Why not upgrading the bots in Leagur of Legends

MØWHA·May 17, 2015·18 votes·1,937 views

Recently i tried to jungle for the "first" time in years (this account isn't my first), and my first game wasn't that good so i thought, hey maybe i could train my jungle skills against bots ! But even when there were 5 players in each team and when i took smite, there was no jungler whatsoever in the other team. So maybe it'll be great to add these kinds of bots, to recreate the same pattern that the one in normal/ranked games. It would be a great tool for new players to train their jungle and i think it would be a great addition to what LoL already has to offer ! (and maybe upgrading the global level of skill of the bots, maybe even add a new difficulty level, because, let's face it, bots aren't a challenge for medium players)

-AtomicSUnset

22 Comments

DurzakaMay 17, 20158 votes

There is absolutely no way to make a jungler bot work without reworking their entire AI (which should happen, but won't).

They would follow generic stupid paths through the jungle, die to camps without leashes at the start, walk into lanes to gank without any set up. etc. etc.

it would just be pointless.

Penguin EclipseMay 17, 20153 votes

The bots could definitely use some help. Those changes they made a year or so ago where a nice start but they ended up making the bots weaker in the end because they became so cowardly.

Faith BreakerMay 17, 20153 votes

This has been discussed before, and it isn't realistically possible at the momment to program jungling AI

Austin CovelloMay 17, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Faith Breaker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MiGnxeF8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-05-17T02:06:26.946+0000)

This has been discussed before, and it isn't realistically possible at the momment to program jungling AI

Bullshit. Here's the evidence that's it's bullshit. If a computer AI can do that, then you can program a computer AI to do anything.

And also, what does a jungler need to do? Roam around the map in a preset pattern killing neutral monster camps with enough fuzzy logic to attempt ganks when the proper conditions are met. They've been doing this in video games since 1981, when they rolled out Pac-Man. The ghost-monsters did pretty much what a Jungler should do, and there were four of them. In LoL, you only need one. I could write the algorithm right here.

Faith BreakerMay 17, 20151 votes

You're rather closed minded and blatantly offensive, are you aware of that?

Austin CovelloMay 18, 20151 votes

And that doesn't make anything I said untrue.

Faith BreakerMay 18, 20151 votes

I didn't take anything you said seriously enough to argue it.

AnidanMay 17, 20151 votes

If you have a bot go around their jungle in preset patterns then you, as a jungler, can so easily abuse them it's absurd. Not only that but since it's a bot, it's naturally going to have poor ability to farm and thus be underlevelled, even for jungler standards, which means the abuse will continue even further. Especially since bots tend to go apeshit on someone lower level than them, which roughly translates to even your own ally bots getting comparatively free kills and snowballing off their jungler.

Play Nunu or Shaco, counterjungle with no real competition. Play a gank-based jungler and counter-gank all day for free gold (because if there's set requirements, you can also read those requirements and react, waiting for him). Not only that, bots don't do vision very well, so depending on your jungler choice you could easily sneak a dragon in without any sort of contest. A bot jungler with their current AI would be absolutely abysmal.

Austin CovelloMay 18, 20151 votes

I hate to break it to you, but that's every bot, including the "intermediate" bots, no matter what their position. In fact, if you want to get technical about it, bot supports are going to be troll supports since they take farm and steal kills. Because they don't know that they're supposed to support. They just know that they go bot. And we're all aware that the current AI isn't suited for jungling. We're talking about changing the AI so that it is suitable for jungling, or building one specifically for jungling.

In fact, what I'd want is a whole new "hard" mode where bots know how to jungle, farm, ward properly, support, and even co-operate with each other to secure buffs on the proper champion (a jungler donating blue to a mid-laner, for example).

CubedJusticeMay 17, 20153 votes

Nobody would mind that, but at the same time, nobody really wants it. It's not a priority at all considering the time it would take to program.

MeesterMooMay 17, 20152 votes

How about some new champs getting AI??? That's more important to me

Austin CovelloMay 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How about some new champs getting AI??? That's more important to me

It's actually gone in the opposite direction. Sona and Veigar were on the AI list, but have been taken off for some reason. I wonder if RIOT would like to elaborate?

All Day Tay TayMay 17, 20152 votes

the problem is that jungling is a very complicated thing. the bots know everything basically. they dont need wards to see, they get gold w/o actually farming (im serious, you can zone them out hard and they have about 20 cs at 15 minutes yet they still have a good build). so counter jungling would be pointless/dangerous since they know your there. if you make their ai simpler then you run into the opposite problems. if it goes for gromp and its not there what does it do? you could make a set path that it follows (gromp>blue>wolves>red>raptors>krugs) and if the step its at isnt there then go to the next one, but then you can exploit it. if you have the pattern then you just stay one step ahead. you do blue>wolves>red>raptors>krugs>gromp. honestly i would just prefer a jungle tutorial. make a set situation for jungling that it walks you step by step through (or multiple situations, since there are many ways to jungle)

Occams RaiserMay 17, 20152 votes

Too hard to code for less than effective results. All though they could cheat with the jungler. He just kills camps in a time equal to you. He would walk a path that mirrored yours.

JayetoMay 17, 20152 votes

as others stated it cant be done yet due to AI. also bots had their difficulty buffed and it made them slightly to strong. i.e. if you were in a bush and entered from the FOW a bot would know youre there and immediately place a ward at you then attack, put that with how fast the react with their teammates (if youre caught by 3 and not fed, then youre dead lol).

as for a challenge they do have DOOM bots event that pops up every year which is fun but as for intermediate bots ive seen golds, silvers, plats, and diamonds get their butts handed to them and claim they are cheap lol (kinda fun at times). but really bots arent suppose to be THAT much of a challenge since they are there to paint how a typical match should run against a comp that kinda counters you. i will say i do miss bots not using flash though, but am glad that jax bot will place a ward to jump away from you to escape xD

WTBeGirl100EUhrMay 17, 20151 votes

The intermediate bots are almost as (if not quite) as awful as the beginner bots. Anyone in silver even should not be "getting their butts handed to them".

JayetoMay 18, 20151 votes

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ive seen more than my fair share of silvers+ getting their butts handed to them in lane and after lane phase by bots (and i would know since i only live in bots)

MØWHAMay 17, 20151 votes

But AT LEAST add some way to tell a bot to go bot lane instead of top lane for example because if you want to upgrade your ADC skills against a new champion to have a better understanding of the matchup, you don't want that jinx to go top and that renekton to go bot full tank with veigar.

Austin CovelloMay 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But AT LEAST add some way to tell a bot to go bot lane instead of top lane for example because if you want to upgrade your ADC skills against a new champion to have a better understanding of the matchup, you don't want that jinx to go top and that renekton to go bot full tank with veigar.

Oh, I see. If you do all bot customs, here's where they'll go:

Your team: First choice: bot Second choice: top Third Choice: bot if you go mid, otherwise mid Fourth Choice: bot if you go top, otherwise top

Other team: First choice: bot Second choice: top Third Choice: mid Fourth Choice: bot Fifth Choice: top

MØWHAMay 18, 20151 votes

It would be easy if you could choose, because it's not marked and at least it should. And still it would be great to choose.

B3ERMay 18, 20151 votes

If their patterns were generalized, the playerbase would figure it out and abuse the fuck out of them. Ok look, fiddle bot jungle. He always starts blue so I'm gonna slam him and steal his blue.

5 minutes later the poor bastard is still level 2.

MØWHAMay 18, 20151 votes

OOps sorry, little error, Leaur of legends ^^