Don't underestimate how hard Riven is

cinomenapplebae·Jul 20, 2016·9 votes·3,412 views

I had someone play her first time in ranked before since they were against Rumble and Riven somewhat counters Rumble, She got 1 kill early then fed the rest of the game. Since the stereotype that Riven players are salty floats around it also creates another stereotype that Riven takes no skill, When playing Riven I have had many people say to me that she takes no skill and it really turns me away from playing her, I have even had a Garen say to me that she takes no skill.

https://i.gyazo.com/ae32d48b725aa7710534044344e4fb8d.png

She is counted as skill level 8 out of 10, She is considered as hard as Syndra Syndra is considered hard by alot of the community, but not Riven

https://i.gyazo.com/52428c18ee1123aeb9aefb830bfce1d6.png

I just want to ask the community to stop making stereotypes for champions like that players are salty.

64 Comments

RalanrJul 20, 20167 votes

Yeah Riven actually does take skill to play well. Sometimes you don't need to play her well to do good with her though.

She's a champion based around fighting games, which are known for button mashing victories.

CubíxJul 20, 20161 votes

Wasn't she based on marth from super smash bros. melee? or maybe just marth from the fire emblem games.

RalanrJul 20, 20161 votes

I think I remember reading her creator was a fan of fighting games and based her gameplay on it.

LordGeovanniJul 21, 20162 votes

she doesnt take skill she is better when used with some one with skill there is a big diffrence

I Go Pew Pew PewJul 20, 20164 votes

The only skill Riven takes is having a hard head.

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx106/jsteinz/faceroll30.jpg

Vistha KaiJul 20, 20164 votes

Use Riot-defined difficulties like it means something.

http://i.imgur.com/Z5QSNaO.png?noredirect

This is Katarina. Her difficulty is also "8". The only skills required to play Katarina are:

Quick fingers.
Knowing when to go in.

Which is EVERY SINGLE CHAMPION in the game.

You don't have to aim anything, you don't have to combo anything (beyond throwing Q first. That's so hard, right?), nor learn to cancel anything. There are no gimmicks, there are no "whoops I fucked up" moments unique to Katarina.

If you played Kha'Zix, Ekko, Lee Sin, Talon or any other melee diver/assassin you already mastered Katarina.

On the other hand you have Cassiopeia, who is "difficulty 10", but the essence of playing her is "Land Q, EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, ult if they are grouped and facing you".

RalanrJul 20, 20161 votes

Having been playing Ekko for a while, I think I can agree. I usually feed my ass off in ARAM with Kat because I'm not sure how to use her.

Last time I got her, I still made some dumb mistakes, but I understood her better. Even considering playing her in mid.

Vistha KaiJul 20, 20161 votes

I played nearly every assassin and of all of them Katarina has the least unique "inputs and outputs", as Riot likes to describe it.

That's also the main reason, she is generally undesirable, despite her winrate steadily rising each patch (Why, though? Dunno.).

Do they have reliable hard CC?

Yes - You're fuck.
No - Can you out-DPS them? a. Yes - pick Kat b. No - don't pick Kat

RalanrJul 20, 20161 votes

I suspect she'll be updated in the assassin update.

Vistha KaiJul 20, 20161 votes

She will, but we know, how hit'n'miss those updates actually are.

Critmaster GarenJul 20, 20164 votes

no one is questioning that riven is difficult to master.

the problem is that when someone mastered her, he can basically blow up people without counterplay. her animation cancelling allows her to blow her entire chain against you while locking you up with hard cc at the same time.

the famous riven cheese.

its on the same level of frustration as annies flash + q + tibbers. there is nothing you can do to prevent it or evade it other than staying out of lane.

there is no interaction in a fight with a skilled riven. win or loss almost entiely depends on her making a mistake rather than you playing well against her. between 2 skilled players the riven has the edge.

so her dependency on animation cancelling is still terrible design. shes far too strong when the player can animation cancel her abilities and auto attacks, and pretty much useless when he cant.

YumaS2AstralJul 20, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M32oVfaN,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2016-07-20T14:43:03.781+0000)

no one is questioning that riven is difficult to master.

the problem is that when someone mastered her, he can basically blow up people without counterplay. her animation cancelling allows her to blow her entire chain against you while locking you up with hard cc at the same time.

the famous riven cheese.

its on the same level of frustration as annies flash + q + tibbers. there is nothing you can do to prevent it or evade it other than staying out of lane.

there is no interaction in a fight with a skilled riven. win or loss almost entiely depends on her making a mistake rather than you playing well against her. between 2 skilled players the riven has the edge.

so her dependency on animation cancelling is still terrible design. shes far too strong when the player can animation cancel her abilities and auto attacks, and pretty much useless when he cant.

That's why I want Riot to rework Riven. So that she is not reliant on animation cancel to be a good champion, and at same time isn't toxic and counterplay-less if she is mastered. Unfortunately most Riven mains will not agree with that. But I still think that with a rework she would be less toxic. Yes she would have a lower skillcap but at same time Riot could potentially make her a strong champion that isn't gated by animation cancels and then she would be strong yet healthy for the game.

PermabannedGarenJul 20, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M32oVfaN,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2016-07-20T14:43:03.781+0000)

no one is questioning that riven is difficult to master.

the problem is that when someone mastered her, he can basically blow up people without counterplay. her animation cancelling allows her to blow her entire chain against you while locking you up with hard cc at the same time.

the famous riven cheese.

its on the same level of frustration as annies flash + q + tibbers. there is nothing you can do to prevent it or evade it other than staying out of lane.

there is no interaction in a fight with a skilled riven. win or loss almost entiely depends on her making a mistake rather than you playing well against her. between 2 skilled players the riven has the edge.

so her dependency on animation cancelling is still terrible design. shes far too strong when the player can animation cancel her abilities and auto attacks, and pretty much useless when he cant.

Is there any champion that isn't a juggernaut you don't whine about? A Garen main complaining about Riven? Really?

Even high elo Riven mains like Box Box have a lot of trouble in lane against Garen (but since Garen is a fundamentally terribly designed champion it's fine after laning phase, since Garen is dog shit outside of laning).

Furthermore, a high damage champion does a lot of damage if they get into melee with them? Gee you don't say? How is it any different from a Jax jumping on you and stunning you? I guess it might take somewhat more time, but he does way better sustained damage and is a significantly better duelist.

Riven is essentially an assassin, and unlike assassins like Zed her play-making ability in a team fight is extremely reliant on her having flash up. She trades reliable assassination (without flash) for hard CC and some in-built tankiness.

Also, Riven's stun is one of the shortest in the entire game, and her knock-up is telegraphed. And no, she can't knock you up in the duration of the stun without already using two Q's beforehand. Her stun lasts .75 seconds, the quick Q combo takes over two seconds.

Critmaster GarenJul 20, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Is there any champion that isn't a juggernaut you don't whine about? A Garen main complaining about Riven? Really?

Even high elo Riven mains like Box Box have a lot of trouble in lane against Garen (but since Garen is a fundamentally terribly designed champion it's fine after laning phase, since Garen is dog shit outside of laning).

Furthermore, a high damage champion does a lot of damage if they get into melee with them? Gee you don't say? How is it any different from a Jax jumping on you and stunning you? I guess it might take somewhat more time, but he does way better sustained damage and is a significantly better duelist.

Riven is essentially an assassin, and unlike assassins like Zed her play-making ability in a team fight is extremely reliant on her having flash up. She trades reliable assassination (without flash) for hard CC and some in-built tankiness.

Also, Riven's stun is one of the shortest in the entire game, and her knock-up is telegraphed. And no, she can't knock you up in the duration of the stun without already using two Q's beforehand. Her stun lasts .75 seconds, the quick Q combo takes over two seconds.

im not whining about her. i have no problems with dealing on her with garen.

i just dont like champions without counterplay or faulty designs. and no, garen is not actually a faulty design. until the mage rework, he was a decently strong champion with counterplay at every stage of the game. now he suffers from undertuned numbers due to a lot of indirect nerfs, but his core design is still fine.

there are a lot of champions who i think are fairly designed. a lot of the mages, some of the assassins, a lot of supports or tanks.

the burst chain of an animation cancelling riven doesnt have counterplay due to the cc chain she puts you under.

its just as bad as annies burst. whom i feel is one of the worst designed champions in the game.

i dont think riven should be a terrible or weak champion, but when she is strong in a fight is only when she relies on cheese mechanics.

riven is only strong, when she can lock you down with her stun and knockup and blow you up while you cant react or fight back. i simply think thats the wrong reason for her to be strong.

if you compare her to yasuo for example, i think he is a lot better designed champion. he too has a lot of outplay potential and a very high skillcap, but his power doesnt rely on the ability to make his opponent powerless to his aggression, but to actually outplay him.

while rivens animation cancelling takes a ton of practise and is difficult to pull off without a doubt, it is still a questionable, well actually pretty terrible mechanic in her case.

Dunkrius2gJul 21, 20161 votes

Is there any champion that isn't a juggernaut you don't whine about? A Garen main complaining about Riven? Really?

Damn Garen main on Garen main action.

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

nice tableJul 20, 20164 votes

sure riven takes skill, but riven players need to stop acting like they are "skilled" while they cant even animation cancel properly not to mention decision making or matchups.

tidegateJul 20, 20162 votes

Hardly any riven's can animation cancel, don't even pull that. Even Boxbox says he gets it like 75% of the time. It's extremely hard to play her 100% perfect but most of her skill cap lies in her positioning and timing your engage. Just because you might've played against someone that was trash and fed the shit out of you doesn't mean you did good. In fact it doesn't mean you can combo at all, it just means you got fed. The reason everyone says she takes no skill is because her ult and cc make her extremely good at snowballing and crushing 1v2s and 1v3s when ahead

RossendaleJul 20, 20163 votes

Riven has a low skill floor and high skill ceiling. Aka, she's pretty easy to pick up and not feed horribly with, but if you really want to use the champion to its' max potential you have to put in a lot of work. Most GOOD Riven players are actually very mechanically skilled with her. Gameplay and no Balance just has a hatejerk for the champion.

CaítlynJul 20, 20163 votes

Riven is easy. I got her in ARAM or One for All or something and stomped. All you do is R and spam and everything dies.

The only thing about her that takes skill is you playing like MasterYi or Katarina , wait for the right time to go in and wreck.

cinomenapplebaeJul 20, 20161 votes

In ARAM or One for All you cant always choose a champion with cc or a counter to Riven, You might have won since the enemy was all squishy and had no cc champions and you could just keep on doing your combo without the enemy stopping you. One of her worst counters is CC most tanks have cc and large amounts of health and armor, with both of those they can kill Riven very easily and not take damage from her.

ApocalypsicJul 20, 20167 votes

{quoted}

Riven is easy. I got her in ARAM or One for All or something and stomped. All you do is R and spam and everything dies.

The only thing about her that takes skill is you playing like or , wait for the right time to go in and wreck.

You have got to be joking me....

Based on all the posts you make on gameplay I can only wonder. Do you intentionally say things to inflame people?

RalanrJul 20, 20161 votes

I wonder the same thing half the time.

EndlessSorcererJul 20, 20163 votes

It can be rather difficult to tell whether someone is trolling or honestly that dumb through text.

However, I'm pretty sure that they are trolling.

inplaneJul 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You have got to be joking me....

Based on all the posts you make on gameplay I can only wonder. Do you intentionally say things to inflame people?

Doesn't he only post about controversial topics with little to no information and try to rake in upvotes? I haven't seen one insightful post from that user.

On topic, Riven is not easy at all. She requires the element of surprise much like Kat does. She's not killing anyone competent enough to back off as soon as she appears. Even if she tries to engage with Flash, people who keep track of it will know when to expect it.

RalanrJul 20, 20161 votes

Farming for upvotes? He's not very good.

inplaneJul 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Farming for upvotes? He's not very good.

This topic says so otherwise: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/A5AfJNpr-1-month-ago-make-taliyahs-w-vector-casting1?show=flat

Why it has so many upvotes will be a mystery only Sherlock Holmes can solve.

RalanrJul 20, 20161 votes

I take it back. Looks like really controversial topics work for him. Like anyone else.

101100111000Jul 20, 20162 votes

Riven isn't really hard to play.

You need a good connection for the weaving.

Otherwise nothing about Riven is really THAT hard.

DeltaRavenJul 20, 20162 votes

She has a low skill floor but a high skill ceiling.

She is one of those champions that have a kit that is easy to learn at a basic level but can do so much more when mastered, it's like other champions like Yasuo, Zed, or Vayne. Their kits aren't hard to learn at a basic level, but you can do so much more with practice. It irritates me when people are blinded by what people can do with them at a higher level and then get pissy when they can't do the same thing.

Not everyone can be Box Box, but you don't need to play Riven at Box Box's level to be successful.

YumaS2AstralJul 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

She has a low skill floor but a high skill ceiling.

She is one of those champions that have a kit that is easy to learn at a basic level but can do so much more when mastered, it's like other champions like Yasuo, Zed, or Vayne. Their kits aren't hard to learn at a basic level, but you can do so much more with practice. It irritates me when people are blinded by what people can do with them at a higher level and then get pissy when they can't do the same thing.

Not everyone can be Box Box, but you don't need to play Riven at Box Box's level to be successful.

I would add Vladimir to that list. He is actually easy to learn at a basic level. However, to completely master him is difficult as there are so many things you need to learn, for example, the proper runes and builds for him (he benefits from stacking CDR just like Riven) - you need to learn how to lane against his most difficult matchups, how to kite, how to deal with laners that could potentially destroy you if you don't mastered him such as Yasuo and Darius. And then you need to learn how to teamfight properly.

I don't even know how to explain correctly, but as a Vlad main I can tell the difference between a bad Vlad, a good Vlad, and a god Vlad. There are many bad Vlads, some good Vlads, but very few god Vlads.

PoskeJul 21, 20161 votes

Vlad is 10 times easier then riven. I main both....

YumaS2AstralJul 21, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M32oVfaN,comment-id=001100000000,timestamp=2016-07-21T00:38:21.705+0000)

Vlad is 10 times easier then riven. I main both....

Doesn't make Vlad easy to master, though.

PoskeJul 21, 20161 votes

Low skill flooor

Nope dude Unskilled riven is absolutely worthless

VekknaJul 20, 20162 votes

Riven's animation canceling in the heat of combat is very hard to pull off. Everything else about her is tard-mode with the number of dashes, short-cd shield, execute, AD ratios, no resource, etc.

She has one extremely difficult "mechanic," and the entire rest of her kit makes Sona look hard.

And if you want to tilt a Riven, just say Riven takes no skill. It works 100% of the time. The only reason anyone plays her is to feel like a badass.

VoidStaresBackJul 20, 20162 votes

To be fair, those difficulty bars aren't always the most accurate things in the world, but I do agree with you. Not all Riven players are dicks, and Riven has a deceptively high skill ceiling.

I think a part of the reason Riven and Vayne mains are stereotyped as salty is because their playstyles appeal to a certain subset of the playerbase that is more prone to that kind of behavior. I play Janna, Soraka, Taric, and Braum because they are good at keeping their allies alive, and that meshes really well with who I am as a person. Vayne and Riven are, at their core, hyper-aggressive carry roles, and attract people who enjoy playing that way.

BisaknospJul 20, 20161 votes

yeah i suck ass with riven sometimes i get an early kill but after that i feed usually when playing her sad

VivaLaKittenJul 20, 20161 votes

Idk, it seems like every Riven player I've met on the enemy team is rude then again, one of the kindest people I ever met mains Teemo

DolasaurJul 20, 20161 votes

Champion difficulty is a very loaded concept. If you want people to recognize you for playing a hard champ, then you should find a champ like Syndra where she's perceived to be hard.

If it just makes you sad that people are disrespectful... can't help you there. If I'd made a post like yours, it would have been titled more like "Don't create a negative atmosphere by undervaluing the effort people put into playing the game." But everyone can make the world nicer, one step at a time :) (So make sure that you don't say "Warwick takes no skill" either, just because you think you're higher on the champion complexity totem pole.)

cinomenapplebaeJul 21, 20161 votes

Yeah and i just want into another game where the Yorick said he had 50+ games on riven and that she was easy, He had 1 game on riven where he lost

inplaneJul 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yeah and i just want into another game where the Yorick said he had 50+ games on riven and that she was easy, He had 1 game on riven where he lost

People pretending OP.GG doesn't exist lol. 50+ games aren't even a lot, especially not for a champ as old as Riven is.

Dunkrius2gJul 21, 20161 votes

She takes skill. You can face smash the hell out of your keyboard but the truth is that if you want to win your games, you just need to play her sometime.

PoskeJul 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I had someone play her first time in ranked before since they were against Rumble and Riven somewhat counters Rumble, She got 1 kill early then fed the rest of the game. Since the stereotype that Riven players are salty floats around it also creates another stereotype that Riven takes no skill, When playing Riven I have had many people say to me that she takes no skill and it really turns me away from playing her, I have even had a Garen say to me that she takes no skill.

https://i.gyazo.com/ae32d48b725aa7710534044344e4fb8d.png

She is counted as skill level 8 out of 10, She is considered as hard as Syndra Syndra is considered hard by alot of the community, but not Riven

https://i.gyazo.com/52428c18ee1123aeb9aefb830bfce1d6.png

I just want to ask the community to stop making stereotypes for champions like that players are salty.

Riven yasuo and le bl are hardest champion to master Playing this game for 6 years quite confident in that

Oh and for those curious Zed is like in top 30. Azir is like top 10

LordGeovanniJul 21, 20161 votes

syndra hard? being able to have lots of options makes you hard?

Onion the FriedJul 21, 20161 votes

Riot's rankings and classifications all suck lol. Some funny ones are Katarina at an 8, Fiddle at a 9, and fucking rumble at a 10.

inplaneJul 21, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Onion the Fried,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M32oVfaN,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2016-07-21T03:56:07.646+0000)

Riot's rankings and classifications all suck lol. Some funny ones are Katarina at an 8, Fiddle at a 9, and fucking rumble at a 10.

To be fair, if you don't use Rumble's Overheating mechanic at an optimal level, you're not going to do much in lane. Fidd is harder than most people think he is. He has no escape and proper vision along with CC shuts him down hard.

cinomenapplebaeJul 21, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Onion the Fried,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M32oVfaN,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2016-07-21T03:56:07.646+0000)

Riot's rankings and classifications all suck lol. Some funny ones are Katarina at an 8, Fiddle at a 9, and fucking rumble at a 10.

katarina and fiddle are just old and rumble is acctually hard, I've never seen a good one in bronze

Forgotten MomentJul 25, 20161 votes

this guy plays riven quite well as a gold https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxsqXJnyz7w

Maximum MordeJul 25, 20161 votes

Did someone say hard? I just woke up so I can relate.

Pandemic PunchJul 25, 20161 votes

Next time someone tells you that X champion does not take skill, just ask them, "Then why aren't you in challenger by spamming X champion?".

Also, don't be deterred by people saying a champion is easy. Keep playing the champion if you like it. They are just mad because they are losing. They are in no state to be teaching you the game and to be maintaining logical consistency at the same time.

They are just goofy ass people who are mad at you because they are losing at a video game.