he has high mana cost, cough 
he doesn't have disengage if he goes in, cough 
he can't lane,he can't clear quickly the jungle in early game making him terrible in the early lvl.
he needs at least an item (or 2) _cough _ 
his base stats make him truly squshy and,he cant' do damage if goes tank, cough
actually counters him, _cough _ 
Ralanr4 votesIsn't his early game ganks one of the strongest in the game?
I know it isn't the strongest, but it's up there.
ACENOX4 votesIsn't his early game ganks one of the strongest in the game?
I know it isn't the strongest, but it's up there.
some champs can even kill him 2v1, like 
. and how is his gank the strongest? he doesn't have a hard cc, you gotta be retarded to be feared by his boxe, his slow is 10% at lvl 1.
Ralanr2 votesI said ONE of. Pantheon probably has a stronger gank.
His early ganks are strong (especially in top) because he can go in without people seeing him since the top laner can't afford a vision ward early in top.
ACENOX4 votesdoesn't matter if you see him or not, you have 80% of the champ that can escape his gank so easily, you either dash, or speed because his slow is bad, or you are too tanky, if you are a mage lvl 6 you can even try to kill him.
Ralanr3 votesIs this assuming your laner isn't helping you?
ACENOX3 votesyes, we have to compare what junglers bring alone to secure the kill.
Ralanr4 votesI think giving Shaco lone kill secure very early in the game would make him very oppressive actually.
ACENOX2 votesdidn't say that you need to give him one, just pointing out that he is terrible compared to every nowday assassins that have good laning phase, good damage, good tankiness (at least they aren't two shote), and good escape when they killed someone.
Ralanr2 votesWell Shaco is mainly a jungler so his laning phase isn't that great. His ult is great for emergency escapes, and he has good damage when positioned well (back stab).
ACENOX2 voteshis laning phase isn't great, his jungling is also terrible, his boxe get oneshot by an epic monster for info.
Ralanr1 votesThat's why he places 2 of them and back stabs the creature.
Ahristocats1 votesThat's why he places 2 of them and back stabs the creature.
which makes the jungle slower.
Frost Hellfire4 votesWhy did you have to reveal our secrets?
ff4sk4 votesWell riot likes the champions you mentioned but hate the fuck out of shaco.
He won't be getting any buffs for a LONG time
Rockman3 votesAnybody that wants Shaco buffs needs to get stuck against a good Shaco player every ranked game until they learn what true horror is.
ACENOX3 votesAnybody that wants Shaco buffs needs to get stuck against a good Shaco player every ranked game until they learn what true horror is.
like any champ played by their main?
Rockman2 voteslike any champ played by their main?
Ahristocats1 votesworkshop shaco asked riot for a rework 6 months ago because the champ just suck.
Rockman2 votes[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Jd28VYEe,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2016-05-27T21:15:24.399+0000)
workshop shaco asked riot for a rework 6 months ago because the champ just suck.
I think he should be reworked just because he's old as fuck. Not because he's weak.
KONO RUBICK DA1 votesI think he should be reworked just because he's old as fuck. Not because he's weak.
if he wasn't weak,a shaco main wouldn't ask a rework, since shaco is one or "the funniest" champ in league, you would have no reason to rework him.
Zitoshi2 votesAre trying to compare Shaco to Zed/Fizz/Ekko/Ahri?!?!?!
Best princess EU5 votesAre trying to compare Shaco to Zed/Fizz/Ekko/Ahri?!?!?!
makes sens since they are the current assassins played?
L Psy Kongroo2 voteshe can't lane,he can't clear quickly the jungle in early game making him terrible in the early lvl.
Agree with everything except this part. Shaco has the fastest first clear in the entire game, with the possible exception of Nunu. He also has one of the healthiest, since his boxes tank camps for you. If I don't want to invade the enemy jungler, I can clear every single camp in my jungle before 3 minutes and still have 90% of my health remaining. Then once you get Tiamat, your mid-game clear is incredibly fast as well.
As for laning, AP Shaco top is still a thing. I'm sure everyone knows about Pink Ward, so I won't go into details, but AP Shaco can still perform decently well as a top laner and as a niche support pick.
ACENOX3 votesi'm talking after the frst 3 lvl. Shaco has a lot of trouble and it takes a lot of mana your blue buff will disappear. Unlike any jungler who can clear simply the jungle after the first 3 lvl, shaco can't because he needs the red+blue buff, and he needs to stack boxes liike at lvl 1.
and btw liike i said, his boxe can tank 1 hit from red/blue buff, and 2 hit from an epic monster
J E B A ł T E D1 voteslol that last one got me
ShinkoMinori1 votesI dont like shaco I am happy he not being picked at all
ACENOX4 votesbe happy that zed is picked then, he is x500 les then toxic
oh wait
ShinkoMinori1 votesIs shaco TAPS still viable?
Anu3isII1 votesHow he can't clear quickly in the jungle in the EARLY GAME? He is the most notorious counter jungler in the game , because he doesn't need smite for his first jungle buff...
Best princess EU1 votesi'm talking after the frst 3 lvl. Shaco has a lot of trouble and it takes a lot of mana your blue buff will disappear. Unlike any jungler who can clear simply the jungle after the first 3 lvl, shaco can't because he needs the red+blue buff, and he needs to stack boxes liike at lvl 1.
and btw liike i said, his boxe can tank 1 hit from red/blue buff, and 2 hit from an epic monster
Anu3isII1 votesYou may think he is right, but every good Shaco would tank for the box and when it is about to die, they let it tank the 1-2 hits...
And another thing is that Shaco has trouble clearing only when he doesn't get kills. I have seen many Shaco players buying Tiamat both for the jungle monsters and for burst when he ganks, and because of their early kills, they get it pretty fast.
This may sound mean, even if I don't want to be like that, but I doubt that the one who made this thread watched the REAL Shaco mains like Shaclone as a jungler and Pink Ward as the AP Shaco in a solo lane. A bad Shaco looks as weak as the OP described, but a good Shaco is more terrifying than a fed Rengar...
