Stupid Idea: Support Vision Changes

Glory ln Death··2 votes·827 views

Vision has always been a central part of the Support role, and it likely will always be that way. The vision game has changed a lot since the beginning of League, and it should continue to grow and develop. One of the big issues with supports and vision is how much the role is shaped by Sightstone. It's basically a mandatory item that has to be built every game, preferably early on. But it lacks much presence beyond the wards it provides, only giving a small amount of health, and it takes up a valuable item slot that could be used for other items.

An item that players look at, thinking "It would be nice to get a better item, but I need what this item provides" should not be a mandatory item. It should be something optional that players get under certain circumstances where they feel they really need it, and they are willing to give up better stats for it.

Why not change the support role's vision items to allow them a bit more flexibility and freedom in their itemization? Rather than 2 nearly mandatory items (Sightstone + gold gen), boots and a few extra items. The ideal situation would be having only one mandatory item - gold gen - similar to junglers having the mandatory jungle item.

In the vision game, supports have 2 big roles: creating and denying vision. Currently, they create vision using Sightstone and deny it with either Control Wards or red trinket. Supports would need to retain the ability to do these two things if any changes were made.

item 3097 item 3096 item 3098 item 3340 Move Sightstone's current ward active to a trinket upgrade that is only available if the player has a second-tier gold gen item. Sightstone would no longer be a mandatory item, and space would be freed in the supports' inventory. The gold gen items would necessarily become more expensive to compensate. This would maintain supports' current ability to create vision in games, with little change other than build path.

Supports could purchase the second-tier items first instead of always being pressured to get Sightstone. The gold gen items give stats the supports want more than the flat, generic health on Sightstone and they help supports earn even more gold. Obviously, that is something supports would want early, rather than having to wait until after buying Sightstone.

item 3401 item 3069 item 3092item 2303 item 2302 item 2301 item 3341 However, supports still need some way to deny vision, other than slapping control wards everywhere. With the Sightstone trinket taking up the trinket slot, they can no longer get Sweeping Lens to find and clear enemy wards. A second active can't be added to the gold gen items, so sweeper can't just be slapped onto those.

Thankfully, Riot recently added a useful passive to item 3147: "Blackout - When spotted by an enemy ward, causes a blackout for 8 seconds, disabling all nearby enemy wards and traps (90 second cooldown)." This could be added to the third-tier gold gen items to give supports their vision denial. This makes a price increase for the gold gen items even more important, since the higher price would simulate the level 9 barrier on the Sweeper upgrade.

item 2049 item 2045 item 2303 item 2302 item 2301 Sightstone would not be removed from the game, however. Instead of providing Stealth Wards, it could hold a charge of 1 Control Ward that replenishes at your fountain. One problem supports often face late game is not being able to carry Control Wards with them because their item slots are filled up. Sightstone gives some stats, and Ruby Sightstone gives its passive item CDR, so letting them provide Control Wards would allow supports to keep using them without completely giving up a slot.

Sightstone would not be mandatory this way, but it would be an item that was beneficial to buy in certain situations when you know you'll want Control Wards in the late game but don't just want an open slot for them. It would usually be a late game item bought based on need. Both Sightstone and Ruby Sightstone would only carry one Control Ward at a time, making it inefficient to use for just getting tons of free wards everywhere. It would just be more convenient and slightly better for stats than just buying the wards.

The third-tier "Eye" items would also provide Control Wards, presenting supports with the choice of (combat active with no control wards), (combat active with control wards that take up a slot), and (control wards that don't take up a slot but no combat active).

With these kinds of changes, supports would only have 1 mandatory item instead of 2, while still being able to fill their role of creating and denying vision. Supports would no longer be chained to Sightstone (and frequently get harassed for not buying it first) - they would have to get the second tier gold item first, but those give stats they actually want and improve gold generation. Which supports really want.

Whether or not this is the best solution, moving away from the mandatory Sightstone would be a huge help for supports - especially for making the role more appealing to non-support mains.

14 Comments

IcyPepper4 votes

Vision has always been a central part of the Support role, and it likely will always be that way.

I just have to ask. Why does it have to be that way?

If anything, I feel like the biggest argument (beyond supports basically having most of the vision items in the first place) is it's always been that way, and people don't want it changed. I dont' get any real reason beyond that.

Just speculation, what would happen if all purchaseable vision items were deleted? Would supports suddenly not be played anymore?

Risk of Fate2 votes

You'd still need someone with heals/shields/CC, so someone's going to always have to play the gold-starved role.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fate Fire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KPPcAhXT,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-12-22T06:16:02.148+0000)

You'd still need someone with heals/shields/CC, so someone's going to always have to play the gold-starved role.

there is nothing wrong with supports being gold starved as long as their items are tuned to their income.

ChaddyFantome3 votes

No. ofc not. Its the other way around. Vision is not core to supporting. it is simply a burden left to the support because no one else can deal with the item slot burden.

All removing it from the game does is remove the burden from the support players.

ChaddyFantome2 votes

Sightstone is only the "supports" job because its innate existence makes it mandatory every game to have one , but no one wants to build it because the item gives shit stats and is slot inefficient stat-wise on virtually every champ in the game.

It isn't core to jackall of a supports playstyle, all it is is a a deadweight. If anything, Sightstone is core to the vast majority of gameplay issues with supports.

  • Supports are the champs least suited to be out on their own and yet Sightstone encourage them to go out on their own to secure vision.

  • Supports are the most susceptible to falling behind on level and Sightstone amplifies and is to a degree at the heart of the issue because it encourages goign off to secure vision, instead of interacting in lane and this get EXP.

  • Supports already are a class that are dedicated to building for their team as opposed to themselves, and yet they dont even get to choose half of the items they build in a game because 3 out of 6 of them are chosen for them.

Boots/Suport starter item/sightstone

only recently were the Eye items introduced to make this less cumbersome but they come at the cost of powerful active items to help your team out.

  • Supports also have too many goddamn actives to deal with as is that having sightstone only make sit needlessly worse and removing it would make it far more manageable.

Sightstone is nothing more than an antiquated relic, a wrench in the machine that is league that Riot leaves more out of tradition and laziness than anything.

It literally provides nothing interesting gameplaywise.

At least back in Season 3 you could argue it did, but the introduction of trinkets in S4 made Sightstone all but utterly redundant. you have to pay 800g and give up an item slot for an item that does what the trinkets you get at level 1 conveniently don't do as well. Why? Its literally just a safety net for Riot so they don't have to actually properly balance vision and it is holding 1 role back because of it and unfortunately it happened to be the Support role.

Riot has gone on record several times stating that warding should be a team effort and that trinkets were in part created to make the vision game more team centric and more fun and easy, and yet I Sightstone still exists?

Don't get me wrong. I build Sightstone every game when i play support and regularly and consistently chastize players who dont because we always lose because of it, but that just goes to show that the item is an issue. it is more all encompassing than Arguably Aegis' Aura or even Runic Bulwark was.

It is an item that will literally lose you games if you dont get it.

Glory ln Death1 votes

So, like I said in my post - make it so it isn't mandatory.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Glory ln Death,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KPPcAhXT,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-12-22T06:31:04.507+0000)

So, like I said in my post - make it so it isn't mandatory.

you can't. you dont get it do u?

Nothing in the game is actually forcing anyone to get the item. What makes it mandatory is its mere existence. The vision it provides is so powerful that teams of even weaker caliber that have it can beat teams that are better than them if the better team doesnt get it. Not taking the item is asking to lose because vision OP.

There is absolutely zero way to balance the item to make it not mandatory and still worth getting, 0.

it will either not give enough vision and thus be the shittiest item in the history of the game even worse than item 3056 or give enough that it matters and thus the team that doesn't have one loses and be mandatory every game.

Lulu Sona Nami dont get Sightstone first item because it makes their spells stronger, m8.

Glory ln Death1 votes

Did you even read the post?

Here's a summary for you - Sightstone no longer gives regular wards. Tier 2 gold items turn your trinket into Sightstone, instead, and Tier 3 gold items have Duskblade's "Blackout" passive for clearing wards. Sightstone has one charge that lets you place a control ward. It would basically become a late game item for people who really want to place control wards but still want some stats from the slot.

Gold gen items are already mandatory, but you actually want those because they're decent. So attach the mandatory part of Sightstone to the gold gen items.

Before you go off on random rants, actually read what people write.

notice me Sin pi1 votes

so TL;DR (correct me if im wrong):

  1. item 3340 can be upgraded into item 3361 upon getting item 3098 , item 3097 , or item 3096
  2. item 2049 Active: uses up a charge and places a ward. Changed from 3 charges of stealth ward >> 1 charge of item 2055
  3. item 3092 item 3401 item 3069 item 2301 item 2303 item 2302 new passive: Blackout - When spotted by an enemy ward, causes a blackout for 8 seconds, disabling all nearby enemy wards and traps (90 second cooldown)
  4. item 2301 item 2303 item 2302 Active: uses up a charge and places a ward. Changed from 4 charges of stealth ward >> 2 charge of item 2055
Glory ln Death1 votes

Pretty much. Not sure on giving 2 charges of Control Wards, but that's the general idea. Basically trying to make Sightstone as an item no longer mandatory, since it kind of sucks.

Stormshadow35031 votes

Interesting idea. However, by making sight stone less important (overall), it makes people feel like vision is irrelevant, and further discourages other roles from warding(unless they're in diamond or something). This idea would give supports far too few wards. Vision is undeniably an essential part of the game, and this idea would be stepping away from that concept. Instead, Riot should be encouraging players (other than supports) to ward.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

All you have to do to encourage players other than supports to ward is this.

Every time a ward spots a unique enemy champion, gain 15 gold, 10s ICD.

Glory ln Death1 votes

Supports would have the same number of wards as they currently do - Sightstone's wards would just be put on a trinket instead of the Sightstone item.

Even if it did reduce the number of wards supports had, that would not make vision "feel irrelevant". Vision's power isn't linked to an item's importance. In fact, if there is less vision on the map, it makes vision feel more important, because you don't have it. If the support is unable to provide as much vision, other players will be more likely to ward in order to get vision.

Look what happened when they introduced trinkets and made the ward limit - other roles may not place tons of wards, but they still place some, where before trinkets they pretty much never bought wards. When the support is more limited in warding and other roles are given options, the other roles step up.

Honestly, that would be the best thing to do - further reduce the wards available to supports (without forcing them to purchase a terrible, mandatory item like Sightstone) and increase the wards for other roles/give other roles more ways to provide vision.

SchmidttyGames1 votes

As a Support main, I can only offer the following:

Instead of only having the item 2045 and Gold Combination items to build into, give it two others akin to the way the Gold Combination items build. The Ruby SS gives health. Buff it to also give a small amount of defenses Armor/MR. Create a Green (Emerald or something) that gives bonus Heal and Shields/CDR + Health. Create a Blue one that gives bonus Mana/AP + Health.

With better options to build into, it would become less worthless overall. But Vision Control is important. Remember that better information makes for better decisions, and this is why Vision is vital to a good team.

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