Do not buff Ryze yet

Danjeng·Jul 29, 2016·87 votes·4,674 views

It's undeniable that the win rate is very low, but it's only been a patch. I remember Ryze being buffed in patch 5.10, then being hit by torrent of nerfs until he was in the spot he was. I plead to leave Ryze unchanged for a few patches, before observing how he does in various levels of play.

Never had more than 4 upvotes before. Keep practicing, and you will master the Rune Mage!

Edit a month later: My win rate for past 20 Ryze games is 65%. Much better than pre-VGU Ryze. Edit 8 months later: He got nerfs even! Well I'm down to 58%. Keep trying.

69 Comments

Jeddy017Jul 30, 201616 votes

Yeah, Taliyah had a low win rate on release like Ryze does now. After a few patches of players playing her & a few buffs, her win rate went from 38% to 53% on average with a 60% win rate for players who were experienced with her. Of course this was before the W changes.

Ryze's win rate will surely go up as people learn to play him, especially for those who aim to master him.

OyddAWqJ5rJul 30, 201611 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Taliyah had a low win rate on release like Ryze does now. After a few patches of players playing her & a few buffs

Jeddy017Jul 30, 20162 votes

Okay...................................and? Care to explain yourself or is that all you're planning on saying?

DrahcirJul 30, 20168 votes

& a few buffs

Jeddy017Jul 30, 20161 votes

Yes, she was buffed.....and? Was I suppose to lie & say she wasn't buffed? Is there something you people want me to say? Simply quoting what I said tells me nothing.

I was just using her as an example of a champion with a low winrate on release.Yes, she was eventually buffed. Were those buffs really necessary? I don't know.

ThaurronJul 30, 20161 votes

Those buffs were definitely necessary, especially the most recent one which altered how her w was cast.

The bonus damage to minions better established her niche (shove the lane then roam) while the reduced duration on worked ground made it a bit less annoying.

Ashu PrimuJul 30, 20162 votes

I agree. I just faced some good Ryzes, and man he's really strong. They shouldn't buff him... maybe nerf him kappa. I expect his winrate to go up as soon as the ryze mains figure him out. He's actually broken imo xdd.

MaizieaJul 30, 20165 votes

In my opinion the new ryze deals way too much damage but for some reason people just can't play him. I've seen so many ryze players lately that are just completely useless and have no idea what they're doing, but when you come across that one guy who actually hits his E-Q you get blown up. He has a good range, he is tanky for a mage, he has CC, a really good utility ult once people start using it properly, and he can deal tons of AoE damage with almost no cooldown lategame.

ThaurronJul 30, 20161 votes

I've been doing fine on him (in silver, admittedly). He scales like crazy once you get Seraph's and at three items (Rod, Seraph's and Morello's plus CDR boots) he gets just over 400 AP. After the first item you can clear entire waves with your e-e-q (or e a minion to kill it, or kill an e'd minion with q, etc.) and you get some pretty impressive kill potential as well. Also the 2-second snare is amazing for any damage focused junglers ganking your lane.

CoolKnightSTJul 29, 20164 votes

I tried him & he feels weak in the early game. But he still scales massively. I think it's risky to buff a champions with an AOE tf ult.

ArakadiaJul 29, 201612 votes

It's not really a to ult. Much lower range, no vision bonus, and horrible range at rank one.

CoolKnightSTJul 30, 20164 votes

I have a feeling the rank 1 ult has more a use as a disengage function. Basicly a safethy net.

ThaurronJul 30, 20161 votes

It's good enough for getting over walls, especially for entering/escaping the dragon pit, which is where the best level one ulti plays seem to occur.

Auz the RipperJul 30, 20161 votes

Some off the most successful uses I've seen from ryze's ult was as a disengage

NegusInParisJul 30, 20161 votes

I really hate how the ult is leveled using Ohly 2 points.

ArakadiaJul 30, 20164 votes

Its so your allies don't have to learn 3 different ranges.

The Taco KatJul 30, 20162 votes

His early game is actually amazing if you start E level 1. It only has a 2.25 second cd and more wave clear and higher DPS than his Q. Just leveling it first pressures the lane opponent into their tower very early.

SpongebobIsLifeJul 30, 20163 votes

He won't be. People are still just figuring him out. It took me almost 10 games till I could reliably combo with him. Also, he has good spikes. His early game isn't weak but it's not threatening. He isn't really noticeable till about level 10. Also, he has the weakest level 6 out of all the midlaners.

Most SurpRyze NAJul 30, 20163 votes

Main problem with Ryze is that he takes far too long to do any damage of relevancy, whereas people like Cassiopeia can solo kill you at level 6 very, very easily. He's basically suffering the same problem Karma used to.

Memeguel420Jul 29, 20162 votes

I agree. Riot should let people figure him out a little more before the buff a champ that is balanced when you know how to play them.

AstôlfoJul 30, 20162 votes

Ryze is extremely strong. His ability spam is pretty much the same as ever, his E offers quick and strong waveclear, and his ult is extremely versatile and useful. However, the problem with this is even after laning phase (where Ryze can just spam E/autos/occasional Q) over and over to completely deny and harass the enemy laner, his ult is now necessary to help his team. His ult is also something that takes a lot of knowledge on when would be best time to use, where to send it, who to send, so on and so forth. This new Ryze is, well, new. So people don't know that many things in regards to his ult yet.

Once people learn him, it's almost obvious that his winrate will skyrocket. The same has happened for just about every other new champion in recent times. People don't know how to play but play them in Ranked anyways = low winrates. People learn how to play = suddenly spiking massively high winrates.

OdinakosJul 30, 20161 votes

Yasuo, Azir same story. Low win rate at release, a couple months and few buffs later the most oppresive champions. Irelia was lauphing at the upcoming wave of nerfs!

Lady HammerlockJul 30, 20162 votes

he will probably get better when people actually learn how to play him

CaythelesJul 30, 20162 votes

Exactly, ryze is strong enough right now. i mastered him and i must say he is strong and has his weaknesses.

Twerk a FishJul 30, 20162 votes

IMO his early game should be nerfed/changed. ATM he can completely bully any champion tht has lower range than him out of lane... I absolutely don't get why Riot gave him stronger early game when they wanted to keep the hard scaling and ability-spam mechanics.

My Waifu VanillaJul 30, 20162 votes

Except his early game is still rather trash unless you do not know how to dodge a Q that he will throw out the second he E's you (you have a lot of time to prepare to dodge). He runs out of mana pretty fast until Tear+Cata and even then he does "meh" damage since he has no AP.

ThaurronJul 30, 20161 votes

The harass isn't just from his q aimed at you, it's if he kills a minion with e while you're nearby. That's guaranteed damage unless you can move away quickly

morris1Aug 1, 20161 votes

Because he's also weaker late game. No more free spell vamp, no more massive AoE damage, no more permaroots.

JESUSSAYSNOJul 30, 20162 votes

Ryze is one of the most mechanically demanding characters in the game, but landing combos does respectable damage. he doesnt need a nerf when he can produce absurdly strong burst and sustained dps in the hands of a moderately skilled player.

ZhireJul 30, 20162 votes

mechanically demanding? are we playing the same game here? either you're a troll or you actually have no idea what ryze's kit is.

morris1Jul 30, 20161 votes

Why? Have you even played the new Ryze? You can't just do a normal QWEQWE and expect to do damage, you have to arrange the combos in a short amount of time otherwise you simply die cuz you're not tanky anymore.

TFBaamJul 30, 20161 votes

not really the combo is just EWQEEQ repeat EEQ until you have W for EWQ or just EWQEQEQEQEQ if you dont care about getting a shield. it took me a max of 3 games to figure this out. maybe the issue people have is that his first spike is item 3070 and then after that is a half way stacked item 3027

ThaurronJul 30, 20161 votes

The more efficient combo is Q-W-Q-E-Q-E-Q repeat until dead. You don't need to keep filling up the rune unless you need the movespeed and shield. Also the the E-W isn't necessary unless you really need to lock them down.

TFBaamJul 30, 20161 votes

QW doesnt give ms I need to catch up to them, or time to run around minions/position myself. the shield is also nice since its just a root they can retaliate. ur combo is more of a tons-of-damage mine is more of minimal-damage-taken

9kPluzZJul 30, 20161 votes

In that case your better off with qeqweqeq more damage and you should always start with q if you can.

TFBaamJul 31, 20161 votes

q yea i should start with but the combo i use gives me more survivability

JESUSSAYSNOJul 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

mechanically demanding? are we playing the same game here? either you're a troll or you actually have no idea what ryze's kit is.

He has more combos than any other character in the entire game, each one consisting of between 2 and I want to say 6 spellscasts, each imput must be punched as fast as possible otherwise you loose dps, burst, and durability. In addition to having many, many combos, unlike riven, he doesnt have an AA to fall back on for damage, so you MUST be proficient in both decision making and mechanical skill when playing ryze.

ZhireJul 31, 20161 votes

Ryze's kit literally has 2 point and click. That is not mechanically demanding at all. It's also not that hard to press buttons in order...

JESUSSAYSNOJul 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Ryze's kit literally has 2 point and click. That is not mechanically demanding at all. It's also not that hard to press buttons in order...

he has 5 spells to cast in a 2.25 second window without cdr, if you can't maintain imput level of ~2.5 APS while managing positioning, you can't effectively play ryze.

QEQWQEQ is his core combo that takes place in the duration of 3 seconds. Tell me how the fuck that's not mechanically demanding.

ZhireJul 31, 20161 votes

Like I said, pressing buttons quickly isn't really mechanically demanding. W and E is point and click so that's easy. Q isn't even that hard to land as you have W to snare them. As for positioning, that becomes second nature as you play the game more... Also, Ryze doesn't have a "core combo". His rework gave him many different combos for different situation. You can't just use one combo and expect it to work all the time. It takes time to learn and memorize all the combos but that doesn't necessarily mean that the combos are hard to pull off.

BeddlamJul 30, 20162 votes

His winrate has dropped from 6.13 to 6.14. Even the most experienced players are only managing about 48% winrate on him. I agree that he should not be touched in 6.15, but if his winrate stays sub-40% he is going to need some help. Remember that as players learn how to play him, players are also learning to play against him, and he has some pretty definite counter-play, especially in lane.

RozzetaJul 30, 20162 votes

I think Rize needs a rework.

Mojihito666Jul 30, 20161 votes

You made my day.

General Esdeath Jul 30, 20161 votes

Buffing him?!? He already does more damage than old Ryze, he just can't do it to 3 people at a time anymore.

atomicwitJul 30, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Buffing him?!? He already does more damage than old Ryze, he just can't do it to 3 people at a time anymore.

That matters a lot.

General Esdeath Jul 30, 20161 votes

He does as much damage, but on one person now.*

MunchCrunchLunchJul 31, 20161 votes

same thing happened to poppy and new champions. jhin winrate was pretty damn low until it went really high. poppy got nerfed pretty hard eventually. lets not forget taliah. had even lower winrates than ryze than what do you know she just got really strong because people knew how to use her after a while

rtbf76109271Jul 31, 20161 votes

I agree he is plenty strong. While testing him out I got a triple kill really easily. It doesn't matter if it was my own team dying in their spawn. 3 of them died to fountain = my triple kill

ZedexJul 31, 20161 votes

I've been playing a decent amount of him in normals, Twisted Treeline and Summoners Rift both, and I have to say he feels a little on the strong side. Just seems to have a steeper learning curve. Trouble is players still using him like old ryze, it just doesn't work.

QweraRandolphzAug 1, 20161 votes

I think he needs a 10th rework tbh the ult is way too random with his kit

http://www.pvpdatabase.com/?p=1253