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Why Do Simple Gameplay Concepts Seem Completely Lost On People?

CloakAndGrenade·9/9/2019, 2:00:10 AM·38 votes·15,017 views

I thought that as I climbed up out of bronze, then out of silver, into gold, and finally into high gold/low plat where I am now, I would see an increase in game knowledge. It only makes sense right? Higher elo players have played the game longer, they've climbed up higher than me, earlier than me. Some are better mechanically than I will ever be. So why is it some of the basic, fundamental concepts are lost completely on players even reaching up into the diamond elo?

Vision control is ignored completely. people dive for objectives blind. My junglers are face-checking the enemy blue-buff without so much as a scuttle or blue trinket. When I jungle my laners demand an objective be taken despite no vision control and the enemy jungler being MIA, spamming me with question mark pings as I try to drop wards before hand. They'll try to flank a lone enemy through the enemy's territory with no wards down and get furious at their team when they get blown up by the rest of the enemy team that were moving to assist. Most marksmen don't both helping their supports contest wards, put pinks down, or even use their free yellow trinkets. It's not uncommon to see a match end where the marksmen and both solo laners don't even have 20 ward score. These are usually the same people that are permanently pushing and can't seem to avoid a gank, for obvious reasons. It's depressing to look at the stats by the end of the game and see me over 100 ward score for a long game and the rest of my team not even hitting 40 apiece.

Or how about team composition. Enemy team locks in Master Yi and Vayne and yet my team will proceed to lock in carries with no CC across the board, then wonder why we can't lock those two down long enough to kill them come late game. Is that a Rammus Jg and a malphite top for the enemy teams first two log-ins? Better believe you're going to get a mid zed or talon with the rest of your team hard-locking in AD damage. Teams without wave clear, teams without hard engage, teams without CC, teams without AP damage, teams without scaling or objective control. Nearly every single game I play the team is missing one or more of these crucial roles and I cant fill them all at once.

Wave management? Another complete abstract concept to most. Freezing, shoving, pushing, none of it seems to matter. They'll rotate and try to prep for an objective with minions at our inhibs and no map pressure to speak of. They'll continue to hard shove their wave when they are ahead instead of freezing the wave to starve enemy laners of farm, even if they aren't able to actually pressure the turret for plates. If they are behind, instead of last hitting to keep the safety of the turret, they'll hard push and open themselves up to die yet again and lose farm. They wont slow push waves to get them to stack when sieging and don't respond to an enemy baron take by shoving waves while the enemy team backs.

Itemization? You must be joking. The enemy team could have a Soraka, Warwick, Vladimir, and Mundo all wrapped up together and they still won't build grevious wounds. That Rammus + Malphite combo from earlier? They'll build Black Cleaver because it's over powered but they certainly wont build any other form of armor pen. The amount of end-game lobbies I've seen where a mid-lane AP assassin has popped off and the only person with MR on the team is the support with merc boots is downright maddening. Tank itemization is garbage right now, sure, but if the enemy AP threat is instakilling you, there's no reason to not atleast give yourself a chance with a maw or something.

I don't get it. As strange is it might sound, seeing someone miss a skillshot or misposition doesn't bother me. Everything from lag to an honest mistake can cause those and they are usually a sign of poor reflexes or tilt. I get it. It doesn't matter how many BoxBox videos you watch, you're not going to be able to land that combo with riven until you've actually practiced it. The game knowledge is inexcusable. It's one thing to miss a skillshot. It's another thing to miss an entire game concept despite having all the information you need to know built-in to the client. People watch Esports and immediately pick up whatever champ this weeks fan-favorite player is playing. If people are watching the pros and trying to copy, why don't they copy the team-work and macro play instead of just the champions or builds? I'm not a mechanically gifted player. I'm not going to be able to pull off those clutch 1v3's, but you can bet that I understand the importance of my macro play.

I don't know how to fix it. Try bringing any of these up in your solo que matches. Go ahead. See how it works out for you. Tried asking our Mundo jg a little while ago to help me ward the dragon pit. Got called the N-word with a hard R. Granted, his account is almost certainly banned, but that is the reaction people have to gentle advice and polite requests. It is infuriating. Every game I play is being hard won or lost on macro play and teamwork. I don't know what I would have to do to get my teams to just think about the things listed above for mere moments.

56 Comments

Kai Guy9/9/2019, 6:00:55 AM9 votes

Ranks are built off population curve. You just have to win X% more then the average player in your MM range to get higher.

If a majority stop caring about Macro, the gameplay has less macro. if 4 out of 10 players are only going for KDA then you have a RNG mix of people per match who are hunting kills just to get kill, not to win. Games where 4 out of 5 members on a team only look to kill even at the cost of dragon barron towers hibitors and Nexus... not very fun to be in if you wanted a win.

See people prioritized wins over anything else, but how some player define what Winning is... well its not whos nexus blows up. Some people only feel like a winner if they stomped their lane. Some if they have the most kills. Then when they see smurfs pub stomp. They copy it. They see pro players. They copy it. Mindlessly imitating things with out an understanding is usually negative.

Its faster to climb being an OTP as it requires less game knowledge, you don't have to question your picks or think about synergy or matchups. Your gonna do the same thing every time and hope for the best RNG to favor you.

Players don't use the same metric MMR does. MMR is a Mean average. Players grade their skill only for their best or good games. A bad game is frequently ignored. Plenty of reasons folks use, here are a few. Bad matchup so not reflective of my skill game balance is the issue. Enemy smurf so obviously I cant do well. Teammates sucked so that snowballed shit. Yet... how they play or attempt to play is the fucking same in every single one of these games. some one whos played 500 games? Has potentally been queed with up to 4,500 DIFFRENT PLAYERS The single consistant variable is only themselves, but they cant climb out of their MMR and they think some how its not related to them but 4.5K Random humans.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

If you roll a D10. The average is 5.5 If you ignore the bottom 4 numbers because you refuse to count them. The average is 7.5 MMR would put a 5.5 with other 5.5 At high uncertainty MMR can be wrong. At low uncertainty many Players will view themselves as a 7.5 compared to 5.5 and think they are far superior. Because they don't count low performances as indicative of their skill, the 1 2 3 4 rolls they chose to ignore. But they use those games to judge enemy and teammate skills.

So folks run around thinking themselves vastly superiors to their peers. (7.5 being 20% higher then 5.5 on a 1 to 10 scale. and 6 7 8 is always gonna look dramatically better then 1 2 3 by a wide margin as each value is roughly 10%.) because they ignore information to the contrary.

Oh well. way it goes.

Just have to pick champions who reward good macro play on their end to make micro champions look good. There is a reason I am a support main.

Unstoppable Monk9/9/2019, 3:57:40 PM7 votes

I've had someone ask in post game lobby remake "Who d/ced?" There was only one person without items in a screen that showed them. They were motherfucking asking to tell them an answer that was clearly posted in front of their screen that everyone saw.

These are the people who polluted ranked.

Pandemic Punch9/9/2019, 7:21:13 PM4 votes

Majority of players climb higher than others only because their mechanics are slightly better. It has little to do with game knowledge unfortunately for us Support or Tank players.

ModCaliCoastReplay9/9/2019, 4:12:58 PM4 votes

Poor fundamentals are a problem all the way up through Gold as a general rule. A lot of players skip the tutorial. A lot of players never push behind their waves. A lot of players think the game is about champion fights and not objectives. I do believe it's a contributor to the complaints about poor matchmaking that are coming up increasingly.

I don't know the right answer. I'd love to say that a video series could be released that would teach players about these things, but then you'd actually have to force everyone to watch it, and then people would complain about that.

More nudges in the direction of learning the fundamentals of the game, and making it easier for players to understand how bad fundamentals hurt winrates and the entire team, are certainly indicated.

Tin Obliterates9/9/2019, 11:58:47 AM3 votes

My favorite is when my 0/7 botlane keeps trying to win 2v2s and then shits on everyone else for not being able to do anything against the fed enemy Kai'sa Yuumi combo.

preternatural9/9/2019, 9:57:27 AM3 votes

oh this is easy

because role select. like duh, hello? here come the down votes from people who know nothing about nothing. moderator message too for literally no reason.

Mártir9/9/2019, 7:18:42 PM3 votes

best post i ve read in long time, wp

Xhaiden9/9/2019, 8:17:22 PM2 votes

Cause humans are not like machines (who tend to perform bad only while malfunctioning). There's good days and bad days. And sometimes people try to ignore the bad days by playing LoL. That, or they're simply "not in the zone" - for some reason (more often than not - it's cause they're tilted from previous losses and they play the game mechanically at that point - just hoping for a win and go to sleep/eat/movies/whatever).

WalkingInACircle9/9/2019, 5:47:42 PM2 votes

There are many things in this game that are good, but only when done as a team effort.

Radiant Wukong9/9/2019, 10:00:39 PM2 votes

Doesn't matter if you're B5 or D1, people will be people in solo queue.

BigFBear9/10/2019, 12:56:12 AM2 votes

How do you know how bad people play in Dia when you peaked low plat?

Lost R9/10/2019, 2:57:57 AM2 votes

I played a game (Jungle Pantheon) where we had a VERY problematic Fiddlesticks. I built Magic Resist in response and led the team in kills by a mile and a half. When I showed a screenshot of the scoreboard to someone, they went into a screaming rage over my build because "it wasn't meta", not because nobody else could score a kill or that they were absolutely dead set exclusively on teamfighting and clumping up against a goddamn FIDDLESTICKS. No, my build was apparently the only problem and what made us lose.

League players, I have discovered, think in an extremely linear fashion, and force themselves and others to think in an extremely linear fashion, and only base their decisions on arbitrary meta statistics or what other people tell them they should build. Anybody who doesn't do that is branded a heretic.

And then we wonder why so many young people continue to take up smoking when they are so determined to succumb to peer pressure and confirmity. In a way, this mentality reminds me of this scene.

Without thinking about what you are facing against, without adapting as the situation is needed, by forcing yourself to stick to a single, linear path no matter what, it puts you in a position and mentality where even the minions could best you in a battle of wits without even trying.

Crescent Dusk9/10/2019, 6:38:59 AM2 votes

{quoted}

I thought that as I climbed up out of bronze, then out of silver, into gold, and finally into high gold/low plat where I am now, I would see an increase in game knowledge. It only makes sense right? Higher elo players have played the game longer, they've climbed up higher than me, earlier than me. Some are better mechanically than I will ever be. So why is it some of the basic, fundamental concepts are lost completely on players even reaching up into the diamond elo?

Vision control is ignored completely. people dive for objectives blind. My junglers are face-checking the enemy blue-buff without so much as a scuttle or blue trinket. When I jungle my laners demand an objective be taken despite no vision control and the enemy jungler being MIA, spamming me with question mark pings as I try to drop wards before hand. They'll try to flank a lone enemy through the enemy's territory with no wards down and get furious at their team when they get blown up by the rest of the enemy team that were moving to assist. Most marksmen don't both helping their supports contest wards, put pinks down, or even use their free yellow trinkets. It's not uncommon to see a match end where the marksmen and both solo laners don't even have 20 ward score. These are usually the same people that are permanently pushing and can't seem to avoid a gank, for obvious reasons. It's depressing to look at the stats by the end of the game and see me over 100 ward score for a long game and the rest of my team not even hitting 40 apiece.

Or how about team composition. Enemy team locks in Master Yi and Vayne and yet my team will proceed to lock in carries with no CC across the board, then wonder why we can't lock those two down long enough to kill them come late game. Is that a Rammus Jg and a malphite top for the enemy teams first two log-ins? Better believe you're going to get a mid zed or talon with the rest of your team hard-locking in AD damage. Teams without wave clear, teams without hard engage, teams without CC, teams without AP damage, teams without scaling or objective control. Nearly every single game I play the team is missing one or more of these crucial roles and I cant fill them all at once.

Wave management? Another complete abstract concept to most. Freezing, shoving, pushing, none of it seems to matter. They'll rotate and try to prep for an objective with minions at our inhibs and no map pressure to speak of. They'll continue to hard shove their wave when they are ahead instead of freezing the wave to starve enemy laners of farm, even if they aren't able to actually pressure the turret for plates. If they are behind, instead of last hitting to keep the safety of the turret, they'll hard push and open themselves up to die yet again and lose farm. They wont slow push waves to get them to stack when sieging and don't respond to an enemy baron take by shoving waves while the enemy team backs.

Itemization? You must be joking. The enemy team could have a Soraka, Warwick, Vladimir, and Mundo all wrapped up together and they still won't build grevious wounds. That Rammus + Malphite combo from earlier? They'll build Black Cleaver because it's over powered but they certainly wont build any other form of armor pen. The amount of end-game lobbies I've seen where a mid-lane AP assassin has popped off and the only person with MR on the team is the support with merc boots is downright maddening. Tank itemization is garbage right now, sure, but if the enemy AP threat is instakilling you, there's no reason to not atleast give yourself a chance with a maw or something.

I don't get it. As strange is it might sound, seeing someone miss a skillshot or misposition doesn't bother me. Everything from lag to an honest mistake can cause those and they are usually a sign of poor reflexes or tilt. I get it. It doesn't matter how many BoxBox videos you watch, you're not going to be able to land that combo with riven until you've actually practiced it. The game knowledge is inexcusable. It's one thing to miss a skillshot. It's another thing to miss an entire game concept despite having all the information you need to know built-in to the client. People watch Esports and immediately pick up whatever champ this weeks fan-favorite player is playing. If people are watching the pros and trying to copy, why don't they copy the team-work and macro play instead of just the champions or builds? I'm not a mechanically gifted player. I'm not going to be able to pull off those clutch 1v3's, but you can bet that I understand the importance of my macro play.

I don't know how to fix it. Try bringing any of these up in your solo que matches. Go ahead. See how it works out for you. Tried asking our Mundo jg a little while ago to help me ward the dragon pit. Got called the N-word with a hard R. Granted, his account is almost certainly banned, but that is the reaction people have to gentle advice and polite requests. It is infuriating. Every game I play is being hard won or lost on macro play and teamwork. I don't know what I would have to do to get my teams to just think about the things listed above for mere moments.

This game teaches people to be selfish. It diminishes your gold/xp if someone is in your lane, your gold gets split if you don't land the killing blow, making a roam possibly not worthwhile at 150g when a missed minion wave is worth far more plus xp.

Because all that matters is that YOU get fed/farm to get items to not be snowballed on, the game from the get-go cultivates players that just want to pad the KDA score.

This is why below challenger very few people will build scimitar into malzahar or warwick or bramble vest rush against nasus/aatrox/renekton.

It's why most laners will afk in lane farming and not help their jungler who's getting invaded right next by the river just 10 seconds away from them.

This game teaches absolute self-absorption because those who play it have the mentality that this game allows them to 1v9 if they can outfarm and get fed to carry, so they don't have to worry about team work or comp. It's all about what they want and tough shit for everyone else.

It's why you get ranged top laner picks in a team with zero/just one tank jungler and no tank support, denying you a frontline (because they only care about winning their lane, not the match).

Hi im 129/10/2019, 12:44:44 PM1 votes

So why is it some of the basic, fundamental concepts are lost completely on players even reaching up into the diamond elo?

because diamond is low elo and you don't have to be good at everything to get to it, you are missing some shit that seems very basic to other people at your elo as well, different strokes for different folks or some shit

Wen2949/10/2019, 3:58:47 PM1 votes

Basically, learning this stuff takes effort. Effort that a lot of people, including me, can't be bothered to take. At best it'll make you play better. Does it make the game more enjoyable? Eh, I don't think it would make much of a difference. It's not like i play league to climb, I don't care all THAT much about how high my game knowledge is. I can't be bothered to look up tutorials and shit for this stuff, when it doesn't give me any enjoyment in return. After all, enjoyment is what i play this game for to begin with.

KnightLakega9/11/2019, 2:41:55 AM1 votes

I honestly believe its a problem because a series of events occur and nobody stops to think about the long term.

  1. Someone first learning League does these things, then realizes it doesn't matter... its all bout you not the team. The team is gonna fail 90% of the time and it doesn't matter how well you build or optimize your build. So they don't. they stop trying, and slowly forget how to even do it, because they lost several hundreds of ranked games season after season while trying to properly build, ward, etc, and their team keeps throwing the games.

  2. They don't realize, that by them stopping, and everyoene lse doing the same, then nothing will get better.

As another example It's like when a really good game has a low population, or semi long Q times.. In the reviews I'll see "Nobody plays, sucks, would be a good game." THOUSANDS Of these reviews... if they all actually played instead of taking that mentality, the game WOULD have all those players they want...

Its the same mentality except in League.. Because "nobody plays" or in this case, plays the item/ward/objective game.. They don't either, because 1 person doing it wont change anything.

Its a disgusting and stupid mentality, but, people are stupid as a whole and very blind to anything that isn't right in front of their noses. Just how humans are.

Illabethe9/14/2019, 5:45:33 PM1 votes

To be fair: AP Assassins' damage tends to outscale magic resist dramatically, especially if they started their snowball. Often it's better to build a stronger offensive build and kill them before they execute you than to build tons of mag resist, because they eventually catch up.

Fizz..... Mag resist works the first 20 minutes of the game. After 20 min, you've heavily invested in resist, and he gets Mag pen and just destroys you again. Katarina and LB both overkill, so once they have Void staff, the resist no longer helps.

So, I could see people building raw HP over mag resist in those situations.

The rest: People get tired, play tired, and don't play every game in a calm collected manner. Once you are fatigued, your reaction time and more importantly spacial awareness drops dramatically. That's probably why in high elo.

Low elo they just don't know better.