Please, I'm begging you here, give Lucian 550 range again. Please.

Totalis··90 votes·3,858 views

We've literally nerfed everything that SHOULD have been nerfed in the first place before the stupid range reduction. E no longer removes slows, the really low ult cd was increased, the passive was nerfed early game (which was honestly the first thing that should have been nerfed), and the w lost its entire ad ratio for very small buffs to the utility. Yes, it's true that the e can be used a little more. When that buff first went through, it was broken as hell and he was untouchable. But that was nerfed too so that unless Lucian is building a lot of cdr (which 95% of the time, he won't be), he won't be using it that much more than he was before he lost his range.

Fast forward to present day and we have an adc that unless he gets the early push in the lane, he can pretty much be zoned and bullied by anyone good enough (and by that I mean a knowledgeable player- not champion). While that's the case for every adc, it's especially apparent in Lucian's case. Every adc can zone and bully Lucian in lane just by playing the range advantage, which is truthfully infuriating as hell.

The only other adc's with range below 550 are graves at 525 and sivir at 500. Thats fine for them, because graves wants to get close to land as much of his q on the target as possible followed by his ult for a large amount of burst damage, and sivir's main job is to support the team with her ultimate, not just be a carry on her own. Lucian's 500 range puts him in a rough spot throughout the game, from lane phase onwards towards the rest of the game. Lucian's mid game is actually good, which im thankful for, but its just not enough when its hard for him to get ahead in lane unless your head and shoulders better than your opponent (and thats not even factoring in the supports' abilities), and a late game that's heavily barred by 500 range.

Do you know the worst part? Vayne, that champion that you see every game? Ever since the range reduction went through vayne became one of his biggest counters. Because he has to get 50 units closer to a minion to cs, vayne gets free poke, and any smart vayne player gets a free pass to proc her w. And for whatever reason, vayne continually avoids nerfs. But thats really not the problem. Vayne is a problem, but nerfing her won't solve anything. Right now Lucian is his own worst enemy.

It wasn't a wrong idea to give Lucian a meaningful weakness. He needed it at the time. Except now that weakness has become less a meaningful weakness and more of a very negative defining trait of the champion. What other traits does he have? High burst? Graves and Kalista have that. Mobility? Graves has a dash too, Trist has a frickin jump that resets on kill and assist, Kalista exists, and Vayne's tumble grants invisibility to quickly reposition when ulting.

TLDR: Because of his low range, Lucian is in a bad place. PLEASE bring it back to 550. With champions like jinx, Trist, Draven, and Vayne I promise you he won't become dangerously op again.

72 Comments

AtheosisX28 votes

525

stealthfox946 votes

This 525 is a fair and balanced range. Lucian's actually not in a bad spot now. A small buff should make him relevant possibly in competitive play again.

Rew7113 votes

If we do this, can we also allow Urgot to have 525 or at least 500? He has no mobility and the same MS and somewhat close core concept as Lucian (dealing good trades and able to deal a lot of damage). Urgot also has no damage on his ultimate and its a very complex one to use. Right now, he only has 425 and its kind of odd since he sends plasma blasts that should or could go further. As of right now, even Gnar can fling his boomerangs at up to 485 in range. Urgot has the weakest range out of all marksman and secondary marksman. Can we please give him some more range?

Buttigieg 20202 votes

Urgot is a bruiser and he rarely auto attacks anyways. He doesn't really need it.

Voluug131 votes

He doesnt starts with a completed muramana, you know. Nor is E on a 5s cd either.

IcyPepper1 votes

As of right now, even Gnar can fling his boomerangs at up to 485 in range.

Except Gnar also doesn't have the best aa range, and Urgot can send his Q far and wide if he lands his E. Urgot isn't exactly helpless in terms of range, plus he's a bruiser so having too much range would be like giving someone like... Darius(?) ranged autos, I guess.

Rew7114 votes

If you land the E which has a 11 second cool down and may last 5 seconds but the most Q's you can do are either 2 or 3. And that in total is 150 to 190 mana. I know Urgot has some strong abilities but then you must explain every other marksman and their strong abilities as well. Varus and his strong W. Vayne and her E. Gnar and his W. Graves and his Q. Tristana and her E. Caitlin and her snare trap. Quinn and her E. Sivir and her E. Twisted Fate and his W. Just because he has a combo doesn't mean he isn't also one of the (I'll say it) hardest to play and probably the worst in marksman class. At least Corki makes up for himself with his incredible ultimate and he also has a armor reduction on his E. I'm seeing people asking for a buff to a champion people still like to play as and doesn't have the worst range and I'm asking for a buff to one marksman and its just crazy.

Why does a pistol holder (Miss Fortune or Lucian) get 500 range? Why does a blow dart marksman (Teemo) get 500 range? Why does a spit shooter (Kog'Maw) get 500 range? (And free bonus range.)

And why are you comparing a marksman to a melee? Darius? Urgot shoots a plasma blast from his arm, dude. It should also at least go further than 425. That's way less than a mage minion who has 525. It also hurts him because even if he doesn't do auto attacks, it still hurts his marksman status. Since he's even a marksman, he's not fit to be in close range. He has no real MS. His only safety is a mana shield, and it doesn't stop slows or nothing which are what hurt Urgot the most.

Lastly, you cannot say that he doesn't even need auto attacks as Corki also doesn't need them as well but he has 550 range. His ultimate goes for way further. Everything he has in his kit deals damage and even strengthens his AA and yet he has 550 range.

Urgot isn't really played anymore and he is very strong, I'm not going to lie but when I see a post that asks for another already strong marksman to get a buff to his range and Urgot is left in the dust for a longer period of time, I get a little flustered.

IcyPepper2 votes

Fair enough, I suppose. When you put it like that.

LadyRenly5 votes

I'm for anything that makes an adc enticing to challenge the status quo of Jinx n Vayne

Slamurai Jack5 votes

They justified Lucians range nerf by citing his manaless mobility, lower dash CD, and very high trading power. Then they took all of that away and left the range nerf. So either give him his range back or his damage back; I don't care which.

Hayaishi24 votes

Don't buff Lucian, he's fine.

disregardable11 votes

He's directly inferior to the stronger ADs. Not by much, but that's exactly why he should be buffed. It's not a Kalista case where you just need to completely rework her entire kit to make her both fun to play as and against without being overbearing. He just needs like a little nudge to make a big impact in his success.

Hayaishi23 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MHMYTVPW,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-09-11T04:54:34.406+0000)

He's directly inferior to the stronger ADs. Not by much, but that's exactly why he should be buffed. It's not a Kalista case where you just need to completely rework her entire kit to make her both fun to play as and against without being overbearing. He just needs like a little nudge to make a big impact in his success.

90% of the adc roster is inferior to the stronger ads, we need itemization changes, not more unnecessary buffs

disregardable7 votes

Nope. Half of the ADs are fine.

Jinx Vayne Tristana CaitlynVarus Graves Draven Ashe

Some need minor buffs (via itemization and kit changes).

Lucian KogMaw MissFortune Corki Twitch Ezreal

2 need reworks.

Quinn Kalista

Hayaishi24 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MHMYTVPW,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-11T05:10:11.862+0000)

Nope. Half of the ADs are fine.

Jinx Vayne Tristana CaitlynVarus Graves Draven Ashe

Some need minor buffs (via itemization and kit changes).

Lucian KogMaw MissFortune Corki Twitch Ezreal

2 need reworks.

Quinn Kalista

Varus is horrible as AD carry, Kog maw/corki/twitch/lucian are more viable than him.

Point is no AD carry should be buffed until Riot tweaks the itemization after worlds.

disregardable5 votes

You play him like Caitlyn. Harass with Q, abuse your range, ult+grievous wounds when they're low. With that playstyle he's a lot better than anyone in tier 2. Can't guarantee success if you think you're Jinx and just melee form them.

AtheosisX4 votes

{quoted}

Varus is horrible as AD carry, Kog maw/corki/twitch/lucian are more viable than him.

Point is no AD carry should be buffed until Riot tweaks the itemization after worlds.

http://champion.gg/champion/Varus

Doesn't look horrible to me...

Hayaishi21 votes

{quoted}

http://champion.gg/champion/Varus

Doesn't look horrible to me...

With that popularity there's not even 1.5k games to analyze.

AtheosisX4 votes

{quoted}

With that popularity there's not even 1.5k games to analyze.

There's 6817 actually.

stealthfox9414 votes

Vayne is OP the rest are ballanced.

HeadHonchkrow1 votes

Vayne is balanced, the rest are underpowered

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

Move Varus down to tier 2 and Ez, Kog and Twitch up to tier 1.

Blue build Ez has been seeing success recently and Kog is currently one of the more popular hyper carry picks next to Vayne and Trist. And Twitch has always been a high level pick, he just takes more knowledge skill to use correctly.

disregardable1 votes

We're talking about attack damage carries, not AP mid laners. ^^

And no, twitch hasn't been a high level pick since season 4.

DokiDokiTodoroki1 votes

AD Ezreal is an attack damage carry. He deals AD damage because he builds AD. His damage is based off of auto attacks.

Yi is an attack damage carry. Tryndamere is an attack damage carry. Urgot is an attack damage carry. AD Annie is an attack damage carry.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

I wouldn't buff Corki or Kog. They don't really need it.

Also, I'd say Varus might need some changes, his W and passive are literally the only reasons to use his AAs. There was a reason why Varus mid became a thing.

xxxMadLionxxx1 votes

I play againts varus mid, and the most difficult part about him is his Q. If you are not mindful of it, he will kill you. They tend to hide out of side in the bush and when you think you are safe and farming, they hit you with a well charged Q.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

The thing about Varus mid is that he can build full AD and not have to worry about building Attack Speed, Crit, or other ADC things. It gives him room to just build tons of AD.

Ravenstiker2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MHMYTVPW,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-11T05:10:11.862+0000)

Nope. Half of the ADs are fine.

Jinx Vayne Tristana CaitlynVarus Graves Draven Ashe

Some need minor buffs (via itemization and kit changes).

Lucian KogMaw MissFortune Corki Twitch Ezreal

2 need reworks.

Quinn Kalista

Dont forget that one doesn't exist Urgot

stealthfox941 votes

That's the thing is Kalista is arguably weak given how much she's been nerfed but is still picked a bunch because she's annoying.

disregardable3 votes

I know that. But the fact that the top laners despise her means that we can't just buff her back to where she was healthy without making them cry to death. She needs a rework.

stealthfox943 votes

Oh I agree, her passive is an abomination that should have never been created, and her ult is stupid in the same way mord's new W is stupid in the sense that it forces you to be with your support and limits what you can do by yourself.

disregardable1 votes

I loved her passive before they nerfed it to death. It made kiting really accessible to my little Bronze self. It was really fun to just jump everywhere. Honestly I wish they'd make it into a toggle now that it's nerfed, because before I get tier 2 boots I don't even want it. I'd rather have animation cancelling and decent attack speed.

My ideal rework looks like removing the % health passive and the knockup on her ultimate, reverting her passive back to its original state (perhaps minus the 25% increased distance when moving backward), and removing the mana refund from rend. Make her a kiter, not a weird utility/burst/poke/waveclear thing. Her ult would still be good for a positional tool as a kiter.

Aezanthya2 votes

Are you really saying that this abomination that is Kalista needs buff ? She's a broken champ. Her passive is ludicrous. Her ult is so dumb (lel tahm kench + kalista or more safely/braindead thresh + kalista). If they buff her they need to remove this passive.

That passive on a range champ that scales insanely hard with attack speed will always be broken. Just rework this abomination.

disregardable1 votes

Not a buff, a rework.

1000angrybees3 votes

525, maybe a small AD ratio on W. Otherwise he can be unbearable.

TacoTheKitten1 votes

But black magic AP Lucian...

Frostwoman3 votes

I personally think Lucian is fine. I don't understand why so many people want buffs on him. Just keep in mind that range is a huge stat in small numbers. A 50 range buff is actually immense.

Nipsahoy3 votes

It's Riot man. Incompetence should be expected.

Azteryz2 votes

i think they should revert the cd nerfs on his e actually and keep the mana cost because before the problem with fast dashing lucian was that it had no mana cost and free slow clense but now that they got rid of it they should just add a mana cost to his max rank e and it'll be healthy

Thats a Bingo4 votes

Maybe just give it a mana cost of 20 for every level. It costs mana, but I'd rather have a refreshable dash than have it cost no mana.

xxxMadLionxxx1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Thats a Bingo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MHMYTVPW,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2015-09-12T00:47:12.659+0000)

Maybe just give it a mana cost of 20 for every level. It costs mana, but I'd rather have a refreshable dash than have it cost no mana.

Agreed

FluxBound1 votes

They should buff him a bit, but not on his range. I like how Vayne and Lucian are short ranged, so they should just lower Vayne's

Totalis9 votes

Vayne has 550 range, which is NOT short ranged at all; 550 is the normal range for an adc.

And you completely missed the point of what I was trying to say; I said vayne is NOT the problem in this.

Biffolo1 votes

And she has no way of hitting people outside of said range. THATS WHAT PEOPLE MEAN BY SHORT RANGED. NOT HER AA RANGE.

Dextix LT2 votes

And unlike many others she has the tools to chase her enemies in her passive and her q spammable dash.

Biffolo1 votes

Let's make a single target adc with no poke or waveclear not have gapclosers or chase potential. Makes sense. Kog has waveclear, and he has poke, so that's where he makes up for it. Also, his range get's VERY high on his autos.

Dextix LT1 votes

You didnt get what i was saying, did you?

All of you complain that she has low range and no waveclear. She makes up for not having those with other tools. That was the point! Yes, she doesnt have those things you mentioned, because then she would be the most broken champ in existance, an adc that has everything!

Just because she doesnt have certain things doesnt mean she is weak or balanced, other thngs make up for it.

Biffolo1 votes

It's not her fault if your support/team doesn't help you out.

Gubaguy1 votes

No, dont buff his range, have you actually played him with a good support on your team? like... i dunno... mauybe braum? no? well then lemme give you the low down on what happens:

  1. Braum gets into a position to hit you with his Q, or auto you.
  2. Braum hits you and you begin to walk out of his range because you dont want to be stunned
  3. Lucian uses his BS dash and fires 2 shots into you INSTANTLY
  4. you realise how f*cked you are
  5. You die horribly to lucian becuase now you are stunned, lucian ults you while you stand there like an idiot, unable to escape, unable to run, unable to even MOVE or attack back.
  6. The stun wears off and you have jsut enough HP to try and escape...
  7. Lucian hits you with a full volley of his stupidly long range poke that hits at instant speed, ending your life, and you realise that you cant beat that wombo combo from luc and braum, GG.
Sniper 01 votes

50 extra range is a bit too much. 25 might be ok but they really need to test it.

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