One more thing for Garen

King Odin·Apr 10, 2015·31 votes·3,398 views

COOLDOWN 160/120/80 seconds ⇒ 120/100/80 seconds

But can I ask for one more thing and can you remove the slow that is applied when he spins through minions based on points? Something like this:

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140108041510/leagueoflegends/images/1/15/Judgment.png ACTIVE: Garen rapidly spins his sword around his body for 3 seconds, dealing physical damage each second to enemies within range. Minions take 75% damage from Judgment. Garen ignores unit collision while spinning, but moves 20/15/10/5/0% slower when travelling through minions. The slow is reduced by 5% for every point put in it.

24 Comments

junglerboy16Apr 10, 201518 votes

Reason this will never happen: Garen is a lane bully, kiting through minions is the healthiest counterplay they can add to his kit in order to avoid that.

He needs late game buffs, not early game buffs.

GloriousKaiserApr 10, 20157 votes

Isn't level 9 around the time laning phases end?

Elo GuyApr 10, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Isn't level 9 around the time laning phases end?

Yes but minions don't disappear after the laning phase

GloriousKaiserApr 10, 201515 votes

Then it's not a earlygame buff. It's a mid game buff.

Elo GuyApr 10, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Then it's not a earlygame buff. It's a mid game buff.

Garen doesn't need an early game buff. He needs something to help him stay relevant when ahead.

GloriousKaiserApr 10, 20155 votes

Okay I never said as much?

Elo GuyApr 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Okay I never said as much?

I didn't see that you were replying to the first comment.

junglerboy16Apr 10, 20153 votes

Yes it is, but having the slow already reduced by half at rank 3 (usually lvl 5 in game) is a big deal because that is when Garen's bullying is at it's highest point, right before he goes ham to try and all in you with his ult.

maybe it could work if they made it slow him by 30/22.5/15/7.5/0, because then even at lvl 5 he would still be almost as slowed as now, OR (and this would be the better overall option) they could add a passive to his Q where ranks in Q decrease the self slow of Judgement by 5% down to 0%. that way the slow reduction isn't linked to the actually ability being ranked up, which both gives Garen more ability ranking choices, and separates the issue from the solution in a way that keeps his laning healthy but allows him to keep up late game.

SecretAgentHulkApr 10, 20152 votes

IDK, making it an ult passive seems like the most consistent way to gate it if late game is where he needs a buff.

junglerboy16Apr 10, 20152 votes

well the thing is, his E is what makes him a really strong lane bully, so being able to kite him if he maxes that is good counterplay. If he maxes Q, his bully potential gets reduced a lot, but you can't kite him as much. I think that is better than having it on his ult, because instead of just being a vanilla "wait until 16 and you don't slow down" it is a dynamic choice for Garen.

SantoJoeApr 10, 20156 votes

Garen is not a bully laner anymore with the current meta. And this change is just a QoL improvement, it won't change the problem with its dual behavior.

killd0zerApr 11, 20152 votes

It's not a QoL change its a direct buff

Buttigieg 2020Apr 11, 20152 votes

As if garen needs to be harder to kite....

junglerboy16Apr 11, 20151 votes

No, the whole point is that the OP is asking for him not to be as hard to kite, and having it directly linked to leveling up his E removes that anti-bully mechanic too early.

Smitty ManjensenApr 10, 201514 votes

I think the most important thing they should do is bring back the AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAa when he spins.

MetalGearTeemuApr 10, 20158 votes

I was under the impression garen was a champion that was an example of having no play, only counterplay. every aspect of his kit is kitable, and the opponent chooses when he has passive.

I also find it humorous that people still go on about garen should be kitable through minions with the slow, when champions like Riven and darius exist, who both bully harder, and have better closers/control without drawbacks

Focus TeemoApr 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I was under the impression garen was a champion that was an example of having no play, only counterplay. every aspect of his kit is kitable, and the opponent chooses when he has passive.

I also find it humorous that people still go on about garen should be kitable through minions with the slow, when champions like Riven and darius exist, who both bully harder, and have better closers/control without drawbacks

Are you implying League of Legends and things in it change over time, based upon new champions releases, reworks, adding and removal of items, or nerfs and buffs of summoner spells, items, and champions? Nope i refuse to believe that anything has changed at all... the very notion is simply preposterous! In fact who is Garen... Is that a nick name for one of the 40 champions in this game?

On a more serious note Garen at present is what constitutes a strong laner, but a strong laner is not the same as a lane bully. His bullying potential is just average among the top lane champion pool these days, and his snowball isn't exactly exceptional. Changing his self slow is a step in the right direction. Simply put i agree with you as there's no reason to hold something against Garen, when its no longer true. Now here is another joke depicting the fact league does in fact change over time...

Critmaster GarenApr 11, 20155 votes

they probably wont do it like this.

but i agree, that this was intended as an early game mechanic. and its affecting him too much lategame. the self slow should be removed upon ranking up judgement to rank 5. this is a reasonable buff to his lategame, while keeping the mechanic through the lane phase.

OR (and this would be the better overall option) they could add a passive to his Q where ranks in Q decrease the self slow of Judgement by 5% down to 0%. that way the slow reduction isn't linked to the actually ability being ranked up, which both gives Garen more ability ranking choices, and separates the issue from the solution in a way that keeps his laning healthy but allows him to keep up late game.

attaching it to his q would also be a valid option. maybe even better than what i was proposing.

OmnipheriousApr 11, 20151 votes

Q does seem like the less troublesome option compared to E, but would they really add this passive effect though?

Q takes up quite a bit of his power budget as is (probably 2nd highest after W) and with how careful they are being I wouldn't expect them to touch Q anymore. In all honesty, I would expect Riot to implement something more along the lines of, "E doesn't self-slow while W is active".

Iron RubricApr 10, 20152 votes

He used to ignore collision, long long ago in the before time

ErijianApr 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

He used to ignore collision, long long ago in the before time

He also used to be immune to Slows while using Judgment, later to have that effect turned to 50% slow resistance and then finally moved to Decisive Strike in place of a one-time slow removal.

Anyway that self-slow just hurts him the entire game while its intention is to stop his extreme bullying in lane. It needs to scale down with something. (Also can that 75% damage reduction not apply to Super Minions please Riot?)