Can we make caitlyn's safe laning phase a little less unfun to play against

undesirable team·Apr 17, 2017·78 votes·3,865 views

legit she just places down traps under your tower, and autos u to death with 200 dmg q's flying at u when ur slowed from her net. this shit is so un-fun, almost as much fun as laning against gp. "but jg ganks" nope. she has a peeling support like janna to save her ass, along with her e and traps to avoid ganks, since she got more traps after placing down traps under your tower and 2 shotting you. who tf made up that she had a bad midgame, she gets red and kites your ass with a runaans and pieces of an ie.

94 Comments

no to toxicApr 17, 201724 votes

They will nerf Caitlyn once Cassiopeia gets a visual rework wich makes her upper half snake and the bottom half woman.

SpecterVonBarenApr 17, 201724 votes

Are both halves still clothed the same?

ExceIIencyApr 17, 201713 votes

Asking the real questions down there

BALDG1VEN BOOMERApr 17, 201715 votes

Peeling supports ha..

Playing against a double cc lane is even more oppressive, not mention if she gets a Morgana one of the most effective supports against her

undesirable teamApr 17, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Peeling supports ha..

Playing against a double cc lane is even more oppressive, not mention if she gets a Morgana one of the most effective supports against her

any support with cc synergizes too well

SSShutTheDuckUpApr 18, 20175 votes

Zyra Does killing the enemy count as peeling?

ignyteApr 17, 201711 votes

I always think ... " what would happen to caitlyn if her traps were triggered by minions|". she wouldnt be able to hold you hostage under your tower, and it would sort of make her think about trap placement , if only for laning phase.

Jhins traps trigger off minions. Nidalee traps trigger of minions. I guess Caitlyns are made of an other-worldly material not tangible to the physical world.

King LeBongApr 17, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baker Protocol,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MZpbAzs0,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-04-17T19:55:33.259+0000)

I always think ... " what would happen to caitlyn if her traps were triggered by minions|". she wouldnt be able to hold you hostage under your tower, and it would sort of make her think about trap placement , if only for laning phase.

Jhins traps trigger off minions. Nidalee traps trigger of minions. I guess Caitlyns are made of an other-worldly material not tangible to the physical world.

Most of the optimal trap placements aren't in the minion line.

You already have to think about trap placement, this would change nothing for decent Caitlyn players.

Chembaron YamadaApr 17, 20178 votes

How often did I hear that suggestion... You have to keep in mind what the skill is used for. Yes, Nidalee and Jhin traps trigger on minions. Do you know what is a difference, too? These traps are invisible, unlike Caitlyns.

And believe it or not, but there is a reason for these things. Jhins traps are meant for ambushing, securing a path if he has to flee, waveclear and stuff like that. Nidalee traps are helping her to clear the jungle and to ambush the enemy again by marking them.

Caitlyns traps are meant as a zoning tool. That situation where she is sieging you and blocking the path with traps is exactly what they are meant to do. To function as zoning tools, they are not invisible, because you are not forcing an enemy to stay away with a threat he can't see. And she isn't able to block the way if minions are triggering them.

Just because 2 skills are both traps doesn't mean that they should function the same if they actually fulfill different purposes.

Skins ProjectApr 18, 20172 votes

Nid's are visible....

ninjaroxasApr 18, 20173 votes

Not anymore

Skins ProjectApr 18, 20172 votes

Are you serious..

ninjaroxasApr 18, 20173 votes

Unless it got reverted and i haven't noticed they are invisible with 3 health now

Skins ProjectApr 18, 20172 votes

Damn....

Mb then..

I played nid like 2 seasons ago...

Didn't think there were any trap changes (major)

Alrite then..

Hello I am BirdApr 18, 20172 votes

But Nidalee's traps aren't invisible...

Chembaron YamadaApr 18, 20178 votes

That changed in patch 7.2. They are invisible now.

Vegeta is hotApr 18, 20171 votes

She should get three at most, five is fucking obnoxious. It's enough traps to zone out a fucking snorlax

Magical ZoeApr 17, 20179 votes

She's also very slow has no mobility other than her trap shot thats on a 16 to 10 cd. A well placed stun, snare or grsb could kill her

edit: wow, i'm getting downvoted for basically offering counters

MelledoneusApr 17, 201719 votes

Her range highly offsets that. It takes a massive amount of diving power to get to her, more than any other ADC.

starelementpokeApr 17, 20173 votes

Just wish her catching me in her traps didn't cause me to lose like 20% health. As a tank. Can we just lower that a bit? I'm cool with that.

MelledoneusApr 17, 20172 votes

[deleted]

starelementpokeApr 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Her armor ignore on headshots needs to go.

Make it an increase per point put in, max like 20-25%. I'm okay with that. I don't like my health disappearing in 1 hit as a tank

King LeBongApr 17, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Make it an increase per point put in, max like 20-25%. I'm okay with that. I don't like my health disappearing in 1 hit as a tank

That buff was removed with her small scale rework, you are very misinformed and are making up numbers to suggest as a balance change, when there's no number to change.

Point put in what? That change was to her old passive, there was never a point to put in anything for getting the armor pen on her headshots.

starelementpokeApr 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That buff was removed with her small scale rework, you are very misinformed and are making up numbers to suggest as a balance change, when there's no number to change.

Point put in what? That change was to her old passive, there was never a point to put in anything for getting the armor pen on her headshots.

?Thought if someone got caught in her trap, she dealt full damage to a champ she hit or something?

BenParadoxApr 17, 20171 votes

If someone is trapped by W, Caitlyn's Q deals full damage. If she Headshots someone who is trapped, the AA deals bonus physical damage scaling with her AD.

Headshots were given Armor Pen before the Marksman update, and the Armor Pen got removed w/ Cait's rework.

starelementpokeApr 17, 20171 votes

Full damage as ignores armour and stuff that'd reduce it then?

Chembaron YamadaApr 17, 20172 votes

No, it doesn't. Usually the damage of the Q gets reduced for additional targets hit. So if the Q was hitting a minion before you, you will take reduced damage.

But that damage reduction doesn't accure if the target is trapped. It does not ignore armor. It is just removing the built in damage reduction from the spell itself.

King LeBongApr 17, 20174 votes

{quoted}

?Thought if someone got caught in her trap, she dealt full damage to a champ she hit or something?

It's a flat number with a .7 AD ratio, there is no armor pen involved.

King LeBongApr 17, 20178 votes

{quoted}

Her armor ignore on headshots needs to go.

The fact that you have upvotes on such a misinformed statement shows how much some people on this forum lack in game knowledge, yet make suggestions for balance changes.

That change was added and removed an extremely long time ago.

MelledoneusApr 17, 20171 votes

You are correct, my mistake. The huge damage on her headshot, even as a tank, misled me into thinking that was still a thing.

Forgive me for my ignorant speading if misinformation.

5000000000000000Apr 18, 20171 votes

:o it was removed?

MelledoneusApr 18, 20172 votes

Right? It turns out she just deals so much damage armor doesn't soften the blow as much as it usually can.

PrinceOfStormsApr 17, 20172 votes

Alternatively, getting hit by Cailyn's headshot makes you immune to getting hit by it again for 10 seconds, similar to how if Ekko procs his passive on you, he can't do it again for a while.

FiddlesOnTheRoofApr 18, 20172 votes

What? Her main combo is trap>headshot>net>headshot

PrinceOfStormsApr 19, 20171 votes

Exactly. Remove the ability to do her main combo.

FiddlesOnTheRoofApr 19, 20171 votes

lol. her win rate would fall to like 45%. There isn't a single champion in the game who's "main combo" you could remove that wouldn't completely gut them. That's like saying Riven should have a 3 second cooldown between each use of her q. If you removed Cait's combo, you'd have to give her significantly more power elsewhere. How about instead, don't step on easy to see traps.

Magical ZoeApr 18, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Her range highly offsets that. It takes a massive amount of diving power to get to her, more than any other ADC.

Thats just not true and ignorant. I'd say that Ezreal takes more time to tower dive and has has 2 mobility moves (flash and his E). Twitch and Corki you could argue are hard to dive as well. And if she didn't have her range (she literally has a sniper rifle) she'd be a shit champion, honestly.

MelledoneusApr 18, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Thats just not true and ignorant. I'd say that Ezreal takes more time to tower dive and has has 2 mobility moves (flash and his E)

Flash does not count. Everyone has flash. He has one mobility move.

Twitch and Corki you could argue are hard to dive as well. And if she didn't have her range (she literally has a sniper rifle) she'd be a shit champion, honestly.

I never said I had a problem with her range. I just said her range highly offsets her lack of defensive capabilities, which most ADCs have very little of. Caitlyn has among the highest safety out of any ADC. It takes a Nocturne/Camille/Zac level dive to give her any real trouble if she has her net and traps up.

Sp33d Zer0Apr 18, 20175 votes

Tristana

MelledoneusApr 18, 20174 votes

Urgot

I can post champion icons, too.

Sp33d Zer0Apr 18, 20171 votes

Trist is an adc with longer range, with double disengage.

Synnx7Apr 18, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MZpbAzs0,comment-id=00010000000300000000,timestamp=2017-04-18T06:15:25.038+0000)

Trist is an adc with longer range, with double disengage.

except she needs to be lvl 18 first of all. And lower base dmg

Skins ProjectApr 18, 20171 votes

Tristana really takes late game to scale into her range...

Even then her playstyle/kit forces her to jump into the opposing team, while cait is a safe pick.

Sp33d Zer0Apr 18, 20172 votes

I disagree. Her kit ENABLES that style, but also offers double disengage.

yay nibbersApr 19, 20171 votes

As much as I hate how her jump warps her into another dimension even after I know I've hit her with a stun or a root or whatever, Tristana's actually a pretty fair champion that has to scale into her range and power.

Caitlyn can headshot you for a large chunk of HP from across the realm starting at level 1.

Sp33d Zer0Apr 19, 20171 votes

And as much as you hate Caitlyn's traps that don't move, tristana can plop a bomb on you in any fight and take out a massive chunk of hp at level 1. 209 damage (before armor) to be exact if she is not running fervor, and has only 70 AD.

My point in bringing her up was not that she is better than cait, it's that cait is NOT the safest ADC in the game: "It takes a massive amount of diving power to get to her, more than any other ADC."

Tristana matches, and improves, on the difficulty to reach her. The only difference in their ability to kite is that caitlyn has to pre place traps and stay behind them to stay safewhile having a 400 unit jump, tristana can just knock you away 600/800/1000 units with a 900 unit jump.

sure, you fight in a choke point with no way to get over walls, a caitlyn is going to be untouchable if she can free hit from behind her traps. But tristana is much harder to flank, harder to stick onto once you reach, has a higher range at level 16 (I made a bad bit of math based off previous numbers, as her range increases by 7, not the 9 i had thought it did) AND tristana can interrupt things like a kat ult, velkoz ult, etc and shove away divers such as wukong, tryndamere, Yi, Amumu, Lee sin, Warwick.....

undesirable teamApr 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

She's also very slow has no mobility other than her trap shot thats on a 16 to 10 cd. A well placed stun, snare or grsb could kill her

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=angelexcaliber a little biased here are we?

Magical ZoeApr 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=angelexcaliber a little biased here are we? Yea I play her..but that also means I know some of the ins and outs of her. Killing her is really not that hard, I mean, Nocturne destroys her i've found. And Ezreal and Lucian should have an easy game against her.

undesirable teamApr 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yea I play her..but that also means I know some of the ins and outs of her. Killing her is really not that hard, I mean, Nocturne destroys her i've found. And Ezreal and Lucian should have an easy game against her.

i play her too, and its bullshit. sure assassins can dive her, but her team can peel her easily since she can just net into her team. early oppressive adcs such as lucian get outranged by 100-150, and can get kited and poked down in lane, if they go in, they get netted and trapped and killed, if they dont, they just get outscaled.

FiddlesOnTheRoofApr 18, 20171 votes

Lucian is very good into Cait. E past her E, and you cuck her.