bonus AD scaling which varies from 0.5 to even 2.0 ratios. That's anywhere from 15 to 60 damage per ability.

Not to mention AD usually has a 1.0 ratio on basic attacks, while AP has none (with very few exceptions).

That's why ADs rarely get past 300 AD while mages don't pass 600 AP.

TurquoiseYoshiAug 3, 201715 votes

I really want to think that the Boards aren't just salty mage mains, but then I see posts like these, and I see everyone's OP.GG, and I wonder.

As for an actual point, because I like to have actual points instead of just random tidbits that are complete hyperbole, Hexdrinker doesn't automatically negate poke damage. That doesn't even make sense. Mikael's Crucible gives more MR than Hexdrinker, and nobody thinks that that item automatically makes supports into an MR tank. Same with Negatron Cloak, if you're a user of the old Abyssal Scepter. It makes you take less damage, but it's not like that matters if you're taking consistent poke anyway. And, anyway, Armguard, the AP opposite of Hexdrinker, gives 45 armor when fully stacked, which is more than a Chain Vest, while still giving pretty solid AP.

Now, I could stop my point here, because there is no mention to Hexdrinker's Lifeline passive anywhere here, which makes no sense, because that is the whole point of buying the item. Hexdrinker's stats really aren't that great without Lifeline, and are far worse than a stacked Armguard. I'm not gonna argue that Hexdrinker is a bad defensive item, it's very good if you want to have defenses against an AP all-in. It's not good in trading, especially compared to Armguard, and especially noting that it slows down whatever you want your first major item to be by 1300 gold. Also, with how many junglers are AD, the magic damage shield can sometimes be useless if the target is ganked instead of 1v1'd. Overall, it's not THAT busted. Useful as an early defensive crutch to hopefully not die against a level 6 all in from a Syndra or Orianna, but if you want to actually do damage, this doesn't help you.

NyarlathοtepAug 3, 20175 votes

I dont know about you buddy but whenever i trade with a squishy champion that has item 3155 while i have item 3191 it feels like it does jack shit nothing, and by that i mean i cant out dmg him (ofc im referring to instances that we are on equal ground).

LauchmelderAug 3, 201721 votes

{quoted} Hexdrinker's stats really aren't that great without Lifeline, and are far worse than a stacked Armguard.

"Hexdrinker without a passive is worse than Seekers with it's passive."

WHO would have guessed.

TurquoiseYoshiAug 3, 20173 votes

Except Hexdrinker's passive has a cooldown, and can be out-damaged, and can only be procced when under 30% HP. Seeker's just gives you flat stats, that will usually be better than a shield with an ultimate cooldown.

Voluug13Aug 3, 20174 votes

Armband has to be completed, and it gives nothing against burst. Hexdrinker starts with its passive outright, and Hexdrinker has actually less cooldown that most mage ultimates until level 11 and/or 30%+ cdr.

Evil YasuoAug 2, 20179 votes

What's that? my opponent bought zhonyas? looks like i cant kill them anymore

LadyRenlyAug 2, 201727 votes

[{quoted}](name=Off The Heezy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NOTHblFZ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-08-02T22:13:19.824+0000)

What's that? my opponent bought zhonyas? looks like i cant kill them anymore

zhonyas deals 0 damage though

dunder killAug 3, 201713 votes

Care to explain how Zhonyas deals 0 damage but Hex does?

MechakaiserAug 3, 201713 votes

You cant do any damage during stasis, lifeline, in the other hand...

EedatAug 3, 20173 votes

The lifeline passive on hex gives absolutely zero offensive power. Please stop using the Maw passive while taking about Hex. Stop acting like "Zhonyas is self CC hurr durr". Zhonyas active is easily one of the best in the game

THE RlVER KlNGAug 3, 201710 votes

you can freely attack and cast spells with shield to fuck over any mage that tried to combo you

hexdrinker is stupid and should be nerfed it basically wins you lane if you're playing an ad assassin and aren't horrendously behind

AnhartaminAug 3, 20174 votes

[deleted]

AazzlanoAug 3, 20177 votes

Mage items are literally all shit compared to AD items, lmao. What world are you living in?

AirKingNeoAug 3, 20173 votes

WHAT?

WHERE IS THIS IDEA THAT MAGES ITEMS SUCK?

item 3165 item 3151 THESE TWO ITEMS META MAGES BUILD AND ONE SHOT NEARLY EVERYONE RIGHT NOW. TOSS ON VOID STAFF AND IT GETS WORSE.

What game are you playing, because I'm playing League of Legends where mages have the highest winrates mid right now and I permaban Orianna whenever I play mid.

NineTailedMysticAug 3, 20172 votes

Maybe because Mages and Assassins are the only two real classes to go mid and one will be better than the other.

AirKingNeoAug 3, 20171 votes

And mages are really broken right now.

NineTailedMysticAug 3, 20172 votes

How? Because they're always played mid? Not like they have anywhere else to go.

GayFluffyUnicornAug 4, 20171 votes

Yeah morrelo, void staff and liandries are soooo shit. Not talking about roa. There is a reason why mages reign over midlane. Like we have two actual viable AD assassin champs in mid. Zed and Talon. End. Even jayce is hard to pull off if you fall behind.

NineTailedMysticAug 4, 20172 votes

Because Mages aren't a selfish pick unlike Assassins?

Also good. Jayce doesn't belong in any lane.

Sraeg2013Aug 3, 20175 votes

complains about assassin items which are now used after a long time without assassins

Rofl, AD assassins rushing Hexdrinker against APs is something I've seen since I started playing in pre-Season 3.

ThefrostyvikingAug 3, 201712 votes

Rushing zhonya cripples a mage's mana though.

AD champs lose little from ruhsing hexdrinker.

And no i do not think morello is issue free x)

Squidward DabAug 3, 20173 votes

Plus rushing a zhonyas only gives u a sad amount of 70 ap which is honestly sad for such an expensive item. And if u go tabi/merc treads over sorc boots you lost out on so much damage whereas ur laner can buy tabi/merc boots and still have a good amount of damage

TheorcheroAug 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

zhonyas deals 0 damage though

But it can also negate a massive amount of damage and crowd control. It's easily one of the best actives in the game.

"Muh mana problems" bitch please. item 3802 exists. item 3010 exists. Mages rarely have mana problems after first back, especially if they get donated blue. If you're constantly running oom even with those items then your mana conservation sucks..

SSJTribeAug 3, 20174 votes

That's the issue, is that mages have to actually choose between:

A. Having some armor / stasis passive to help survive assassin all-ins, but losing the ability to poke and waveclear due to mana issues

B. Being able to poke and waveclear, but becoming vulnerable to all-ins due to lack of defensive stats.

Meanwhile one hexdrinker for the AD midlaner and all their problems are solved. I'd trade an AD shield lifeline passive for the stasis any day.

Automated RivenAug 3, 20172 votes

100% this. hexdrinker just needs the shield removed and have the completed item (defensive shield) buffed slightly and offense nerfed slightly so there is actually a trade off to counter building.

DJMason88Aug 2, 201718 votes

Hexdinker is 1600 gold less then Zhonyas and you don't lose as hard as most mages do when they are forced to take Zhonyas instead of item 3165 or item 3027 . And you can sit on hexdinker and not build maw until later, you can't do that with Zhonyas, since the effect is only on the final item.