Why were mana pots removed?

Arakadia·Jul 8, 2016·11 votes·1,571 views

Serious question. Just removed a decision that required tactics for stat buffs.

EDIT: Thanks everyone, I understand now!

38 Comments

DeathBurstJul 8, 20166 votes

Basically, mana pots best users were champions that could just spam reliable poke without interacting with their opponent and use pots to stay in lane while forcing the enemy to back. The playstyle was deemed un-healthy, so mana pots were removed and "legitimate" users of pots, who actually needed them to stay in lane with a "normal" play style received a buff in compensation.

Nowadays, if you really need mana in early game, you can start (sapphire + health pots) or Corruption pot.

SaiannaJul 8, 20163 votes

"legitimate" users of pots, who actually needed them to stay in lane with a "normal" play style received a buff in compensation.

If by compensation you mean

Middle finger laughs ignoring problems

Then yes, "legitimate" users indeed receiver a compensation.

INoble KnightIJul 8, 20162 votes

They buffed mana pools, regen, and items. So show your ignorance some more please.

SaiannaJul 8, 20162 votes

Mana pools were buffed because Riot wanted mid mages to have lots of mana with little mana regen
mana regen was nerfed HARD for mid mages. Ask Morellonomicon, Athene.
items? Yeah. that Zhonya nerf was awesome. I still remember that. Or maybe You mean change with ROA? Which makes you into a f#### pinata?

In BEST case scenario: Mages have +10% more AP from itemization than they had before, have close to 0 mana regen and quite big mana pools, that once spent make them into laughing stock.

Prove me wrong. I dare you. I double dare you.

INoble KnightIJul 8, 20161 votes

You mean how every mid mage had their natural mana pools increased and their natural regen buffed? How Nomicon now gives 20% of your max mana back on kills and it's component gives 20% every level up? Or how about Tear that refunds part of the mana spent? How about the Ocean dragon that gives you health and mana regen? How about ROA that gives you mana back when taking hits which is great on certain champs?

SaiannaJul 9, 20162 votes

You mean how every mid mage had their natural mana pools increased and their natural regen buffed?

Well.. Riot did said they wanted to do so.. Still those buffs were tiny. About 1 spell worth of mana. Which is a buff, but you can't go full-orgasm saying "it's all fixed now"

How Nomicon now gives 20% of your max mana back on kills and it's component gives 20% every level up?

Still alot weaker than simple mana regen mid mages had. Unless you play champions who thrive on killing others like Katarina or Zed.. Oh wait they dont use mana. Gimmick #1

How about the Ocean dragon that gives you health and mana regen?

Yeeeeeeeah RNG + which team is stronger/contests better. Or maybe you are like "Hey enemy team, I need some mana regen, could you give us blue dragon? K, thanks!" Gimmick #2

How about ROA that gives you mana back when taking hits which is great on certain champs?

Yep. Pinata. Gimmick #3

Btw with RoA change think on how many champions this item became bad to worthless. You can't be like "oh look! ROA so much better on X now, update so good!" While champions A-Z had to stop buying it.

S00 yeaaaa... No.

INoble KnightIJul 9, 20161 votes

TO be honest I don't find myself going oom as often as before the patch so I'll just agree to disagree.

SaiannaJul 9, 20161 votes

Everyone has their own opinions and I respect that :)

I myself noticed being OOM all the time, whilist before that I could have sacrificed alot of power for insane mana regen to be more about quantity over quality.

INoble KnightIJul 9, 20161 votes

I think the reason I go oom less is just better Mana management to be honest

MarshbouyJul 8, 20161 votes

everyone just forgets that it was really, really frustrating for a morgana to just spam her Q every time she has it up. Not interactive, not fun, incredibly frustrating.

ThePompfJul 8, 20163 votes

They havent made up for every user of Mana pots.

Yorick Urgot

ArakadiaJul 8, 20161 votes

Ok thanks!

MoarCowbell98Jul 8, 20166 votes

they make it hard to balance champions who have strong abilities but high mana costs to compensate. like last season I abused mana pots on lux because I could rush luden's in lane and just stomp my lane. it allowed me to spam all day as well without having to worry about running out of mana. it makes someone who shouldn't be able to spam, able to spam.

so by removing them it allows them to balance easier. i was initially upset as i couldnt abuse my freelo, but once you adjust you realize they were nothing more than something to be abused. now with the mage update mana isn't really an issue anymore anyway. you have 3 really good options to choose from for not having mana problems.

zlumpyJul 8, 20163 votes

It hurt non mages more. Some top laners were viable BECAUSE of spamming skill to farm/stay safe/actually be a threat even if an enemy bought specters cowl or armor.

Phoenix Kotori Jul 9, 20161 votes

item 2033 is every mana hungry top laner's friend just saying.

ArakadiaJul 8, 20161 votes

kk thanks

Jungle Lux GodJul 8, 20161 votes

Well, 3 really good options for laners.

None of them are particularly good on junglers except Tear of the Goddess, and the exclusive mana item we get doesn't even have an appropriate stat line for a mana item.

MoarCowbell98Jul 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Well, 3 really good options for laners.

None of them are particularly good on junglers except Tear of the Goddess, and the exclusive mana item we get doesn't even have an appropriate stat line for a mana item.

Honestly though that's the dream. To get non mana stats and not have to worry about mana. Imagine if ludens echo restored mans in a solo lane. It would become a rush every single game.

Runich echoes is perfect for mana sustain

Jungle Lux GodJul 9, 20161 votes

If you are powerfarming the jungle for 20 minutes yes. However, you also have something called ganking and teamfighting that makes it suboptimal for what AP junglers should have.

The mana expenditure for AP junglers is significantly higher than a similar laning mage, yet our mana options are strictly worse. If we go for Runic Echoes we have no mid-tier mana option that helps us before 10 minutes (which means we can't gank before 10 minutes unless we have blue buff, are manaless, or are named Nidalee, Elise, or Evelyn), we don't have Catalyst mana regen because it doesn't apply on monster damage, and we don't quite have Lost Chapter because we don't level up enough to use it in the jungle (although I could be wrong with this one, I haven't tested it yet) and can't always afford to get a Morellonomicon. We get Tear of the Goddess, but then we still need to double-dip on mana items with our Runic Echoes because we need that power spike from our jungle item.

Of course AP laners would kill for a mana-restoring Luden's Echo. That would be insanely broken. At the same time AP junglers would kill for a mana-restoring Rod of Ages that lets them rush RoA the same way laners do for even half the benefits laners get. That wouldn't be broken at all.

Jungle Lux GodJul 9, 20161 votes

So I did try Lost Chapter in game, and it turns out that you level up just enough to make it worthwhile with the mana regen from Hunter's Talisman. It's actually pretty good if you want the Morellonomicon, although it still has the same problem as Tear in that you unnecessarily double dip on mana items.

To be honest, having the AP jungle item build out of Lost Chapter would be amazing because your jungle mana item would actually build out of a mana item instead of Aether Wisp.

Vistha KaiJul 9, 20161 votes

Try playing Pantheon into Yasuo with Warlord and you soon realize this way of "balance", is actually playing favourites.

JetjoeJul 8, 20165 votes

because riots staff is a bunch of yordles

Vhan8765Jul 8, 201613 votes

Please don't offend yordles like so.

ArakadiaJul 8, 20161 votes

ROFL

Blue Moon WolfJul 8, 20162 votes

Honestly, they already have item 2031 . They could easily make a Mana version of that, then have it combine with to make item 2033 for a cheaper price (if necessary, buff it a bit so you can increase the price). There are some champs that desperately need the mana, but can get buy with 3 item 2003 's at the beginning and be fine the rest of the game. The fact that this isn't a thing really feels like a direct handicap for every mana champ vs resorceless or even energy champs.

AbyssphereJul 8, 20162 votes

Yes, because mana-reliant champions would just love to have to buy a refillable mana potion to compete with resourceless champions. Being required to waste an additional 150g on your mana would not in any way be a handicap versus energy/resourceless competitors.

Blue Moon WolfJul 8, 20162 votes

you realize that a lot of mana-reliant champs have to make an extra trip back to base JUST to upgrade item 2031 to item 2033 , just so they have enough mana for the laning phase, right? The handicap against energy/resourceless champs is already there. The fact that they can freely use abilities and only have to wait till the other person runs out of mana gives them an advantage over mana users, who pretty much are on a timer.

Having the option to get a refillable mana potion to help mana-users out in the laning phase is no more of a waist than buying a doran's items, a item 2043 to counter invisibility or buying item 2003 in general. Plus, and this is the important thing here, it's NOT required. you would not HAVE to buy it if you don't want to. No one would be forcing it to be bought, just like how no one is forced to buy item 1055 or item 2033 . This stuff is bought to help during the laning phase and dumped later on, that's how it works.

TeslynJul 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yes, because mana-reliant champions would just love to have to buy a refillable mana potion to compete with resourceless champions. Being required to waste an additional 150g on your mana would not in any way be a handicap versus energy/resourceless competitors.

http://www.picgifs.com/reaction-gifs/reaction-gifs/yes/yes057.gif you give me a way to extend being in lane as a mana hungry champ and i will show you a nightmare that you never have seen before.

but yes... i would love to have it.

AbyssphereJul 8, 20162 votes

Because it sucked to have to waste gold on mana pots for mana-reliant champions and widened the gap between mana-using and resourceless mid laners in particular. Mana-reliant champions and supports are far better off without needing to sink gold into those pots.

100T iLLJul 8, 20162 votes

to prevent people from having good early games

but then they made corruption potion amazing which defeated the purpose of removing them and crystaline flask

HorusEyeJul 8, 20161 votes

You're a patch late to be asking this one.

Something about helping to balance mana issues in terms of Blue buff & items, as well as the mana regeneration of all champions.

Especially since they buffed tons of AP items by giving them more mana & cdr, I don't see how Mana Pots were even needed now.

MrWasjigJul 8, 20162 votes

A patch? They were removed at the start of the Season :P

ArakadiaJul 8, 20161 votes

Hey, better late than never :D

Thanks for the info tho!

dod21Jul 8, 20161 votes

Riot took most of the mana regen items and sources, including mana pots, away from lanes/roles other than support (support items got hit recently on mana regen, just not as hard/deleted. when they introduced the new mage updates. As far as I can tell, they are trying to impose fairly strict mana gates on champions. Champions that benefit greatly from CDR (utilitarian/high base damage skills, etc.), yet have decent to high mana costs are really feeling this rework. One case in Point: Cho'gath, my main. But there are many others as well.