Fiddle Support Has No Counterplay

CloakAndGrenade··6 votes·2,328 views

Free Sustain off of minions, absurdly low CD's and mana costs, no skillshots to land, free bounce damage off of minions so you don't even have to step into range of your own abilities to hit the enemy, AoE silence. Riot? Hello?

20 Comments

Lush Father3 votes

Trying to gank a fiddlesticks lane is more of the problem.

Vlada Cut2 votes

The point is to either you get ailenced while farming or zone yourself out so you wouldn't get silence in a cost of losing cs. I'd say take a sup who can all in cc him from a safe range from which he cannot fear you. For supports i suggest: Blitzcrank Thresh Leona and mother trucking Lulu. If your csrry get's fesred or silenced you have a low time to react by eithrr hooking him or lesping to him. Once Fiddle uses those two spells he becomes an easy target, sucks hp out of you? Welp ue can't outsustain if he's one and there are two of you. Blitz and Thresh can grab him whilemtrying to escape, and once you do he's most likely dead. Or leona can get to him easily and give you enough cc to finish him off. Lulu csn polymorth which is annoyingly useful. Although, Morgana's Black Shield seems legit enough to stop Fiddle from fearing you on the first place.

Although... if you are facing supportnfiddle and brand carry... Then you will really need to have q huge luck to take at least one cs out of every wave.

FireDrizzle2 votes

Fid can poke by E'ing any minion, theres no reason for him too get in range of those tanks.

Vlada Cut1 votes

{quoted}

Fid can poke by E'ing any minion, theres no reason for him too get in range of those tanks.

True, unless they use their main cc befire getting silenced?

Jmman2 votes

really if you had item 2009 and item 1054 he would run OOM before you feel below 75%.... This is from a fiddle main. If they get item 1053 first trip back i'm screwed unless they play dumb. They can out heal all on my poke.

FireDrizzle1 votes

But do you play around manaflow band's cd?

Jmman2 votes

Yes.

Fiddle damage comes from ult and getting crows to bounce off you with drain. If he is poking with crows dive him. All he can do is fear. With one point into drain the damage and healing is laughable. You want to poke fiddle and cause him to drain minions to heal. This sounds weird but it cost so much. If you don't level drain the heal is low and might take 2 cast. If you do then it cost a lot of mana.

Fear is 65, 100 for drain and 70ish for crows (going off my head but might be incorrect) For full damage he needs about 240ish or more depend on level of spells. So when poking the secret is to draw all the spells with little damage. After the crow run at him to force the fear. it will be .75 sec. But it drain 65 more mana. After two times of doing this you will see he is in an issues. Use more mana and be under 50% or use his pots. If he uses his pots you won. he can't just keep crowing at this point. Make him waste 3 spells. and you got him needing to back for mana.

Two things to know. If fiddle builds damage mage items. he is a mage bot lane. want for help because its two carry vs one and a support. Its too much damage. Let them push the turret and jungle gank.

If he builds support items he is a CC bot. Low damage and blows up.

As a mage build the point is not to feed the lane. because once mid game hits he has no help for the carry and no gold/mana for a mage. You can play safe not die, lose your turret but still wreck them because you have an under power mage and adc with no help running around.

Fiddle does really well against mages and "other" bots due to no sustain. Adc with footwork, item 1054 item 1053 kind of counters his poke. This is what will define you as a better player. Can you change you build / mastery to give you the advantage?

If you have having problems just get Morgana and level shield. Cast it on you carry and tell them to solo fiddle and laugh. Guardian talent will help a lot too against fiddle to eat the crow bounces.

Now if you play sona or vel bot he will just counter you. Just sit back and wait for mid game.

FireDrizzle1 votes

Thanks for the advice for the lane.

" If he is poking with crows dive him. All he can do is fear" If you have a gapcloser that is not shorter than fear range, otherwise its like playing melee vs Ryze.

"Now if you play sona or vel bot he will just counter you. Just sit back and wait for mid game." I think both are skill matchups tbh.

Maybe I will try Alistar vs him because the W will be a fid R counter and he gives his adc a lot of sustain.

Jmman1 votes

Well his fear doesn't stop animations. So if you que it fear wont stop. If Hec runs to lane the fear will hit but he will still get his dive and CC off. The fear will last the animation time so its like he wasn't feared at all.

Dive him also can mean to poke back. Karma can trade with him but her q r will cause him to lose about 50% of his hp. But yea with no dive this is your time to trade with him. Trade for about 8 to 10 secs and back then wait for the crow again.

I agree I have lost to some Vel that were good and could trade. Sona strat should just be heal the crow damage / poke 2nd.

Allistar is good vs him. The only play I can do it hold crows for the allistar dive and silence him so we can not get dove. but fear won't help is you headbutt / knock combo him. Blitzcrank Alistar Karma Leona Lulu Lux Morgana Pyke Taric support should put you in a good advance against him.

God I hate Blitzcrank Leona those have sooo much CC and hold you down factor. Just makes fiddle cry.

Pika Fox1 votes

His CDs are fairly long, his E and R often steal CS and kill his support item, and as the game goes on he starts having pretty much 0 damage due to lack of selfish AP items.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

And during that entire time he does way too much fucking base damage on his E, and there's just no reasonable way to avoid it.

He's stealing some CS? Oh no! What ever will his ADC do when he's getting more gold than he knows what to do with from kills and assists, but is occasionally losing a few caster minions?

Dude. it doesn't matter if you occasionally lose a couple minions if you're going 20/1/38 in lane because Fiddle is mindlessly poking them down with his fucking E. 8k gold up on everyone else is a won lane regardless of your CS.

Pika Fox1 votes

If hes going 20+ in lane, it aint fiddle thats the issue, thats you.

And the CS matters. A lot. It drastically nerfs fiddle's gold generation and quest completion time. It also auto pushes the lane and puts his ADC behind in CS. Fiddles has a lot of harass potential but also very little kill potential unless you just run at his face and stay there forever.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I don't think the answer is always "have diamond mechanics and game understanding." I anticipate he'll get nerfed pretty soon; he's been a top tier support pick with a decent pick rate for some time.

There's always counter play, but the question Riot usually chooses to answer isn't "is there any counterplay?" The question to answer is "how fun is the counter play and how easy is it to know that for the average player?" Pub-stomp champions are bad for long-term game health. Exceptional players routinely forget that.

Pika Fox1 votes

I agree, but thats not what i was replying to. OP stated there was none, which is false, and the person who replied to me gave unrealistic expectations of a game and clearly overvalued fiddle.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Yeah, the exaggerations don't help, but there are good points in there if you compromise a little.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Hmmm ali taric leona will smash him

Jmman1 votes

Its because you don't know how to play against him.

I would play him a few games so you can see. You play against him the opposite of other champs.

He is isn't casting you charge him. If he is casting you are running away. This will bait his spells. If he tries to fear/crow/drain you all you have to do is run back. This will use 1/3 of him mana. and do low low damage to you. Don't run in then back, just back once he drains.

Most of his damage is from the bounce of "E". Once he throws it run at him low levels. He can level it or fear/drain. At level 2 he either has drain and crows or fear and crows. A lot of times at 3 he has fear and 2 levels of "e" (crows) Once he throws it just keep running at him. (this if from a support view) YOu have 2 or 3 pots. Fiddle has one mana bar. You are playing against his mana bar not HP bar.

As a fiddle main I never lost when they pick fiddle support against me. because I know the champs. The windows to beat him are big enough to drive a semi through. He issue is great late game against divers to protect your carries.

Next its not AoE silence its just one sec. What happens is everyone panics they are silenced and run back instead of attacking him. Once he drain everything stands there like a noob instead of backing and re-attacking. Treat drain like Leblanc Morgana tether and your be great.

You will build item 1029 item 1033 against pen, item 3123 item 3165 against healing but instead of getting item 2010 item 1053 item 1054 item 2031 against lane poke you post on the boards????

Hyquiem1 votes

It’s like he never knew why mid mains have a hard time one tricking.... tips are basically poke fiddle he soon runs out of mana and you can all in.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

item 3194 Yasuo Braum Morgana Sivir Sona Janna Soraka Taric Lux Kayle Karma TahmKench

right.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

I find more success against him when lanes become kill lanes.

Kill Fiddle before he could even interact and touch those crows on you, and once he's dead you can finally lane.

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