"_______ is not unbalanced, you just cannot make mistakes against them."

aceofthegod·Mar 8, 2016·181 votes·9,448 views

Had a discussion with a friend about balanced champs. Champs like Yasuo, Zed, and Vayne came up. He said "they're balanced, you just can't make a single mistake against them or they will steamroll you for the entire match." Which to me, says it's unbalanced. If a champ requires such precise play that you can't make a single mistake without instantly losing lane and getting snowballed out of the lane, that says there's a lack of balance.

I'm also a bit biased as these are my top 3 most hated champs.

282 Comments

VictoryDance96Mar 8, 201699 votes

You forgot to mention Fizz. I believe Rito's suggestion to counter him is basically to find a different lane...

C0ffinMar 8, 20166 votes

{quoted}

You forgot to mention Fizz. I believe Rito's suggestion to counter him is basically to find a different lane...

omg your so right

La BarbotteMar 8, 201665 votes

Galio i dont think i need to move, pack your bags fizz, im here to stay

HayRossMar 8, 201633 votes

What the hell are you? Is that the new champion?

Spaceman5pffMar 8, 201637 votes

I believe that is..... Galileo?

NarasimhaMar 8, 201631 votes

No, that's a scientist, the name is Galleon.

Spaceman5pffMar 8, 201628 votes

Nono that is a large seafaring vessel. You are talking about Gallifrey

NarasimhaMar 8, 201620 votes

Non, that is the (ex?)planet of the Time Lords

I think you mean to say Gallium.

CubedJusticeMar 8, 201621 votes

No, that's an easily meltable metal. You mean Galactus.

SkyBlade79Mar 8, 201623 votes

No, that's a Marvel supervillain.

Pretty sure that you meant Gallbladder.

BârdMar 8, 201620 votes

No, no, that is an internal organ.

You are referring to the Gallows.

Zenthon PrimeMar 8, 20164 votes

No, that's an old nickname for the places people were hanged.

You're thinking of Galio.

Velzard of KozMar 8, 201620 votes

And people this is how canaaite legends were turned into the Bible

TaoistMasterMar 8, 201618 votes

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

MelledoneusMar 8, 201613 votes

No, Gallows are platforms where people are hanged for execution.

I'm pretty sure the name you were looking for Galipot.

WoblyMar 8, 201610 votes

No, that's a byproduct of pine trees.

You must mean Gallipoli.

macromiteMar 8, 20168 votes

no a galley is a kind of ship,

I'm positive that you mean Gallon

yoniameMar 8, 20166 votes

no its not gallon, its measurement unit, i thnk you meant galloppe

ahferroin7Mar 8, 20165 votes

And then Fizz builds all AD with item 3153 and item 3147 and you die to the %HP damage anyway...

YumaS2AstralMar 8, 20167 votes

{quoted}

And then Fizz builds all AD with and and you die to the %HP damage anyway...

AD Fizz does not build those items. Well, Blade of the Ruined King is a good item for him still, due to the passive effect having synergy with his W. However, this item is no longer core. item 3124 is THE new core item for AD Fizz. And with that item, he still deals a lot of magic damage.

AMYS GRAVEMar 8, 201611 votes

item 3124 is THE core item for virtually everyone.

YumaS2AstralMar 8, 20165 votes

{quoted}

is THE core item for virtually everyone.

If you are an auto-attack reliant duelist or your name is Kog'Maw, you are probably going to take a lot of advantage from this item.

EROTIC RAID BOSSMar 8, 20163 votes

How do you even give him a kill before 6 though

AuryielMar 8, 201611 votes

His level 2-3 all-in is very powerful against squishies, but other than that usually laning versus him pre-6 is not that hard

YossarianSenseiMar 8, 201630 votes

Those are pretty bad examples because you can actually make quite a few mistakes against them and recover

Good examples would be stuff like: Annie Veigar especially pre rework Garen Darius

Not to say they're OP or anything, but the common theme among these champs is they have a very specific play pattern that basically says "Don't do 'X' or you'll get destroyed"

48983507DEL1Mar 8, 20165 votes

At least with Annie and Veigar you can still farm from range in Mid Lane. Top Lane you gotta get too close for comfort.

GuiltyGeckoMar 8, 201630 votes

In other words, if a champion's counter-play boils down to "Wait for them to make a mistake" then that's not counter-play.

48983507DEL1Mar 8, 201621 votes

I think it's the other way around; if a champion's gameplay boils down to "1 mistake = loss" then they don't have healthy counter-play.

Also, everyone is forgetting Blitzcrank

DengedenMar 8, 20163 votes

That's because blitz gets hardcountered by a decently farmed tank.

SaphixiaMar 8, 201614 votes

If u make a mistake against malzahar you get heavily punished, but he is in a good state atm

TaoistMasterMar 8, 20165 votes

malz mains want you to shut up

yoniameMar 8, 20164 votes

Malz: if has ult: MasterYi Zed Fizz and anyone with item 3140 can completely dodge it, or build 1 item 1033 and he already can'T 1 rotate you Malz: if he doesn'T has ult: all he can do is hope enemy is noob enough to dodge his q ad run into his E on minion lane, as he has low range and a 100%usuless W.

AnidanMar 8, 20168 votes

If your Malz is so weak he can't kill you in one rotation just because you bought a Null-Magic Mantle then you were playing with as, with, or against a very shitty Malzahar. He must have not went back and bought himself any items either, trying to all-in you with a Doran's Ring and some pots or something to your extra item advantage.

GeneralfloodMar 8, 201610 votes

who cares about what your friend said lmao

WukongMainMar 8, 20168 votes

the thing about not being able to make mistakes is because after you've made that one mistake... Based on your knowledge of how snowbally the enemy champion is...It's gonna make you play worse and worse. Basically...After your first mistake...Instant tilt. Which just makes their snowball that much more effective. It's completely easy to play against these champions even if you make a few mistakes. You just have to understand why it was a mistake, and how to correct it. Okay, so you gave zed a kill...Now he can basically kill you whenever he wants...Don't Give Him the chance too Ask your jungler to camp and go in for the gank when zed makes hes overly aggresive play...Cause we all know hes gonna do it lol. If your jungler doesn't wanna do that...Try roaming instead. Maybe you can score a kill in another lane. and even the playing field between you and zed. Maybe you can completely change your build to counter him.. there are endless ways you can still play after you've made a mistake.

You just have to recognize what way bests fits you. and how to apply them.

Spaceman5pffMar 8, 201620 votes

Issues with this: -most junglers will never camp a lane because they went behind. Especially vs zed, the power of tilt is too strong and the laner will just keep dying every time they try to set up a gank -zed, being a manaless, high waveclear magesassin that builds AD will EASILY shove in your wave and work down your turret, while the likelihood of you getting a kill from roaming is nowhere near 100%. Now zed has a bigger farm/gold lead and you MAYBE got a kill or assist. -Building to counter him is fine if you are AD, but Zhonyas rush is a pretty shitty build for waveclear / roaming. no mana regen, no movespeed, no mana if you shove in to set up your roam, he can kill you in your cooldowns / you will not have enough mana to effectively roam. OR ZED FOLLOWS YOU DOWN BECAUSE HE HAS A LEAD AND CAN NULLIFY YOU ANYWHERE YOU GO

DengedenMar 8, 20163 votes

Zed's only way to meaningfully harass you is to W forward, the jungler can gank as soon as he does that.

Building to counter him can also mean stacking CDR to the point where your CC/ult/waveclear is constantly up. He'll have a much harder time killing you then.

Spaceman5pffMar 8, 20169 votes

The issue with Zed is not after 2 or 3 items are completed. There is a distinct point between 0-2 items where there is nothing that the vast majority of the champion pool can do to keep him in check. That is just ridiculous.

Over InnsmouthMar 8, 20167 votes

IMO, Yasuo and Zed are balanced.

Yasuo is balanced around having a higher than average skill floor and needing to still build at least two crit items for maximum damage output, instead of all those other glass cannons who go around building juggernaut. Zed is balanced around being 75% skillshot-based and being supremely useless in the wrong hands, as well as pretty much every class having anti-Zed itemization at their disposal ( item 3157 for AP's, item 3139 for AD's and tanks are just tanky. Granted, Zed's power level is pretty over the top right now due to the vast amount of anti-AP and ArPen in the game atm.

I do think that Vayne is unbalanced in the sense that there's very little weakness in her base kit to abuse beyond outranging her, and that there's no anti-itemizing against her. I suppose she's supposed to be balanced like Yasuo (relatively high skill floor) but since she's ranged and has free dashes (unlike Yas who is melee and has targeted dashes), she's got a huge amount of margin for error.

If you want to ask me about unbalanced, here's mine: Fiora Leblanc Fizz Graves .

Then there's a whole slew of Champions that are somewhat balanced, but too strong because Riot gives them too much love: Ahri LeeSin (to name a few).

Again, just my opinions.

WeiseAzirMar 8, 20164 votes

Yasuo is unblanaced because of an overloaded kit. Data shows his winrates rise to 55% when played more than 125 games. Once more yasuo is a late game win button. All he needs is a bad midlaner to kill, the only way to beat him is to have their Nexus down in fifteen minutes.

SHlTBUGMar 8, 201612 votes

a 55% WR at 125 games is really really really really common, I don't understand how you can use that as evidence

All difficult champions have a general curve of around 47-54% based on number of games played, some tend higher and some lower. See Talon as an example. 59% WR at 125 games played, but <50% WR at less than 5.

WeiseAzirMar 8, 20162 votes

the difference between the two is Yasuo goes up infinitely lategame while Talon decreases from game start.

Mecha MaIphiteMar 8, 20169 votes

That's completely irrelevant to the discussion. The original idea was that mastering any champion should be able to give you a >50% winrate.

SHlTBUGMar 8, 20164 votes

this does not change the topic of winrate vs. number of games played on a champion and is completely irrelevant, as scaling does not impact overall winrate (ex. just because nasus scales better than lee sin does not mean nasus is better than lee sin)

46104328_DELMar 8, 20166 votes

Dude, you're talking like a rational, thinking person in the circle-jerkingest place on earth... You brave, brave fool.

Gregor GysiMar 9, 20163 votes

Zed is balanced and the other 2 are actually UP.

BeeFunkyMar 9, 20163 votes

Most champions can and will punish mistakes, obviously assassins and duelists do this much better than everyone else.

invisiblecat1Mar 9, 20162 votes

Zed, walk near hit ulti or W ulti range and get deleted at level 6 or be forced to use both summoner which means a future kill Vayne, stand near a wall and get stunned (That is kinda it since early game even though she may have 1-2 kills you can still kill her) Yasuo, Luck based still he gets 2!!! item, and if he gets a lucky crit he will almost always win the trade unless they are dumb Fizz, Low Risk high reward Darius, dive in 1v5 but one shot everyone with 1k true damage and heal up tons of hp Ekko, Deals 1/2 of your hp and then you are slowed while he runs away Kog'Maw, get too close to him and you are forced to fight or he will kill you in 5 seconds Yi, can't slow him while he runs at you and kills you in 4 hits Xin Zhao, Crits every few aas, and heals for all the damage Ezreal, abuses Ice Born and will deal AoE damage and AoE slows, while deal so much damage and finally who can forget the most fun of them all LeBlanc, At level 2 R.I.P 1/2 of your hp, and good luck ganking her and chasing her

Swae7Mar 9, 20162 votes

DUDE WHAT CHAMP DO YOU PLAY?? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?? IF YOU HATE THIS MANY CHAMPIONS, QUIT LEAGUE! U SUCK ANYWAY.

AeszarckMar 10, 20163 votes

Whoa there man. I don't agree with a lot of the statements he made, but that was one hell of a mean post. Don't put people down like that. The champion he mains is irrelevant, whatever mental or physical disorders he has are none of your business, he can hate as many champions as he wants as long as he has rational thoghts to back up his hatred, and telling him that he sucks is absolutely uncalled for. Whether he is good or bad compared to you does not pertain to this discussion, and you insulting him like that is terrible manners.