PSA: Swords attacks don't cause AOE

Power Cosmic·Oct 13, 2018·3 votes·2,495 views

Swords can stab and slice. People would question the sanity of a person that would choose a sharp object over a blunt one to cause an AOE ground effect. How tf can a sword attack knock someone up lmao?

44 Comments

Pika FoxOct 13, 20185 votes

Actually, many sword experts still debate how sharp a sword should be for combat, as a perfectly sharp sword cuts cleanly, which heals better, and a slightly dulled sword grips better, which can give some control when the swords bite into each other.

Either way, a sword doesnt stay sharp for long in combat, so its a moot point.

Power CosmicOct 13, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=McBv5HEV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-13T18:11:21.783+0000)

Actually, many sword experts still debate how sharp a sword should be for combat, as a perfectly sharp sword cuts cleanly, which heals better, and a slightly dulled sword grips better, which can give some control when the swords bite into each other.

Either way, a sword doesnt stay sharp for long in combat, so its a moot point.

Answering a question not asked... But swords surely aren't hammers :)

Kai GuyOct 13, 20182 votes

Well, they are war hammer esc when your using mordschlag.

Power CosmicOct 13, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=McBv5HEV,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-13T19:13:35.630+0000)

Well, they are war hammer esc when your using mordschlag

to be fair, i have no clue what you are talking about

Kai GuyOct 13, 20183 votes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordhau_(weaponry)

Folks used grips on the blade for a variety of attacks. Mordschlag is a 2 hands on the blade technique that uses the hilt and pummel of a sword for blunt force. Like a hammer or mace.

Pika FoxOct 13, 20182 votes

Beat me to it, apparently.

Pika FoxOct 13, 20182 votes

Actually, you can grip a sword by the blade and strike with the pommel/guard to deal with armored targets if need be.

Power CosmicOct 13, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=McBv5HEV,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-10-13T19:32:55.274+0000)

Actually, you can grip a sword by the blade and strike with the pommel/guard to deal with armored targets if need be.

Maybe you could explain to me what bliss is like. :D

Pika FoxOct 13, 20182 votes

You said swords arent hammers, i replied with the technique swordsmen have used to deal with needing a blunt weapon when all they had is a sword.

iiGazeiiOct 13, 20183 votes

Anyone who thinks a sword cannot do AoE has never seen somebody wield a greatsword. They have enough momentum to slice cleanly through a man and hit the guy next to him.

Power CosmicOct 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Anyone who thinks a sword cannot do AoE has never seen somebody wield a greatsword. They have enough momentum to slice cleanly through a man and hit the guy next to him.

Definitely, but my post was about AOE ground effect as stated.

RalanrOct 13, 20183 votes

Is this about Aatrox?

Get Ogre HereOct 13, 20189 votes

{quoted}

Is this about Aatrox?

No it's about Riven.

oh wait what's the difference

RalanrOct 13, 20183 votes

Mobility and range.

Power CosmicOct 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Mobility and range.

Aatrox limited mobility and flashes gives him amazing range and the cc he also has makes it actually unmatchable.

RalanrOct 13, 20181 votes

So yes, he has more range and less mobility than Riven. Hence the difference.

Vlada CutOct 14, 20182 votes

{quoted}

So yes, he has more range and less mobility than Riven. Hence the difference.

Bascially both Aatrox and Riven present the same idea with two different exoressions of that same idea.

Automated RivenOct 13, 20183 votes

To be fair, riven's sword is magic. Also looking at samurai swords, people could cut through multiple people in one swing. That would classify as AOE damage in my books.

RalanrOct 13, 20182 votes

Of course it’s magic, she holds it in one hand!

GibberwattOct 14, 20181 votes

I mean Aatrox's sword looks pretty dang magical too. its as big as he is.

rawiazam1Oct 13, 20182 votes

aatrox, for example. has a sword as big as a tower. how that wouldn't knock shit up

Power CosmicOct 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

aatrox, for example. has a sword as big as a tower. how that wouldn't knock shit up

Read the post. No sword is blunt, like a tower. If that is the case it shouldn't be a sword.

RalanrOct 13, 20183 votes

Read Berserk. It may change your mind.

Power CosmicOct 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Read Berserk. It may change your mind.

If you oppose that swords are sharp then.,.. you should definitely alter or add to your reading list. Somethings are worth arguing, others are not. Swords are sharp, period.

RalanrOct 13, 20183 votes

Thing is, the sharpness doesn’t matter as much as momentum and small area of impact. It’s why a pick can pierce stuff even when it isn’t the sharpest.

Greatswords generally aren’t as sharp as regular swords because A) it would cause the big blade to have more maintenance and B) they can do their job well enough with a small impact area and lots of momentum.

Power CosmicOct 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Thing is, the sharpness doesn’t matter as much as momentum and small area of impact. It’s why a pick can pierce stuff even when it isn’t the sharpest.

Greatswords generally aren’t as sharp as regular swords because A) it would cause the big blade to have more maintenance and B) they can do their job well enough with a small impact area and lots of momentum.

Picks pierce through applied force a small area. Swords, unless stabbing, slice (possess their own force/velocity/momentum) and dont cause any ripple effect bc they cut. This is all common sense. A butter sword (knife) doesnt do anything to the rest of the butter when cutting through a bar. Like.... I know, you know, your wrong, it is okay to be wrong learn and become smarter. I am not attacking you, things are the way they are and it shouldn't need to be described.

RalanrOct 13, 20183 votes

But that’s the thing, swords don’t need to be as sharp as you think they do.

It’s also a game.

Power CosmicOct 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

But that’s the thing, swords don’t need to be as sharp as you think they do.

It’s also a game.

True :-) A game where they took a lot of effort in making no sense. Making it seem they desperately wanted money as much as they wanted to screw people over that were having fun to get it. A game where they rather have people spit out nonsense defending the error than admitting it has been a failure. The best dev teams don't intentioanlly create things to argue about, they create additional fun. Yw for the upvote :-)

RalanrOct 13, 20184 votes

We can cast ignite on brand, heal brand with water magic, and Alistar does magic damage despite hitting you really hard.

The game never really made sense.

Power CosmicOct 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

We can cast ignite on brand, heal brand with water magic, and Alistar does magic damage despite hitting you really hard.

The game never really made sense.

Yes nice light-hearted reply, thxs.

Automated RivenOct 14, 20181 votes

To be fair, we have no idea how physics work in runeterra. It's a completely separate world and trying to argue earth physics with a fantasy world's physics is an effort in futility.

Kai GuyOct 13, 20182 votes

Being extremely sharp is bad. The edge of a blade becomes more frail. If you have ever worked with really nice chef knifes and garbage cutting boards you learn its better to have a less sharp blade. How hard your material is tends to dictate the angle of the edge your going to want.

The mind set that sharp is better, its flawed. You want a good edge related for the materials your using in relation to how you want the tool to work.

Frequently Bigger swords are more dull, they would lose an edge to fast and require excessive workto maintain the blades edge.

Entire arguments a bit moot as its pretty clear its not just the sword + standard earth physics being used to knock up opponents, the particle filled animations and exploding ground should be the first giveaway that there's more afoot then just a blade.

Power CosmicOct 13, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=McBv5HEV,comment-id=00030000000000000001,timestamp=2018-10-13T19:40:05.062+0000)

Being extremely sharp is bad. The edge of a blade becomes more frail. If you have ever worked with really nice chef knifes and garbage cutting boards you learn its better to have a less sharp blade. How hard your material is tends to dictate the angle of the edge your going to want.

The mind set that sharp is better, its flawed. You want a good edge related for the materials your using in relation to how you want the tool to work.

Frequently Bigger swords are more dull, they would lose an edge to fast and require excessive workto maintain the blades edge.

Entire arguments a bit moot as its pretty clear its not just the sword + standard earth physics being used to knock up opponents, the particle filled animations and exploding ground should be the first giveaway that there's more afoot then just a blade.

What more would be afoot other than the sword cutting into the ground? Why doesnt anyone else's sword do that? Seemed as it was forced and rushed. Forced to use old Aatrox as a framework for something that doesn't fit him. When deciding design, most would be thinking a hammer or staff of sometype of AD magician sort of how Illoai uses tentacles not a sword. A dull sword is still sharper than a blunt object. Swords do not cause hardly any vibrations on surfaces bc they penetrate what they strike, if it doesn't than the vibrations goes back to its holder. Since you seem to know swords, you know that. You must be friends with Riot people bc it seems you are going out of your way to make no sense to defend the indefensible.

Kai GuyOct 14, 20181 votes

The fun thing about magic is it can do what ever the hell people want. A champion could have a tooth pick Add some magic and BOOM knock ups.Its not complicated, magic does not apply to earth physics.Logic does not transfer over completely for gameplay perspectives AurelionSol Detonates a Star and it does less damage then Katarina throwing some knifes.

People smashing the ground with a large weapon is a very common in fantasy themed games. Many of them have Bastard/great sword skills that shatter the earth. This is done to convey a feeling of raw power. It is not done to be a realistic combat move.

End of the day, No one gets flipped into the air 10 feet because some one else hit the ground, regardless of its its a blunt or sharp weapon.

So again. Not realistic, not meant to be realistic, its just magic and fantasy dog. I don't know how to make this more clear or simple for you.

MoonscourgeOct 13, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Power Cosmic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=McBv5HEV,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-13T19:09:45.357+0000)

If you oppose that swords are sharp then.,.. you should definitely alter or add to your reading list. Somethings are worth arguing, others are not. Swords are sharp, period.

They are, but they get dull rather quickly. Maintaining an edge is difficult if you continuously clash with them. You clearly have no idea of actual and traditional swordfighting though. Also the bigger the sword the lower your ability to cut, it is more akin to a hammer at that point, which will still slice with the amount of force behind it and the edges, while not being as fine, obviously still being somewhat sharp.

NemeBroOct 14, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Power Cosmic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=McBv5HEV,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-13T19:09:45.357+0000)

If you oppose that swords are sharp then.,.. you should definitely alter or add to your reading list. Somethings are worth arguing, others are not. Swords are sharp, period.

If a sword has not been sharpened and the edge is blunt as a result, is it no longer a sword?

Your point is idiotic, and frankly absurd in intent given that the realism of a weapon's application hardly factors into the effect a champion's given ability has.

ProfDrDeathOct 13, 20181 votes

Dude. One word:

Magic.

Power CosmicOct 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Dude. One word:

Magic.

I thought that too, but then why a sword? I read a lot, watch movies, play games, love art, it still seems like a very odd choice; also if magic why would it still be Aatrox?

ParoeOct 13, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Power Cosmic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=McBv5HEV,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-10-13T20:34:00.781+0000)

I thought that too, but then why a sword? I read a lot, watch movies, play games, love art, it still seems like a very odd choice; also if magic why would it still be Aatrox?

A sword is an object of terror, a symbol of the warrior. You cant think of weapons as "ONLY X" like you are - they are as varied as the men and women who wield them.

Lets just.... Do you know what a Dirk is? Its a knife thats shaped like a sword. Theyre smaller than a shortsword but longer than a dagger, hence their unique weapon type. Do you know what a rapier is? Do you know what a scimitar is? Do you know what a shamshir is? Do you know what Khopesh is? Do you know what a broadsword is? Do you know what a claymore is? Do you know what a nodachi is?

Different swords have very different purposes. The broadsword is the iconic one, the one we see in media and think of as "the true sword" but... It has a purpose. Some swords for example were used specifically to cut down horses - these swords were large and heavy with a minor edge specifically to cut through dense horse muscle. Not all swords even had a pointed tip for stabbing. A sword like the one riven and aatrox use would be an ultra-greatsword, an extremely heavy piece meant for war (that isnt really used in real life - they were general weapons in china for example, and their japanese variant was for dollhouse samurai). Theyre used to cleave large swatches of lightly or unarmored foes such as infantry and first-line soldiers so that the more powerful troops wont be slowed down as much. Also, smashing an enemies armor into them causes intense pain, broken bones, and severe internal damage. You dont want a sharp sword for that, you want a heavy one. Prisoners are also hard to take if theyre dying of blood loss.

Further, think about the kind of place Noxus IS. Its a country that wants and celebrates strength, not raw power. Their elites (of which Riven, Aatrox's host, Darius, and Draven are) ALL use large, heavy, powerful weapons to great effect. Aatrox's sword might be massive, but for a man of the stature of the host it would be no real effort. You also need to take into account HOW a massive weapon functions. Unlike a 1v1 weapon thats intended for use in duels like rapier, a weapon of war is often meant to do a LOT of area damage with a large strike zone.

Power CosmicOct 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

A sword is an object of terror, a symbol of the warrior. You cant think of weapons as "ONLY X" like you are - they are as varied as the men and women who wield them.

Lets just.... Do you know what a Dirk is? Its a knife thats shaped like a sword. Theyre smaller than a shortsword but longer than a dagger, hence their unique weapon type. Do you know what a rapier is? Do you know what a scimitar is? Do you know what a shamshir is? Do you know what Khopesh is? Do you know what a broadsword is? Do you know what a claymore is? Do you know what a nodachi is?

Different swords have very different purposes. The broadsword is the iconic one, the one we see in media and think of as "the true sword" but... It has a purpose. Some swords for example were used specifically to cut down horses - these swords were large and heavy with a minor edge specifically to cut through dense horse muscle. Not all swords even had a pointed tip for stabbing. A sword like the one riven and aatrox use would be an ultra-greatsword, an extremely heavy piece meant for war (that isnt really used in real life - they were general weapons in china for example, and their japanese variant was for dollhouse samurai). Theyre used to cleave large swatches of lightly or unarmored foes such as infantry and first-line soldiers so that the more powerful troops wont be slowed down as much. Also, smashing an enemies armor into them causes intense pain, broken bones, and severe internal damage. You dont want a sharp sword for that, you want a heavy one. Prisoners are also hard to take if theyre dying of blood loss.

Further, think about the kind of place Noxus IS. Its a country that wants and celebrates strength, not raw power. Their elites (of which Riven, Aatrox's host, Darius, and Draven are) ALL use large, heavy, powerful weapons to great effect. Aatrox's sword might be massive, but for a man of the stature of the host it would be no real effort. You also need to take into account HOW a massive weapon functions. Unlike a 1v1 weapon thats intended for use in duels like rapier, a weapon of war is often meant to do a LOT of area damage with a large strike zone.

A lot of words but you never answered the question.

ParoeOct 14, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Power Cosmic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=McBv5HEV,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-14T00:33:26.995+0000)

A lot of words but you never answered the question.

Oh, youre a troll then. I feel dumb for wasting brain cells.

Regardless... Ultra greatswords like Riven and Aatrox require massive strength to utilize. Realistically, Riven probably has really high muscle density despite her frame and Aatrox is big. While a distinct knock up effect isnt usually possible in reality, the small displacement effect from such a heavy object hitting the ground near you is very much so real, and can be translated into a game as a knockup.

ZerglingOneOct 14, 20181 votes

A sword is primarily a weapon of oppression.

They're not great(or even good) against armored opponents or shields. They exist almost exclusively to hack down and stab unarmored targets. Often more than one at a time. Especially cavalry swords.

So yes, a sword is absolutely made to cause AoE damage. There was even the old barbaric Japanese practice of a katana being rated by how many Koreans it could kill in 1 swing.