Zac nerf when?

ACENOX·Oct 9, 2016·27 votes·2,159 views

47 Comments

Malicious MetalOct 9, 201613 votes

The thing about Zac is that he's a Jack of all trades with nothing he 100% excels at over other champions. Nautilus got more CC Sejuani got a more reliable engage ultimate Skarner got more objective control and damage

And so on

He really needs a bit more of a strategic niche, that's the reason Riot considers to give Tanks the next roster update

TheSingularityOct 9, 20166 votes

^^^that But to add, unlike most fotm picks he hasn't just popped up in power overnight due to direct buffs to him or indirect buffs due to items.

His current reign is due to a lack of competition in the form of dps junglers like yi and xin zhao. As well as a maintained prominence of burst orientated junglers, mids and adc's. ie elise vik and ez.

Any dps jungler with a bloodrazor will crush a zac. As will cass, fizz, rumble, kennen and brand as mids. A non burst adc who's got an executioners calling will fare well but vayne has the best shot.

Malicious MetalOct 9, 20169 votes

^This^

Zac may get extremely tanky but he's very susceptible to DPS. You can't burst the blob and if you lack strong dps he'll win the battle of attrition

Stuff like Yi, Vayne and the like completely destroy him though.

But yes, he can feel kinda oppressive due to his very strong early ganking and him becoming really tanky while dealing decently high damage as well. But so does Nautilis, well, top lane at least.

TheSingularityOct 9, 20161 votes

Ah naut can still hold his own in the jungle. Weĺl at least till kindred yi and vayne return to the top of the food chain

RalanrOct 9, 20161 votes

Most tank junglers fall under the heel of those champions honestly.

EndlessSorcererOct 9, 20161 votes

Don't forget the popularity of many immobile laners (i.e. Jhin, MF, Vel'koz, Rumble, etc).

Motel 6 RatOct 9, 20161 votes

Ezreal is definitely not a burst adc

Imperial JapanOct 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LnoExUV5,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-10-09T09:30:21.680+0000)

The thing about Zac is that he's a Jack of all trades with nothing he 100% excels at over other champions. Nautilus got more CC Sejuani got a more reliable engage ultimate Skarner got more objective control and damage

And so on

He really needs a bit more of a strategic niche, that's the reason Riot considers to give Tanks the next roster update

Or maybe it's because they already covered 1.marksman 2. Juggernauts 3. Mages 4. (About to) Assassins

Legacy HydralphaOct 9, 20161 votes

The next roster update is likely going to be divers, something Zac does as well.

15 krepoOct 9, 20165 votes

Zac hasn't been touched in like a year since they changed his e to a 1 sec knock up. Only thing that has changed is his popularity and nerfs to alternate junglers i.e. Gragas. Only reason people are calling for nerfs now is because they have no idea how to deal with him, because they had never seen him before. Lol as others have stated, dps champs are his big weakness. Fix the dps junglers=fixing the root problem.

EhlekarOct 10, 20162 votes

Exactly. One of the reasons why Zac is so strong is that he requires different warding techniques to deal with his long range engages (e.g. look at how pros had to deal with Rengar when Reignover played him last year, deep warding in lanes to see when the engage is coming in, Zac also requires non-standard warding). Its not the fact that Zac himself is particularly strong, its more he's a slightly above average jungler who requires more thought from the enemy team.

Best princess EUOct 9, 20164 votes

i'm surprised by how a tank can be allowed to bring 3 aoe cc, mobility, and having a great DPS at the same time because of his W bringing damage over time and countering other tanks.

nice.

TheSingularityOct 9, 20161 votes

Cos none of it is stuns, he has horrid scalings so he drops off hard compared to tanks like sej and malphite and there are plenty others with the same amount of utility and dmg.

Sej; q we r are all aoe cc. W is dps, q is mobility and her w scales with hp granting superior scaling. Gragas: qer aoe cc, e mobility and spammable dps. Sion: qer aoe cc, not necessarily mobile but he offers team dps through his armour shredding e. Naut: p 5 man snare potentially, er aoe cc, W dps, q mobility. Gnar: q (q e r) mega aoe cc, e mobility, w dps

DracocrashOct 9, 20163 votes

knockups are better than stuns. FYI.

RalanrOct 9, 20161 votes

Only because they cannot be affected by outside sources.

TheSingularityOct 9, 20161 votes

I'd rather stun a yi than knock him up And zacs spells displace peope more than just about anything in the game. Making it easy to fuck up and knock divers onto your carries

flyingbaklavaOct 9, 20161 votes

Just a heads up, but Sion as 4 seconds worth of aoe knockup in his kit. Hell, his Q has a 2.25 second knockup, more then Zacs entire kit... Probably not the right complaint to have against Zac.

Motel 6 RatOct 9, 20162 votes

There's a huge difference, Every single one of Sion's abilities are extremely easy to dodge/counter (thus having overloaded damage and CC times)

Zac's abilities can still be dodged and outplayed, but it takes a lot more to do so than with Sion.

Champion SkinOct 9, 20162 votes

Ehh... if you have a knock back and good enough reaction Zac is kind of useless (if you have vision of Zac you can also try to buffer the knock back)

Motel 6 RatOct 9, 20161 votes

As I said, Zac can be outplayed and dodged but it isn't near as easy.

flyingbaklavaOct 10, 20161 votes

Zac telegraphs his elastic slingshot for over a second at max range and can knocked out of it with a knockback. I get knocked out of elastic slingshot all the time by Alistar grounds slams and thresh flays. If the enemy team has a Janna or Poppy, I don't even bother trying to use elastic slingshot offensively. Counter play exists, that is why he is hardly played professionally.

TheSingularityOct 9, 20161 votes

Why? Only means sion has more cc making him an even better example

flyingbaklavaOct 10, 20161 votes

Yet sion isnt played professionally and isn't meta at all. The amount of CC a champion has doesnt not make them OP. A combination of damage, utility, mobility and CC work together to make a champion strong. The more counter play that champion has, the less OP they are. If you interrupt or dodge elastic slingshot, gj, you've just made zac useless. His entire kit revolves around landing that ability, which is telegraphed for over a second before he lands. There is a reason you almost never see zac played professionally.

TheSingularityOct 10, 20161 votes

"Yet sion isnt played professionally" "There is a reason you almost never see zac played professionally"

It is very difficult to take you seriously when you appear to make no clear point/contradict yourself.

"damage, utility, mobility and CC" you merely listed things zac is good at. There're plenty of strong champs who lack these and others who are strong by other means. (Sustain, beef, counters/lack thereof)

BoulderoxOct 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sanji fanboy,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LnoExUV5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-10-09T08:59:52.150+0000)

i'm surprised by how a tank can be allowed to bring 3 aoe cc, mobility, and having a great DPS at the same time because of his W bringing damage over time and countering other tanks.

nice.

Nautilus ?

VeltoxOct 9, 20163 votes

https://media.makeameme.org/created/get-out-of-4r7im8.jpg He needs damn good aim and predictability to hit his e vs players that actually have reflexes. Should i mention it can be intrerupted by almost every cc in this game?

His passive?I know he can turtle under turret and collect it to survive all the laning phase despite your harass but did you know you can step on it?

Ult?It has a delay and it ain't even much besides knockup considering he needs e to use it in teamfights unless he got flash.

Jinzo TorranceOct 9, 20162 votes

Why? Is he picked at worlds and now people are bleating that he's the new hidden OP champion? Or just don't realize that his E is just like Aatrox Q in terms of how easy is to stop it?

Imperial JapanOct 9, 20162 votes

I like how Zac is treated as OP right as people start playing him. Not because he got buffed, but because people actually just legitimately started playing him

Motel 6 RatOct 9, 20161 votes

He's treated as OP because the meta shifted into an extremely favorable meta for him.

(Immobile characters in all lanes, other top tier junglers that were better than him got nerfed relatively hard)

Imperial JapanOct 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Teach AD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LnoExUV5,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2016-10-09T15:59:14.277+0000)

He's treated as OP because the meta shifted into an extremely favorable meta for him.

(Immobile characters in all lanes, other top tier junglers that were better than him got nerfed relatively hard)

He just made a surprise entrance mainly with Sneaky. There are still many ways to counter him it'll just take people some time to adapt

RalanrOct 9, 20161 votes

People usually cry before adapting.

Though I end up banning Zac when I can because his teamfight potential is nuts.

Imperial JapanOct 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

People usually cry before adapting.

Though I end up banning Zac when I can because his teamfight potential is nuts.

SanctimoniousOct 9, 20162 votes

He's fine imo. As soon as other champions leave the meta, so will he. If he needs nerfs, it will be slight imo.

Papa AndreiOct 9, 20161 votes

The only nerf he needs is that uis CC for like E is dependant on charge duration. Other than that he is in a solid state. Good cx and damage, but can't carry alone

Unstoppable MonkOct 9, 20161 votes

I stand by my down-voted statement that Zac is somewhat balanced. That doesn't mean he doesn't have a little too much from the S6 masteries and some extra hidden power that isn't needed. Seriously, the extra blob bonus from E has to be deleted and probably could use a slightly lower duration of E knockup.

DracocrashOct 9, 20161 votes

wow. Ive seen about 10 nerf zac threads that all got downvoted into oblivion

What changed? did the boards sheeple finnaly realize?

MLDzXnRRROct 9, 20161 votes

AP Zac is OP. Tank Zac is meh...

Champion SkinOct 9, 20161 votes

Zac will get nerfed when champions with knock backs (knock ups also work) become popular... as they can cancel his E... and if Zac has his E canceled... he doesn't really have any other tools of getting into a fight (and it is also his only hard CC outside of his ultimate)

SwiftKitten88Oct 9, 20161 votes

stop bring up "he is picked in worlds" bullshit as an excuse for players calling him op.. i permabanned him for at least 2 weeks prior to worlds starting.

i knew he was OP WAY before "worlds"

AstôlfoOct 9, 20161 votes

Whenever his counters get buffed again. Zac himself does not need nerfs.

PapaGreg21Oct 9, 20161 votes

The only reason Zac seems good is because Junglers are generally in a weak spot right now. I feel it is more a case that others need to be buffed instead of him nerfed.

SiG DxDOct 9, 20161 votes

gragas < zac < sejuani cycle?

SpecterVonBarenOct 9, 20161 votes

My only real issue with Zac is that he has a surprising amount of burst damage even with just a little AP and its frustrating to get burst down by him from a thousand teemo's away while being unable to react because of his E ult combo.

PrometheSOct 10, 20161 votes

when he's actually OP... he really isn't... people are just rediscovering him

the buff to his passive helps him late game but isn't enough to make him OP

he's top tier though and I'd say if any other top tier jgs get nerfed, he might become OP

SwiftKitten88Oct 10, 20161 votes

its already on pbe actaully.. now that we will actually be able to see the landing spot..

SeenanOct 10, 20161 votes

makes the same topic and gets 5 downvotes lul

SylvantOct 10, 20161 votes

i just dont understand how this unavoidable hard engage is tolerated. In game where Amumu gap closer and Blitz grabs can be crucial, we have a champion which can hit on the enemy from an incredible range, with no possible counter play to it. Ok Noc can do the same, but its his ult. We got other similar ults like Sion and Kled, but they have a warning and are ULT. Fiddle also has a similar approach, but its much easier to ward for it and he is pretty much a one trick ponny. How does Zac ability fits in that meta? He is literally banned in every ranked game a play, every. I cant say whats his pick rate cause of this constant bad rate and i dont even care, but i know when he is picked, he produces a ton of unavoidable engages