Anyone else think lux main problem isnt Q cd?

Dani El Pezglobo·Jul 15, 2017·2 votes·574 views

Hi, i mean pbe change 2 s low q on early game, this isnt what she really needs, she need a boots on her q speed, not too much but more like ahri e speed, because before mobilitie wasnt 2 high, but now boots are really cheap , champs have dash and high base speed , i think thats what she needs to comeback from metagame, i mean she got a few buffs right now but damage / cds arent the problem, maybe riot could rework her w to make it usefull on some way (since they nerf scale ap to half and base shield to half , its trash right now) w could dash like graves r, or w could slow enemies so she doesnt rely so much on her q

21 Comments

Lieutenant AmaZeJul 15, 20173 votes

Since the problem they're trying to address has to do with her contribution to fights, I think that the following changes might be worth their looking into:

--_

Return Light Binding's cooldown to where it was -- (15~11) -- Cutting the early cooldown and not the late cooldown just doesn't make sense for this purpose.
Higher base but lower scaling on shield; retain the shield stacking for double hits; scale the shield value slightly upwards based on the distance of the ally to Lux -- single shield stack: ~~110 + 20% AP~~ -> 150 + 10% AP, increased by up to 30% at the inflection point of the wand's flight -- This eliminates any worries that the shield is too strong on Lux herself, which was the sole reason why they moved it to a stacking system to begin with, and allows you to greater support allies from afar, which is, generally, where you should be in heated teamfights. -- The total shielding potential of this ability will then increase from 220 + 40% AP to 300 + 20% AP for you and 390 + 26% AP for allies that are standing exactly 10 meters from you.
Cut the slow ratio of Lucent Singularity, but allow it to persist for a half-second or two on targets affected by it after it detonates -- ~~25-45% while the target is in the zone~~ -> 25% while in the zone and for 1 second after being damaged by it --_

PlsNoNautMIDJul 15, 20171 votes

This would make Support-Lux more viable as well... I like your ideas.

FrightningJul 15, 20171 votes

These changes wouldn't address the problem, the reason she tends to struggle to compete for damage output is mainly because all of her basic abilities are on long CDs (10+ base), so she rarely gets more than 1 rotation unless it's a longer fight. Most other mages have at least one lower CD ability (6 secs or less) which usually has pretty solid base damage. Lowering her E CD at later ranks might do the trick, but it could potentially lead to abusive levels of aggressive late in laning particularly with blue buff (it at least costs 130 mana at rank 5, so that should put a lid on how much she can spam it). Also, it's ability to persist for up to 5 seconds may need to be shortened so that w/ 40%+ CDR it's popped before it's back off CD (if that's a problem code-wise; it also wouldn't hurt her any really to have it not last 5 seconds; you almost never have reason to leave it up very long except when scouting an even then, you know within the first second or two if things are safe or not).

Lieutenant AmaZeJul 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

These changes wouldn't address the problem, the reason she tends to struggle to compete for damage output is mainly because all of her basic abilities are on long CDs (10+ base), so she rarely gets more than 1 rotation unless it's a longer fight. Most other mages have at least one lower CD ability (6 secs or less) which usually has pretty solid base damage. Lowering her E CD at later ranks might do the trick, but it could potentially lead to abusive levels of aggressive late in laning particularly with blue buff (it at least costs 130 mana at rank 5, so that should put a lid on how much she can spam it). Also, it's ability to persist for up to 5 seconds may need to be shortened so that w/ 40%+ CDR it's popped before it's back off CD (if that's a problem code-wise; it also wouldn't hurt her any really to have it not last 5 seconds; you almost never have reason to leave it up very long except when scouting an even then, you know within the first second or two if things are safe or not).

Lux has a problem with damage output? This is news to me. Word is that the problems they're trying to address with the buffs have to do with teamfight contribution.

chipndip1Jul 15, 20172 votes

Lux has issues with elongated damage output unless she's sitting on a good deal of cdr after level 9, yes. Her general burst is still pretty good, but her contribution to more drawn out fights are lack luster with no real compensation in that regard.

FrightningJul 17, 20171 votes

What else does a squishy backliner contribute to a fight besides damage? CC, and shields? Her shield is already really strong on paper, even if ideal usage of it is rare, and her snare would be very oppressive if it's CD were much lower, so I doubt either of those things are what's lacking, so that leaves damage.

Chipndip1's reply is right on the money, Lux's burst has always been good, especially given the range at which she can deliver it. But her long CDs mean that her actually damage over the course of a full teamfight can be surprising lacking if the fight isn't a very long, especially if the enemies play smart and stay spread out (limiting potential to exploit AoE for multiple hits). One of the reason's why CDR is especially important to Lux is that having a high amount of it tends to greatly increase the chances that she will get a second round of basic spells in before the fight is over, which helps her overall teamfight contribution greatly.

Killed InactionJul 15, 20171 votes

I really don't want the W AP ratio to be nerfed again. Right now Lux AP support is in a good place, and I don't want her shielding to require support Lux to build shield power instead of AP. I think the buff was in itself unnecessary in the first place; she's fine as is right now. I'd hate to see her ban rate go up, and my favorite play-style is Lux AP support, so I'd really hate if they took that away more than they already did with previous W nerfs.

Lieutenant AmaZeJul 15, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Killed Inaction,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MRUAkBJx,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2017-07-15T15:47:06.291+0000)

I really don't want the W AP ratio to be nerfed again. Right now Lux AP support is in a good place, and I don't want her shielding to require support Lux to build shield power instead of AP. I think the buff was in itself unnecessary in the first place; she's fine as is right now. I'd hate to see her ban rate go up, and my favorite play-style is Lux AP support, so I'd really hate if they took that away more than they already did with previous W nerfs.

I know, and it really sucks, but Riot does what it feels it has to do to make sure that everything that is given is accounted for elsewhere in some way. My proposal gives Lux potentially the strongest team shielding in this entire game, actually, at the expense of her personal safety. 390 + 26% AP in AoE is actually extremely high, but it's also, an ideal case. That's the important part that you shouldn't forget, is that you can shield your entire team with it, lmao.

Other champions' shields:

Janna: 240 + 70%, 5 seconds
Lulu (sometimes not even used to shield): 210 + 60%, 6 seconds
Karma: 170 + 50% / 380 + 110% (splash shield: 114 + 33%), 4 seconds
Ivern: 190 + 80%, 2 seconds
Rakan: 150 + 80%, 3 seconds, per shield, twice (potential 300 + 160% for 6 seconds in ideal case)
Sona: 130 + 30%, 1.5 seconds

In comparison, 390 + 26% for up to four allies puts it at the level of a goddamned Locket. But. I chose 390 + 26% for Lux for the following reasons:

You can miss your shield
Your allies always find a way to walk out of the return path
If you are in a teamfight and you do manage to shield 4 people with just the tip of your wand, then your team has other problems to be addressing.
"""Support""" Lux has a bad rap (not that it's undeserved) but it's giving legitimate support Luxes like myself more grief than we deserve. By allowing me to try to impart a 450 point shield from very far away instead of the dinky 200 point shields that go out because people don't catch the second run, I can make a bigger difference for the team. Don't argue this point - we have (or we should have) all of the spells' ranges burned into our memories.
Early solo-lane Lux doesn't hurt from the shift because the extra base 80 points only falls short once you've surpassed 400 AP.
The extra 170 points on far-off allies cannot be made up for. Lux's current scaling will only begin to outstrip my proposed tweak starting at 1,214 AP.

Killed InactionJul 15, 20171 votes

I do understand what you're saying, but look at it this way: 390 +26% AP with 200 AP = 442 shielding. That's approximately the shielding from a Lux "true support" build. But you also have at least 30% bonus shielding power, so 442 × 1.3 = 575 shielding per target. Possible total of 2,300 shielding on allies. Versus a 560 shield with 650 AP. Sure, it might be basically negligible, but I don't want "Lux with support items has better shields" thrown in my face every single game.

If that change were to happen, I predict her ban rate will go up at least a few percent. The Elementalist Lux skin release kinda sucked since people banned her almost every game. I don't want that to happen again for a buff that doesn't even need to be there.

I don't have a problem with buffs in general, but I'm always concerned that the ban rate on my favorite champion(s) will go up if they do get buffed, especially if they're in an OK place already.

I just looked at some Lux statistics and she has a 44.68% win rate as support. I guess that's why she's never banned. She also has <50% win rate in mid, so I guess that's why she's getting buffs.

Apparently a one-trick tends to overestimate their champion's viability/strength? Dunno.

Lieutenant AmaZeJul 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Killed Inaction,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MRUAkBJx,comment-id=0002000200000000,timestamp=2017-07-15T16:52:14.253+0000)

I do understand what you're saying, but look at it this way: 390 +26% AP with 200 AP = 442 shielding. That's approximately the shielding from a Lux "true support" build. But you also have at least 30% bonus shielding power, so 442 × 1.3 = 575 shielding per target. Possible total of 2,300 shielding on allies. Versus a 560 shield with 650 AP. Sure, it might be basically negligible, but I don't want "Lux with support items has better shields" thrown in my face every single game.

If that change were to happen, I predict her ban rate will go up at least a few percent. The Elementalist Lux skin release kinda sucked since people banned her almost every game. I don't want that to happen again for a buff that doesn't even need to be there.

I don't have a problem with buffs in general, but I'm always concerned that the ban rate on my favorite champion(s) will go up if they do get buffed, especially if they're in an OK place already.

I just looked at some Lux statistics and she has a 44.68% win rate as support. I guess that's why she's never banned. She also has <50% win rate in mid, so I guess that's why she's getting buffs.

Apparently a one-trick tends to overestimate their champion's viability/strength? Dunno.

GOD i hated the Elementalist Lux release. Do you know how many... lesser-skilled... Luxes I fought for weeks after that? Also, I never got to play as her. She was always banned or picked. it sucked, lmao

The intent behind my idea was to find some way to help bring forth the "supporty" role that Lux is capable of providing. The current mechanics behind it make it difficult for a Lux that isn't building raw AP to shield for much.

The only other thing I can think of to amp utility in Lux is to have Illumination slow, or something. The instant such a thing goes through, you better believe I'm bringing out that AD Lux more often :D

Or maybe shielding allies (and yourself) causes basic attacks for the next few seconds while the shield holds to apply Illumination, which Lux then needs to detonate. Ahh, but then I would run AP/AS Lux and just shield myself then auto everyone. lmao

Aaaaaanywaaaay I ramble It's not likely that anything similar to what I think up would be applied to these champions. My application to Riot hasn't gone anywhere yet.

last point: i do that all the time, the overestimation. And, if you're referencing champion.gg for that win+banrate, don't forget that's Plat+ only. Support Lux is doing a lot for me in silver :V She's 98th out of 134 in ban rate because everyone up there knows how to deal with Lux.

Killed InactionJul 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lieutenant AmaZe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MRUAkBJx,comment-id=00020002000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-15T17:06:16.648+0000)

The intent behind my idea was to find some way to help bring forth the "supporty" role that Lux is capable of providing. The current mechanics behind it make it difficult for a Lux that isn't building raw AP to shield for much.

Well, I think that's the point. She's not primarily a support.

It's not likely that anything similar to what I think up would be applied to these champions. My application to Riot hasn't gone anywhere yet.

Hah, yeah. I think I've only seen 1 instance of a Boards suggestion actually going into the game, and I don't remember what it was.

last point: i do that all the time, the overestimation. And, if you're referencing champion.gg for that win+banrate, don't forget that's Plat+ only. Support Lux is doing a lot for me in silver :V She's 98th out of 134 in ban rate because everyone up there knows how to deal with Lux.

Well, it's working for me in Gold, too, so I hope she doesn't lose viability in higher ranks for me. Otherwise I'll be stuck in Gold or just play norms. xD

LightIsMyPathJul 15, 20171 votes

Imho all she needs is better waveclear in earlier stage and a way to proc passive on more targets instead of just one at a time (which could solve the 1st problem). Q is fine it's not meant to be easy to hit since when r is up it's a death sentence for squishies.

Dani El PezgloboJul 15, 20171 votes

im not saying it should be like syndra e+q , but u know a bit more fast ll be nice, most times u play lux , u understand that if ur rival is good u cant kill him lane phase and have to wait to midgame to start being usefull as a poke mage .

Other of her main problems is that she is a long range mage but she need put herself on range aa to hit pasive , that doesnt have any kind of sense, just make her she can break pasive with other skill , one of this buffs ll be enough, and not low cd or up damage

LightIsMyPathJul 15, 20171 votes

Illumination on skills would break her (too high reward for zero risk) and wouldn't solve her struggles with contrating a push pre 2 items (she has to use r to quickly clear a wave while her competition have built in waveclear on base abilities). Instead if you keep the risk element involved in giving up briefly your range to get the passive reward you can make that reward higher. Right now using illumination when there are more than 2 targets it's not "a risk" it's simply completely impossible as you can't stay around with an immobile squishy mage for the time of 3+ autos with a mage attack speed. You just can't use at all one of the most important part of her kit in the situation where she should shine the most (teamfight skirmish siege). With what I'm suggesting proccing illumination on a target would trigger the one of nearby enemies too (minion's only affects minions) so you could have the option to expose fire an auto and back off. More aoe damage as reward, still high risk involved since you are crippling your range to do so . And most importantly way more effective and quick waveclear

Dani El PezgloboJul 15, 20171 votes

On that way she wouldnt relable so much on q, i mean r already have iluminationk (maybe put a cd like lb), I dont think is ask to much e do the same, think thunderlord go away in a few months. I dont want another ryze / lb pasive for lux , if e can hit pasive, her waveclear problems ll go out, she ll have better early game, and it wouldnt be so broken , since r already have it, maybe a bit nerf to damage to balanced it, other way is put (deal 200% or x% bonus damage to minions)

LightIsMyPathJul 15, 20171 votes

A wave has a minimum of 6 Cs (realistically there will be more if you are getting pushed in by enemy team) and q can only apply illumination to 2 targets so even if E fires illumination only 2 minions will die of 6 minimum and you will still have to deal with the remaining at least 4 with autos. Her passive would NOT be lb / ryze level of interaction with the champions because if you auto minions it would fire the proc ONLY for minions.

Dani El PezgloboJul 15, 20171 votes

Till u get luden , then luden ll hit marks as well idk , naybe a mid point between u and me idk still think to do that just put a 200% minions

LightIsMyPathJul 15, 20171 votes

Or even simply double E damage on minions.. Anyway if they want her to be picked more in high Elo they have to make her waveclear better..

ShadòwJul 15, 20171 votes

her Q is pretty much a guaranteed kill mid/late game already on a squishy, so she definitely doesn't need a Q speed buff.

JackMcSnipeyzJul 15, 20171 votes

Yea, because the ability to one shot any squishy mid-late game from a pretty big range isnt strong enough. Lets make it even easier to land Smh

Lieutenant AmaZeJul 15, 20171 votes

Discounting the "shield is empowered for far away allies" idea, another is giving the wand a bigger hitbox. "Lux's wand exudes an aura that tags allied champions and imbues them with light energy to absorb damage," or something.

But. Allies who touch the wand directly get the shield immediately. Allies who don't touch the wand but come within 5 metres of it are given (lesser) shields after 0.5 seconds. That way, throwing it into the thick of a teamfight almost guarantees that you're shielding the entire team, or close, and the balance team doesn't have to deal with the fact that Lux can throw 500+ point shields in (large) AoE every 11 seconds. How do you think this sounds?