What if Illaoi was AP?

ForgottenStone·Mar 16, 2018·14 votes·3,379 views

What if Illaoi scaled off AP and dealt magic damage how strong would she be?

I mean thematically she seems pretty magical like some sort of sorceress/priestess summoning magical tentacles. So it’s interesting Riot went with a full AD bruiser instead of a mage.

Not a serious proposal but I’m just curious with a kit like Illaoi’s how well would AP itemization go?

Of course if she were ap her ratios would have to be increased to compensate probably a 33% increase would be needed so if her tentacle had an 120% AD ratio it would instead be an 180% AP ratio and deal magic damage.

54 Comments

AFilthyCaitMainMar 16, 201813 votes

Illaoi is AD to make the statement her god is real and not something summoned by magic, but of its own accord

ZackTheWaffleManMar 16, 20184 votes

Excellent explanation.

Pale PirateMar 16, 20181 votes

Wait a sec.

What if Illaoi's God is all a fake?

She could really just be a fake using magic. Maybe she is carrying a magical relic and she isn't even aware of it. It could summon the attacks of a void monster. That could explain the psychical aspect of the attacks.

5000000000000000Mar 16, 20181 votes

It's pretty much confirmed that's not the case, but if Riot had decided to take Nagakuboros in the direction of "we can't really know if it's real," then perhaps she would have been a mid range battlemage instead.

InfernapeMar 16, 20184 votes

Liandry's would be downright disgusting. The more she slaps you, the more damage she deals.

ZaneShadowMar 16, 20183 votes

Play Mordekaiser for that. It’s not a 1:1 ratio, but you’ll get the feeling your describing. I think that’s what they tried to go for with his kit though with no where near the same success. Ap Illaoi could be fun, though the items wouldn’t support it very well (hence why Morde is a garbage fire unless your a one trick diety). Higher burst, more reliance on her tentacles, but they do more. Kinda a fun concept. I think Rylize would be crucial since it’d help guarantee tentacle hits. Some people actually use Frozen Mallet as she is for that reason. I don’t know.

It’d be fun if some game mode came out where all instances of Ad and AP got switched, so champs play completely different. You could see some funny stuff happening I bet, and I think AP Illaoi would be one. (That and AP jhin since he multiplies it with his passive. With a death cap he’d probably have like 2,000 ap in a normal build)

DragonSheaMar 16, 20182 votes

some champs that use magic somehow deal physical damage in spite of it. Riot need to explain this game/story segregation.

ViciousSummonerMar 16, 20181 votes

It's like getting hit with a water balloon. Doesn't hurt. But now freeze it. Condense it into a stronger state. Hurts more doesn't it?

kargishMar 16, 20182 votes

Ziggs mage.

Chembaron YamadaMar 16, 201810 votes

Makes sense, tho. His bombs are called hexplosives and are based on hextech, which is inherently magical.

kargishMar 16, 20182 votes

But I mean it's still an explosion. Seems pretty physical to me.

DMate19Mar 16, 20181 votes

But more magic = more powerful magic bombs = more damage

More physical = no change to magical bombs = no extra damage

kargishMar 16, 20181 votes

But the damage should still be physical even if you empower it with magic

5000000000000000Mar 16, 20181 votes

You mean like Taliyah? Seriously though, imagine Taliyah using Black Cleaver.

kargishMar 16, 20182 votes

Nidalee how about explaining her then?

DMate19Mar 16, 20182 votes

I feel like your entirely missing the logic behind this. The move isn't what is actually hurting the enemy, it is how it gets stronger. Adding AD makes no sense a bomb throwing Mage because AD would essentially be making him throw the bomb faster, because he holds the AD item, not the bomb itself. It's not that "oh, a bomb touched it, that's physical and thus ad". Unless the bomb itself somehow has a black cleaver on it and throws it at the enemy on explosion, it doesn't work. AP works though, by making a bigger, stronger, more powerful bomb.

The same logic applies to the Nidalee and Taliyah argument. Taliyah is AP because she is magically throwing rocks at the enemy. More AP = stronger force to throw and larger rocks. Adding AD wouldn't add a cleaver to each of the rocks, it would give taliyah herself a black cleaver. Nidalee is somewhat of an expection and tbf could have gone with AD or AP, but AP still makes sense. She is empowering her spears when she uses AP, making them magically stronger. Building AD would make her physically stronger, and make her auto attacks do more, but her q is an empowered spear. She is also magically transforming, so having stronger claws with a more powerful shape change makes sense too.

kargishMar 16, 20181 votes

I actually think it's you who don't understand the concept. I get that getting stronger magic makes the spells hurt more, but it doesn't change the fact that it's physical. No matter how hard you tear up a rock and throw it at someone, getting that rock smacked in the face is physical, even if the spell that throws it becomes more powerful with AP. Same with the bombs, they might get stronger with magic but the explosion is very much physical.

Also getting clawed by a cat is as far away from magic as we can get.

DMate19Mar 17, 20182 votes

Yes, the rock hitting them is in fact physical, but we're not arguing that. We're saying wether the champion should be AD or AP. yes, getting hit in the face with a rock is physical, but how would making the Mage who controls rock physically more powerful going to make the rocks any stronger? And considering that I literally have riot in my side, you are the mistaken one

As well I would say that More of her kit and lore fit with AP and it was made that way for consistency so she wouldn't be forced to build some wierd mix of Ad and AP, which is why the claws are AP.

Chembaron YamadaMar 17, 20181 votes

With your logic, literally everything in the game has to be physical. Because you apply real world science to these concepts.

Annie is summoning flames to burn you? Physical. Nami throwing water at you with magic? Physical.

If all that stuff is physical for you, then we gotta ask what would qualify as magic in your opinion? Because I can always grab a real life explanation to declare it as a physical concept.

kargishMar 17, 20181 votes

Well yeah, thought that was what we're memeing about here. Except conjuered flames and water I'd count as magical. It's mana infused and not technically a physical component. Conjuered materials I consider to be magical, but in the case of Taliyah she just tears up stones and throw them at people. Stuff like Kayle's divine flames or Ekko's time magic I also consider to be a form of magic damage.

Chembaron YamadaMar 17, 20181 votes

Technically, a flame is just gas molecules accelerated by energy to oscillate faster. You are basically just adding energy in a magical way to make molecules move the way you want them to.

No difference to adding magic energy to stones to accelerate them to throw them at enemies.

That's what I mean. If you have the physical knowledge, then even conjuring flames is basically the same like Taliyah throwing a rock, which you don't consider being magical. Therefore, conjuring flames is not magical either.

kargishMar 18, 20181 votes

I had that concept in mind as well, but I figured that the flames are not actually flames, but rather manainfused conjuration. But at the same time flames are not truly physical. You can't exactly hold a piece of fire can you?

IfnethMar 17, 20181 votes

Taliyah main, here. I’ve thought about that. It makes no sense that my rocks do magical damage. That said, since the rocks are powered by magic, they should scale with my Ability Power, and if Riot has the gameplay rule that damage type matches scaling, then they should deal magic damage.

SanKakUMar 16, 20181 votes

Him scaling with AP is not strange, but it would be cool IMO if his stuff did largely physical damage. Maybe a little tricky for players to play around that are new to him, but still. Maybe he should get the Katarina treatment and scale with both.

SooFr0styMar 16, 20183 votes

Pantheon shield bash

5000000000000000Mar 16, 20182 votes

Katarina daggers

If a shadow can do physical damage, no reason why Katarina daggers should be magic damage

KídáMar 17, 20182 votes

MissFortune Make it rain (E), deals with magic damage and scales with AP even though you're getting hit with bullets

5000000000000000Mar 17, 20181 votes

It's magical how she can shoot so accurately when she's shooting pretty much straight up.

ZéychinMar 16, 20182 votes

Illaoi's base stats and damages would have to be buffed so hard both because of her extreme reliance on at least two of these items: Black Cleaver/Sterak's Gage/Death's Dance/Trinity Force and because magic damage falls of so quickly right now if this change were to happen. Even then, it sounds like just a shitty version of Maokai without hard CC. You do magic damage, are forced to build tanky because your damage falls off, and you have sustain built into your kit, but you don't have hard CC. Sure, building Rylai's would be a lot more viable than it is currently, but it really wouldn't help her enough to push her into viability.

Illaoi would get behind more often than not due to easily-counterbuilt/counterplayable damage, would offer no CC to the team, would still have trouble getting into the fights as she does now unless the enemy team drastically mispositions their carries, would lack defenses, and would generally be a liability for her team in the majority of cases. This would put her in pre-rework Evelynn-tier, where picking her was widely considered actively trolling.

Illaoi isn't exactly top-performing as it is due to no best keystone option (though patch 8.6 may change this) and making her a magic damage dealer would only worsen her problems.

You do not live as Nagakabouros intends, -Illaominati

3TWarriorMar 16, 20182 votes

well, she is the chosen champion/priestess of her god and all of that god's influencing attacks around her are physical

Lord of MathMar 16, 20181 votes

Well at most she would be mixed damage. For real, listen to her line when you select her: "Broken bones teach better lessons"

SangreDeNocheMar 17, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord of Math,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KA6PmBg4,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-16T05:56:19.034+0000)

Well at most she would be mixed damage. For real, listen to her line when you select her: "Broken bones teach better lessons"

Because swatting enemies like flies with giant magical tentacles could NEVER break bones...

Lord of MathMar 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Because swatting enemies like flies with giant magical tentacles could NEVER break bones...

I just meant that her mentality is that way, also look at her lines towards Gangplank I think it was, she said she did not stick around because she would break him. She is a very physical person rather than magical, so she would have to deal mixed damage. I always thought of her AD as her faith, for she is a Priestess and not the deity. More faith means more damage, idk.

SangreDeNocheMar 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord of Math,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KA6PmBg4,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-17T05:37:58.484+0000) she is a Priestess and not the deity. More faith means more damage, idk.

Last I checked priestess = magic

Lord of MathMar 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Last I checked priestess = magic

priest=religion not magic. dang it I cannot talk about religion on here can I? Magic is fake, religion is believed to be real. Therefore they are not the same.

SangreDeNocheMar 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord of Math,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KA6PmBg4,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-17T06:28:51.369+0000)

priest=religion not magic. dang it I cannot talk about religion on here can I? Magic is fake, religion is believed to be real. Therefore they are not the same.

Many people believe magic is real therefore they are the same.

5000000000000000Mar 17, 20181 votes

In Runeterra they're both real though. How they are in our world doesn't really matter. Illaoi serves a god that does exist and manifests itself, and magic does stuff too.

iPooUnicornsMar 16, 20181 votes

Wouldn't solve her problem of having no way getting into a fight and having 0 CC.

BârdMar 16, 20181 votes

item 3116 would be absolutely disgusting.

Linna ExcelMar 16, 20181 votes

Part of me says she'd want item 3116 item 3151 for her tentacles and the other part of me wants to say she'd want item 3100 for her punch attack.

Hollow MiraclesMar 16, 20181 votes

She's a melee champ who's main role in fights is to sit on top of as many as people as possible, with strong AOE damage and a lot of sustain. If she were AP then she wouldn't really be able to do that. She'd do a hell of a lot of damage but with no CC she wouldn't be able to catch people out or hard-engage fights. Consider someone like Diana, a melee mage that also throws herself into fights. Unlike Illaoi she has two dashes, allowing her to quickly jump out of the middle of a fight and onto the backline. If Illaoi were AP, she'd be a magic nuke in the most literal sense: throw herself into team fight, deal a truckload of damage to everyone in ult + initial slam range (imagine those sweet 900 AP Illaoi AOE one-shots), then die instantly. Very similar to something like full AP Amumu but without the good engage.

DeathBurstMar 16, 20181 votes

AP itemisation probably wouldn't feel great for Illaoi, because there aren't a lot of mixed offensive/defensive items like Black Cleaver, Sterak, Death's Dance, which are all core on her.

Yes, Liandry and Rylai and Protobelt do have HP, but among them, only Protobelt has CDR, and only 10% at that. So what item should AP Illaoi build first? She has no good solution.

Bob the ToastrMar 16, 20181 votes

Interesting idea lorewise but some of her best synergies are with AD items: item 3812 item 3053 item 3071

LordGeovanniMar 16, 20181 votes

oh she'd have at least 2 times her scaling and much more base defenses because she has to 'play around her tentecles' and wont build defensive items that is just what riots stance would be

Idk why illaoi's scaling would need to be increased considering that most ap items have 80-100% more damage stats than the ad items illaoi builds.

deadlychuckMar 16, 20181 votes

Probably much worse. The fact of the matter is that every AD caster design Renekton Zed Kayn Riven Yorick exc would be substantially weaker if they were made AP without also gaining somewhere between 2-3 mechanics in their kit.

Increasing their scaling would help buffer that, but then you'd just run into an issue of them ignoring all defensive mechanics to burst targets down.

ForgottenStoneMar 16, 20181 votes

Seems like AP itemization currently sucks :(

Also for fun what if Illaoi has hybrid scaling and dealt mixed damage?

Like her tentacle instead of dealing 120% AD scaling physical damage it gets 60%Ad 90% AP scaling