Nerf Ignite

PHD Dunk·Aug 22, 2018·90 votes·19,523 views

"For a while now, Heal and Teleport have been outclassing Ignite mid lane, especially in pro play. To increase diversity in Summoner spells, we're pushing a bit more power into Ignite."

Meanwhile nerfs teleport, and now rare play in Solo Q, which is 99.9% of the population that play league Heal got reverted recently, but ignite still has the advantage with a 210 second cooldown compared to 240 Teleport is now 360 seconds

Whats the big deal with no Ignite nerfs? Do you enjoy having 3/4 ignites every game, True damage thats been added so much more so defenses doesnt matter (Another topic) and to top it all off has a grevious wound on top of it, meaning if the person HAD heal, he'd still most likely die from it

Or just buff other summoners that are being outclassed. Heal being reverted does not count

56 Comments

420 gramsAug 22, 201812 votes

Nerf flash

Lil Homie bustaAug 22, 201837 votes

Yes, increase the gap between Immobile and mobile champions even more.

Look, i get that Flash is overpowered. But this spell is so rooted in the game's heart that it would take a dedicated pre season just to rework it.

Ignite on the other hand has no excuse.

TotalJerkAug 23, 20181 votes

Plus the dynamic of its cooldown during the laning phase adds depth to the game, IMO. Especially for junglers.

TeCoolMageAug 23, 20183 votes

I want flash to be removed so mobile champions can get gutted by having all their cooldowns increased and damage decreased lol

NineTailedMysticAug 23, 20183 votes

That's not what would happen lol.

TeCoolMageAug 23, 20183 votes

that's what should happen lol

RavenMagusAug 23, 20183 votes

Yes, increase the gap between Immobile and mobile champions even more.

On the one hand, mobile champions are often also the sort that will click on you and you die, whereas immobile champions are often skillshot based and thus get completely wrecked by having their abilities dodged with flash. If a mage and an assassin both have flash, there's no trade, the assassin just wins.

On the other hand, having no flash means those mages are free food for junglers to come and kill.

So yeah, there's a lot to think about for flash.

Z3SleeperAug 23, 20181 votes

On the other other hand, immobiles typically have (or at least should have) devastating abilities given they can get in range to use them, meaning flashing on a mobile champion and blowing your load is far more potent than the opposite scenario.

Ofcourse, that's assuming it's balanced to be like that so mobile champions don't also deal far more damage in a faster burst than immobile champions. One day maybe.

THE RlVER KlNGAug 24, 20181 votes

is the first part sarcasm? lol

Z3SleeperAug 24, 20181 votes

It might as well be.

BlakiepugAug 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lil Homie busta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mm6mf0YN,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-08-22T23:42:43.478+0000)

Yes, increase the gap between Immobile and mobile champions even more.

Look, i get that Flash is overpowered. But this spell is so rooted in the game's heart that it would take a dedicated pre season just to rework it.

Ignite on the other hand has no excuse.

Yeah, yeah. Everyone keeps spewing this excuse with no evidence and it's getting mega annoying. For one, we have never seen what the game would look like without flash (not even on the PBE) so we can't say definitively that that would increase the gap between mobile and immobile champs. It may be suspected, but that doesn't mean that is what will actually happen. Secondly, 420 grams was not saying to remove flash, but rather he asked for flash to be nerfed. God forbid flash gets 30-60 seconds added to its cooldown. I'm sure that would break the game like you say /s.

VerxintAug 24, 20182 votes

I actually want to see what the game is like without flash. I think it would be interesting

NorglicsAug 24, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lil Homie busta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mm6mf0YN,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-08-22T23:42:43.478+0000)

Yes, increase the gap between Immobile and mobile champions even more.

Look, i get that Flash is overpowered. But this spell is so rooted in the game's heart that it would take a dedicated pre season just to rework it.

Ignite on the other hand has no excuse.

nerf flash btw every champ uses this crap , it is nearly mandatory , just nerf flash and nerf the op jumpy insta kill champs

VerxintAug 24, 20181 votes

I've argued they should seriously change flash for seasons or they'll have a problem they can't fix without uprooting the game

d4rkshockAug 24, 20181 votes

summoner 4 is impossible to balance.its just like Rengar Mordekaiser where they are either super broken or weak as shit.

wildfox99Aug 22, 201810 votes

heal is supposed to be countered by ignite,i don't see any problem if it actually does it

heal gives utility (burst of MS and heal for you and your ally) you can't expect it to be as effective as other defensive summoner spells

if you want to counter ignite here it is summoner 1 (same CD as ignite), summoner 21 so you can block the damage from the ignite user kit (its shield power is similar to ignite damage but with less CD) or summoner 3 ,same as barrier you'll block your opponent damage so ignite won't be enough for killing you,same CD as ignite and in the best case it can block from a bursty campion up to 400~450 damage lvl 6 (ignite damage at this lvl 205) and over 2000 in lategame

if anything i'd suggest to revert summoner 12 nerfs,no point to gut a summoner spell just because another one got gutted,just buff the weak one

UnboundHadesAug 22, 20187 votes

most people that complain about ignite probably dont even know cleanse gets rid of it

NøstalgiaAug 23, 20182 votes

Not the point, as a mage midlaner you are not gonna take cleanse into an assassin that has ignite, it would be a total waste

Same point as a toplaner,why would you take cleanse ? You have no idea if the opponent will have ignite and it wont be worth it anyways,

The only situations i see this working is midlane against heavy cc oponents or botlane situationaly

Somber RitesAug 23, 20181 votes

Maybe, but those of us who did know that are left wondering why the fuck we should care.

I play toplane bruisers like Yorick and Urgot .

Cleanse is not an option for me, because I have no idea if the enemy is even going to TAKE ignite, and even if they do, I can't risk sacrificing Teleport, (which is very weak, but still necessary for my champs), or flash.

And mid lane, it'd be be better to just take barrier or heal if you think you might get killed.

Take cleanse bot against people with fully developed brains and see how that goes.

Jungle, LuL.

Cleanse removing the damage from ignite doesn't make the damn thing worth taking over any other summoner spell, because there is no reliable way to predict whether or not it will actually help you, unless you're laning against a Malzahar .

Dope SoloAug 22, 20183 votes

People aren't just using ignite to get around cleanse, they're using it to bully early lane and cheese.

wildfox99Aug 23, 20181 votes

how they can bully you with ignite if cleanse negates its effects + any eventual CC?

[sg-lux-2]

this summoner spell is really understimated doesn't it?

º Lamb calls ºAug 23, 20182 votes

{quoted}

how they can bully you with ignite if cleanse negates its effects + any eventual CC?

[sg-lux-2]

this summoner spell is really understimated doesn't it?

It's rather flawed to say use Cleanse to negate part of Ignite when Cleanse should be used to avoid CC that would generally cause death, such as Lux Q to avoid part of her combo. Also, Cleanse doesn't negate the followup CC, just reduces it for 3 seconds.

Unless something changed this season, Cleanse doesn't remove the GW portion of ignite, only the damage portion due to the fact Ignite and the GW are two separate things.

wildfox99Aug 23, 20181 votes

It's rather flawed to say use Cleanse to negate part of Ignite when Cleanse should be used to avoid CC that would generally cause death, such as Lux Q to avoid part of her combo. Also, Cleanse doesn't negate the followup CC, just reduces it for 3 seconds.

some ignite users will also CC you,you pick it against them so it can be used in both cases,anyway reducing a CC by 65% is really useful (a 2 sec CC would last 0.7 sec)

instead if you only want to counter your enemy burst summoner 21 and summoner 3 are as effective as ignite is in offense

Storn SaroeAug 23, 20181 votes

There are some flaws in your reasoning but I get what you are saying, I do think ignite at the moment does outclass barrier and exhaust in most situations because of how easy it is to get value from it (although a well timed exhaust onto a high burst damage target can be way, way more valuable). However numbers wise there are very few situations where barrier outperforms ignite. Ignite from about lvl 5 (I think) onwards does more damage then barrier blocks plus ignite deals grievous wounds. Not to mention barrier only lasts 2 seconds so even in the best case scenario which is level 1 where the raw shield is decently higher if you were to only use barrier and ignite in a trade a perfectly timed barrier would only block about 3/5ths of the damage from ignite meaning for it to be more valuable you would also need take a chunk of damage from the enemy champion within the 2 seconds and this does not take into consideration the grievous wounds value. In general despite its relatively low cooldown barrier is almost always outclassed by other summoner spells except for very niche circumstances as well as being one of the harder ones to maximise the efficiency of. I personally think regardless of if ignite stays the same or is nerfed Barrier needs a buff.

WolfeurAug 23, 20182 votes

It's rather flawed to say use Cleanse to negate part of Ignite when Cleanse should be used to avoid CC

Cleanse is a survivability tool. I've avoided a lot of ignite kills with it. I don't care if it's "meant" for CC. I survived thanks to it, and nothing elso could have, so I used it correctly.

Oakleaf RangerAug 23, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=º Lamb calls º,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mm6mf0YN,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-23T02:56:37.486+0000)

It's rather flawed to say use Cleanse to negate part of Ignite when Cleanse should be used to avoid CC that would generally cause death, such as Lux Q to avoid part of her combo. Also, Cleanse doesn't negate the followup CC, just reduces it for 3 seconds.

Unless something changed this season, Cleanse doesn't remove the GW portion of ignite, only the damage portion due to the fact Ignite and the GW are two separate things.

And I think its flawed that people are complaining that heal is weakened after using it after ignite or that barrier doesn't last long enough to block all of ignite.

Summoner spells don't exist to counter each or at as a direct counter to each other.

Barrier is to counter burst damage. Ignite is a dot that inflicts grievous wounds to finish off an opponent.

If people are still going compare heal/barrier to ignite like they are supposed to be their counters after acknowledging this, then let me put a label on them that says stupid.

Vlada CutAug 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

how they can bully you with ignite if cleanse negates its effects + any eventual CC?

[sg-lux-2]

this summoner spell is really understimated doesn't it?

Because people are smart enough to bait you into using cleanse with CC spells and the ingite you after cleanse's duration is over?

wildfox99Aug 23, 20181 votes

they bait you something and they actually get rewarded? wow,where did you find it out?

i mean if they did it it means they played better than you,if you get baited you shouldn't complain about it because it's your fault

if you got hit by a CC and you needed to use cleanse it means they would have killed you without this summoner spell,you already saved your life using it once you can't expect it to make you unkillable

ChîmoyaAug 22, 20182 votes

Exhaust doesn't work on true damage (ignite). Ignite already counters heal with the grievous wounds, and will do more damage than heal heals you, no need for a lower cd as well. Ignite damage ticks for 5 seconds, barrier lasts for only 2 seconds, so you only block 2/5 of the damage.

wildfox99Aug 23, 20181 votes

unless ignite is not able to oneshot you with summoner 3 / summoner 21 you'll block the damage coming from your enemy kit

X champion deals you 800 damage and ignites you for 200 (= 1000 damage done)

this time you use barrier and block 200 damage from his rotation (800 - 200 = 600),he uses ignite and deals 200 damage (600 + 200 = 800,it's like nobody used any summoner spell),you didn't block ignite damage but the result it's the same

Storn SaroeAug 23, 20181 votes

Ignite is actually front loaded slightly so it is more like 3/5ths at early levels when the shield value is higher, although ignite does scale better and in almost no case is someone going to be dealing no damage when they place ignite unless they are just using it to execute.

Neptunia xoxoAug 22, 20182 votes

{quoted}

heal is supposed to be countered by ignite,i don't see any problem if it actually does it

heal gives utility (burst of MS and heal for you and your ally) you can't expect it to be as effective as other defensive summoner spells

if you want to counter ignite here it is (same CD as ignite), so you can block the damage from the ignite user kit (its shield power is similar to ignite damage but with less CD) or ,same as barrier you'll block your opponent damage so ignite won't be enough for killing you,same CD as ignite and in the best case it can block from a bursty campion up to 400~450 damage lvl 6 (ignite damage at this lvl 205) and over 2000 in lategame

if anything i'd suggest to revert nerfs,no point to gut a summoner spell just because another got gutted,just buff the weak one

Have you actually seen the damage ignite does? especially levels 10 and higher? it literally does more damage than a lot of ultis and huge core abilities lol

wildfox99Aug 23, 20182 votes

especially levels 10 and higher?

lvl 10 ignite damage should be like ~20 more higher than summoner 21 shield,lvl 18 the difference it's about 50 but don't forget barrier CD is still lower than ignite (and anyway the difference it's not abysmal)...instead have you tried to see how much damage can a mid/lategame summoner 3 mitigate? over 1000 damage or summoner 1 removing any CC and/or ignite and giving you 65% tenacity?

it literally does more damage than a lot of ultis and huge core abilities lol

only if you don't consider the scalings,and anyway i could say the same about defensive spells

R35URR3C710NAug 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

heal is supposed to be countered by ignite,i don't see any problem if it actually does it

heal gives utility (burst of MS and heal for you and your ally) you can't expect it to be as effective as other defensive summoner spells

if you want to counter ignite here it is (same CD as ignite), so you can block the damage from the ignite user kit (its shield power is similar to ignite damage but with less CD) or ,same as barrier you'll block your opponent damage so ignite won't be enough for killing you,same CD as ignite and in the best case it can block from a bursty campion up to 400~450 damage lvl 6 (ignite damage at this lvl 205) and over 2000 in lategame

if anything i'd suggest to revert nerfs,no point to gut a summoner spell just because another one got gutted,just buff the weak one

Because it feels so great to have to waste an entire summoner spell slot just to counter one person's ignite. Not to mention most teams run 3-4 ignites nowadays. Ignite has its place in the game, but it is currently much too strong.

WolfeurAug 23, 20182 votes

"Damn, I needed a summoner spell to counter the enemy's summoner spell! What a bad trade!"

wildfox99Aug 23, 20181 votes

Because it feels so great to have to waste an entire summoner spell slot just to counter one person's ignite

your enemy is wasting his ignite as well,if you are picking a defensive summoner spell it's because you want to survive so it's not a waste (you are both trading one of your summoner spells),if instead you don't want to play defensively you get ignite

Not to mention most teams run 3-4 ignites nowadays. Ignite has its place in the game, but it is currently much too strong.

so you want 1 summoner spell countering 3/4 other summoner spells alone?

i don't get your logic,if 3/4 people are going on you ignite it's the last of your problems

R35URR3C710NAug 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

your enemy is wasting his ignite as well,if you are picking a defensive summoner spell it's because you want to survive so it's not a waste (you are both trading one of your summoner spells),if instead you don't want to play defensively you get ignite

so you want 1 summoner spell countering 3/4 other summoner spells alone?

i don't get your logic,if 3/4 people are going on you ignite it's the last of your problems

Except the person taking ignite has far more choices for using it than you do taking cleanse. While, yes, cleanse also negates CC, in this CC heavy environment negating a single CC effect rarely makes a difference. You're almost always going to save your spell for an ignite, which you have to wait for your opponent to choose to use on you. They hold all of the power of choice over you, for a single effect, and they still have a net advantage in that some of ignite's damage is frontloaded, you're going to be taking some true damage no matter what, and it procs electrocute to boot. They also have the advantage of choice to use it on other players who don't run cleanse, meaning their summoner spell has far more use outside of your 1v1 scenario. Your summoner exists only to negate theirs, theirs exists to be used on anyone.

KhristophorosAug 22, 20187 votes

Bring back Exhaust

Morgana ExcellusAug 23, 20187 votes

Why exactly does ignite exist as a summoner spell anyway? It's bland and lazy design. I guess the grevious wounds part is okay, but it's mostly just used for raw damage. We have abilities and auto attacks to do damage. Why do we need a summoner spell to do something that already exists as part of every champion's base kit?

At least exhaust is strategic. Hell, if ignite said "inflicts grevious wounds and makes the target take 20% more damage from all sources" or something similar it would be more strategic. Just a flat 200 some damage is boring and not very creative.

theChibiTinaAug 23, 20185 votes

505 true damage at level 18 with grievous wounds.

Raid Boss MordeAug 23, 20183 votes

If Ignite gave grevious wounds and amplified the damage the target took, it would be so much more broken than it already is. DFG was removed for a reason.

LTK KoRoAug 23, 20184 votes

Why exactly does heal exist as a summoner spell anyway? It's bland and lazy design. I guess the speed boost part is okay, but it's mostly just used for raw healing. We have potions and health regeneration to restore health. Why do we need a summoner spell to do something that already exists as part of every champion's base kit?

Why exactly does ghost exist as a summoner spell anyway? It's bland and lazy design. I guess the ramp up part is okay, but it's mostly just used for raw movement speed. We have boots and base movement speed to move fast. Why do we need a summoner spell to do something that already exists as part of every champion's base kit?

Summoners spells are supposed to be simple. Ignite exists because: some champions want bonus damage, and some champions need proactive summoners like ignite, instead of reactive summoners like Cleanse/Barrier/Heal. A lot of summoner spells give us protection or safety, but only ignite is 100% proactive combat focused. We could use better spells which have same niche at ignite, and until we won't have them, we'll be stuck with it.

KETSU0Aug 23, 20181 votes

"why does summoner 7 need to exist is lazy and bland". See how easily that can be flipped? beside exhaust is not skillful at all, halving a champs dmg with the click of a button is less skillful imo.

Noor SakataAug 22, 20184 votes

It really need nerfs..

LeagueOfLuckersAug 23, 20182 votes

Yes nerf ignite so Riot "I wish I could call them what they are but I'll get banned" Games can give out compensation buffs to every assassin because: "What's the point of nerfs on assassins really?"

SexyBeastBEARAug 23, 20182 votes

l0l

Vlada CutAug 23, 20181 votes

I agree. I quit using summoner 12 and started using summoner 14 on Top lane again. Boi, it's been spicy af ever since I started using it again.

KlRlUSAug 23, 20181 votes

Got filled top last night, their top was Kat with electrocute and ignite. She all inned me level 4 with no items and ignite did 25% of my HP Electrocute did the rest. so dumb

Vlada CutAug 25, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Got filled top last night, their top was Kat with electrocute and ignite. She all inned me level 4 with no items and ignite did 25% of my HP Electrocute did the rest. so dumb

Then get's items and keeps banging you till ya quit.

d4rkshockAug 24, 20181 votes

How often do weeven have 3-4 summoner 14 .the only situation is where you have a burst mage or assassin mid, Pantheon top, Shaco jg, and Pyke support. That's very specific.