Fervor of battle is a REALLY, REALLY shitty mastery when compared to its counterparts in that tree

Totalis·Nov 10, 2015·8 votes·28,937 views

Think about, who's going to be speccing 18 points into the ferocity tree? these are your adc's, assassins, fighters, and mages.

Adc's, Yasuo, and Tryn are going warlord's bloodlust. duh.

Mages are getting deathfire touch.

Where does that leave the ad assassins and fighters? The only keystone in this tree that even somewhat works for them is Fervor of Battle, which does "basic attacks and spells give you stacks of Fervor for 5 seconds, stacking 10 times. Each stack of Fervor adds 1-8 bonus physical damage to your basic attacks against champions, based on your level."

This is so weak compared to the other two, ESPECIALLY warlords. the only fighter that's gonna be using this mastery really well is riven. And we all LOVE riven right? Luckily we're in preseason, cause this mastery either needs to get buffed or changed into something that the classes that aren't mages or crit-based can use effectively.

50 Comments

VerxintNov 10, 20156 votes

Assassins shouldn't be going 18 down ferocity. That is, true assassins, not this thing Riot does where melee carries are also assassins.

Stormraider's Surge: Dealing 30% of a champion's maximum health within 2 seconds grants you 35% bonus movement speed for 3 seconds

This thing is amazing on Talon, Kha'Zix, Rengar, Zed, etc.

And fervor is gonna be shit on Riven because it's not AD, its on-hit damage.

Fervor in battle is for autoattackers that aren't as interested in crit and either build offensive bruiser and want to hurt more when they get in range, or get high aspd and do lots of DPS: Ezreal Gnar Irelia Jax KogMaw MasterYi Nocturne Renekton Shyvana Udyr Warwick MonkeyKing XinZhao Some of these will also be great with Strength of the Ages or Grasp of the Undying if they choose Resolve, but if they go Ferocity, Fervor In Battle will likely be their choice.

The mastery is also going to be standard on any devourer jungler. A sated proc with this mastery will do 160 bonus phys damage and 120 bonus magic damage.

A Yi double strike sated proc with this mastery would do 240 phys damage, 180 magic damage, and 90+60% of his AD as true damage, on top of the regular damage from the autoattack itself.

tl;dr this mastery is amazing.

clickheadSep 12, 20161 votes

You forgot Aatrox. Everyone forgets Aatrox. It is an amazing mastery on Aatrox

Asayake 5150glowNov 10, 20152 votes

No one else noticed this? The blue tree is for Assassins. The flat armor/mr pen is much more effective than the percentage armor/mr pen. If you wanna go assassin, put your points into blue. (you're remaining go into red, however)

EDIT: Lol, the person right above me said the same thing xD

Aatrox You forgot him );

TotalisNov 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=da plazma pika,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JaMtWd2h,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-11-10T21:32:50.358+0000)

No one else noticed this? The blue tree is for Assassins. The flat armor/mr pen is much more effective than the percentage armor/mr pen. If you wanna go assassin, put your points into blue. (you're remaining go into red, however)

plz, do go ahead and put 18 into cunning. see how well that goes for you.

Asayake 5150glowNov 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

plz, do go ahead and put 18 into cunning. see how well that goes for you.

I am going to. I don't have my computer yet though );

TotalisNov 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=da plazma pika,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JaMtWd2h,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-11-11T01:45:31.920+0000)

I am going to. I don't have my computer yet though );

i tried

Asayake 5150glowNov 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

i tried

I'll see for myself. Did you do the right path? (helps if you are also jungling)

TrakzzNov 11, 20151 votes

You need to have failed elementary arithmetic if you honestly think the majority of assassins aren't going to be going 18 into cunning for Thunderlord's.

VasilisGreenNov 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

plz, do go ahead and put 18 into cunning. see how well that goes for you.

Ehm... hm hm... Blue tree is better for assassins. the flat penetration combined with full armor pen reds and quints and a youmu's give you 45 flat pen at lvl10. Get the cleaver right after and you will pretty much do true damage to everyone with less than 80 armor... and guess what, none has more than 60 armor by thetime you get youmu's. None exept the tanks that is, but as an assassin you won't target the tanks.

VasilisGreenNov 10, 20152 votes

What makes you think that Deathfire touch is aimed at mages?? Have you even seen the scaling on that talent??? 50% bonus AD and 20% AP... and imgine how zed easily gets 500 bonus AD late game... That's 250 free magic damage for each spell hit on target... So, ult someone and hit 3 Qs and 2 Es... that's 1250 magic damage for free... You need 1250 AP to get the same damage as a Zed with 613 total AD will from that mastery.... that's more than double his AD in AP... trust me, AD assassins with high AD values like Zed and Talon will benefit far more from that mastery than mages... It is a nice addition to compensate for the loss of armor pen with the changes to last whisper.

VerxintNov 10, 20153 votes

It's a burn, not bonus damage. It's gonna be bad on Assassins, intentionally so, because there isn't enough time for the burn to matter.

They say it in the friggin patch notes people. Ferocity = Sustained Damage. Cunning = Burst.

Thunderlord's Decree would be better on Zed than Deathfire Touch.

SpecterVonBarenNov 10, 20151 votes

A burn with that kind of ratio isn't necessarily bad, think of how Brand works, he's a burst mage yet he has a passive that whittle away at the enemy's health. Yes Deathfire won't add to the burst combo but it can help to finish someone off that managed to get out of your range, especially if you combine it with ignite.

VerxintNov 10, 20151 votes

Brand is a burst mage, but he tends to want to throw a few rounds of spells in.

Zed's burst combo is in less than 3 seconds, that's not much time to let the burn apply.

VasilisGreenNov 10, 20153 votes

i know it is a DoT but it hits hard. Hit 4 spells on them and they take even more damage afterwards. Thunderlords decree does an AoE effect that doesn't even do half as much damage as Deathfire touch. Plus, it has a long cooldown while deathfire touch doesn't. also, with 500 AD late game, hit 2 Qs on a target and 1 E from your combo and the burn will be enough to kill them after 3 seconds. Plus, it adds up to the deathmark as well. Dealing 256 damage burn for each spell and hitting 2 Qs and one E makes a total of 750 free damage. Magic damage. it is a lot of damage, even as a DoT. Think about it, you ult and hit 2 Qs, 1 E and one AA. with 500 bonus damage. Because of the nerf in armor pen, they will have a good amount of effective armor to reduce your damage, and with those 3 spells, you will do 2050 damage, almost instantly and assume it is a kinda tanky bruiser so reduce that by let's say 35%. that is 1332 damage on them. This will deal 750 more magic damage in 3 seconds. Deathmark will also pop after 3 seconds and that means that this magic damage will add to it's pop. so, the deathmark will pop doing 613+(1332+700)/2=1622 damage. reduce it by 15% now because you stacked the cleaver hitting that beefy dude and you have 1378 damage, add that to the previous 1332 to have a total of 2710 damage done by your 3 spells and the ult pop. to that ad that magic damage burn of 750 for a total of 3460 damage and now, add 256 more because deathmark is also a spell that will procc the mastery, to a total of 3716 damage. to that add 475 true damage from your ignite for a new total of 4191 damage dealt. now that kinda tanky target should be dead because being kinda tanky means having 3-3.5k hp and 100-120 armor. Are you convinced yet? [slayer-jinx-wink]

VerxintNov 10, 20152 votes

Where do you get this idea that you apply the burn for each spell?

Zed ults - he has 3 seconds to unload as much damage as possible.

Deathfire Touch burns targets for an amount scaling with AD and AP after they've been hit by a spell

It doesn't stack with spell applications. Hit spell -> apply debuff -> target burns.

Zed does most of his damage in a 3 second period. He doesn't space his spells out. He goes in, uses E+Q, autos some, uses another E, then escapes. Deathfire touch with your 500 bonus AD is about 80 damage a second once applied.

You could have 80 damage a second on someone who realistically won't last more than the next 2.5 seconds. or you could have an extra 180+100 to your burst with Thunderlords, or you can give yourself a 3 second 35% non-decaying movespeed boost with Stormraider's Surge.

That 256 damage per spell you mentioned, that's not per spell. That what you get over 3 seconds. period. You're comparing adding 256 damage to a zed combo to adding 280 AoE damage or 35% movespeed to a Zed combo.

There really isn't any question about it to be honest. Ferocity is not meant for burst damage dealers.

This is why reading comprehension is important, people.

VasilisGreenNov 11, 20152 votes

Every kind of damage, but not true, adds to deathmark. that's exactly why hydra's active and blade's active also add to it. Deathmark takes 3 seconds to pop. Burn takes 3 seconds to do the whole damage. It will tick enough times to add to the deathmark. The mastery says, "Your damaging abilities cause enemy champions to take x damage". thismeans that each time you hit them with an ability the DoT is added. usualy, if an effect doesn't stack, it's description states so. Even if it doesn't stack, it refreshes with each ability hit, which means, with each ability you land on them, the first tick of the damage is also applied. so, if it is to do 300 damage in 3 seconds, then if you hit 3 consecutive spells, you will also deal 1/3 of that damage and refresh it. i could be wrong tho. In any case, it's only 5 hours before the patch is applied, so, we will see in game what works better.

VerxintNov 11, 20152 votes

Actually, the opposite is true, usually something explicitly says that it does stack and indicates a stack cap.

And no, refreshing the duration doesn't work like that. Otherwise it would be literally broken as all shit with Anivia's R or Karthus' E.

I've been playing on the PBE like I do every preseason. I spent 50 minutes in a custom as Anivia exploring the mastery. it had separate ticks that were the same space apart.

And as far as I know, no dot in the game reapplies a tick on refreshing duration. They would be incredibly wonky to balance if that were the case, particularly with this mastery as it would basically be an extra 18% bonus AD ratio on every spell.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I don't think you understand this games mechanics very well. You've managed to be dead wrong on fairly straightforward things.

VasilisGreenNov 11, 20151 votes

maybe

VasilisGreenNov 11, 20151 votes

Well, i tried them both in a custom and i have to admit, you were right about the masteries. and now you also gave me the reason i needed to get that flat pen in the cunning tree!!! ty

Gentleman GannonNov 11, 20151 votes

Thunderlord's Decree has a base damage; Deathfire Touch does not (not really anyway).

Also Zed's abilities, being exclusively AoE, apply Deathfire Touch at half power -- except Death Mark, which should theoretically reapply the touch at full power as expires.

At 500 bonus AD, which is certainly not outside the realm of possibility, Zed's Deathfire Touch will do 128 damage over 1.5 seconds any time he lands a spell, plus an extra 256 after Death Mark ends. Note that DF touch doesn't stack intensity -- it refreshes duration with each hit -- so you can stack up to 256 extra damage on the Death Mark before it explodes as long as you hit them consistently.

Thunderlord's Decree will instead deal 180 + 20% AD, which at +500 AD is 280.

So, yes; at very high AD levels Touch is generally going to be better.

If you bring the build back down to ~3 items and keep level 18, the swing goes more in favor of Decree -- if we halve the bonus AD there, Touch now only deals 64 damage over 1.5 seconds with each application and an additional 128 on Death Mark. Decree, on the other hand, will still deal 230 damage right away, which means you'll get more out of Death Mark.

Tough to say which is truly the superior option but the ult reapplying the touch at the end makes me lean a bit toward Touch.

VasilisGreenNov 11, 20151 votes

Well, first of all, i really think that some comments are missing from this thread. we had that discussion with someone else and, i came to agee with him. Thunderlords decree is the better option because it adds to your burst early and you snowball harder, at least that's what i've seen so far in my games. Late game with very high amounts of AD deathfire touch will do more overall damage but burst is better for zed. Also, the only AoE spell zed has is E. Q is a skill shot. i am not sure tho if it applies half the damage or full. Deathmark tho definitely does fulll damage. But, at lvl18 with 500 bonus AD the decree will still do more damage, 280>256. and if i am right, i think that Q also counts as an AoE, so, it will also do less damage... Well, i am glad i was wrong because i really wanted to play with 18 points in cunning for that sweet armor pen. I rush a youmu's and with 19 pen in runes, i get 45 flat pen @lvl10 and that is practicaly true damage.

StealWolverineNov 11, 20151 votes

Skill shot has nothing to do with determining if a spell is aoe. Zeds a passes through and can hit multiple targets. Therefore it is aoe. This compared to morganas a which stops at the first target hit, which makes it not aoe, and it applies deathfire fully

VasilisGreenNov 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Skill shot has nothing to do with determining if a spell is aoe. Zeds a passes through and can hit multiple targets. Therefore it is aoe. This compared to morganas a which stops at the first target hit, which makes it not aoe, and it applies deathfire fully

Well, that's one more reason not to take deathfire touch on zed...

ArdzivNov 23, 20151 votes

I'm not saying deathfire is better but...

Deathfire isn't as bad as people think for aoe and assasins for that matter.

First of all, in teamfights deathfire generally puts out more damage because it has no cooldown (unless you think you are going to die early on). A team fight will usually end in 30 seconds so you will proc TL only once or twice at most while you will always be proccing deathfire.

As for the aoe, it says it deals half the damage in half the time. So what does this mean? Well, regardless of being aoe or not, it deals the same amount of damage per second. So 300 damage over 3 seconds or 150 damage over 1.5 seconds is still 100 damage per second. So as long as you can keep reappliying deathfire to your opponent you do the same damage aoe or not.

That being said, I think if you are building a lot of AD or AP deathfire is a good option if you benefit more from % arpen/mpen than cdr. On the other hand I like going cunning if I benefit from cdr/cdr cap.

If you are not building much ap (think ryze going tear into catalyst) then TL is definitely better because it has base damage, of course if you are building rabs later on this might not be the case (like anivia for example).

tl;dr deathfire is better than people make it out to be because it always deals the same damage per second (Regardless of aoe) but this does not mean its better than TL. They are both good depending on your item choices and champion.

funny guy1Feb 3, 20161 votes

how do u get 500 bonus ad outta 5 items? plz tell me i want to do tht. i would be happy if u showed me how to do it without getting boots

VasilisGreenFeb 4, 20161 votes

On Zed??? That's easy. item 3142 , item 3071 , item 3153 , item 3072 , item 3139 , no AD in runes, i go full armor pen reds and quints, and i get natural talent in masteries. You get a total of 305 bonus AD from items and the mastery. To that ad the dragon buff and Zed's W passive and... voila, 531 total AD and 418 bonus AD for your Qs. If you are a Hydra guy, i think it will get you to 600 AD, i am not sure, i don't build hydra on zed and i am not sure what your AD will be with it.

Also, since i made this comment, it's been a very long time, i played a lot and, trust me, don't go DFT, Thunderlord's decree is far better on Zed.

Omnem OccidoDec 30, 20152 votes

Assassins should never go 18/12/0. They should only ever go 12/18/0. Thunderlord's Decree... holy shit is it good. More than that, the scaling hybrid penetration from precision is actually better than the AD percent penetration from Battering Blows and the AP percent penetration from Piercing Thoughts for enemies with less than 200 armor/120 magic resist at level 18 (80 Armor/48 Magic Resist at level 1), which is most of the targets you will be going after as an assassin.

Fervor of battle has it's place with on-hit fighters/ADCs. Take Warwick, for instance: his ult applies 5 melee on-hit effects over 1.8 seconds. Due to double the stacks being added for melee attacks, he hits his full Fervor with one Infinite Duress, dealing 169.2 damage over the course of the ult, and increasing his on hit damage to 84.6 damage. For a mastery, that's freaking ridiculous damage.

TotalisDec 30, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Omnem Occido,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JaMtWd2h,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2015-12-30T07:52:54.846+0000)

Assassins should never go 18/12/0. They should only ever go 12/18/0. Thunderlord's Decree... holy shit is it good. More than that, the scaling hybrid penetration from precision is actually better than the AD percent penetration from Battering Blows and the AP percent penetration from Piercing Thoughts for enemies with less than 200 armor/120 magic resist at level 18 (80 Armor/48 Magic Resist at level 1), which is most of the targets you will be going after as an assassin.

Fervor of battle has it's place with on-hit fighters/ADCs. Take Warwick, for instance: his ult applies 5 melee on-hit effects over 1.8 seconds. Due to double the stacks being added for melee attacks, he hits his full Fervor with one Infinite Duress, dealing 169.2 damage over the course of the ult, and increasing his on hit damage to 84.6 damage. For a mastery, that's freaking ridiculous damage.

are you aware this was made two months ago? or are you just that stupid?

SlytherinUmbreonNov 10, 20151 votes

Eh, AD assassins can honestly pick up deathfire. It scales with Bonus AD too, doesn't it? Or did they remove that? There's also a risk that, with all of these items randomly getting crit, Ad assassins might start ending up with high Crit anyway.

StellafreyjaNov 10, 20151 votes

The only AD champion that I can think of that could take Fervor of Battle is maybe Shyvana because she auto attacks for most of her damage but doesn't build crit usually.

masterdragon481Nov 10, 20152 votes

Neither does Jax, this mastery will probably be good on him too. Personally, I don't think warlords is going to exist as it does for a long period of time; or tryndamere and yasuo will get nerfed as a result of this keystone.

funny guy1Feb 3, 20162 votes

i think ww would like it. yi does build crit(warlords) but a off tank sated titanic hydra yi would like it. i dont see why jax wouldnt like it. shyv would for sure. aatrox, kindred, olaf, udyr. and dare i say teemo. yes tht fu@#$%^ can jg effieciently

QuephaFeb 3, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=thedudeman v2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JaMtWd2h,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-02-03T23:47:13.763+0000)

i think ww would like it. yi does build crit(warlords) but a off tank sated titanic hydra yi would like it. i dont see why jax wouldnt like it. shyv would for sure. aatrox, kindred, olaf, udyr. and dare i say teemo. yes tht fu@#$%^ can jg effieciently

Don't rez old threads.

funny guy1Feb 4, 20161 votes

i didnt. it was on the front page -_-. blame someone else

funny guy1Feb 4, 20161 votes

nvm i did. guilty. i knew i didnt dig deep into league forums though. -_-. i was searching for information on fervor of battle. soz. blame google.

TotalisFeb 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Don't rez old threads.

for real right? why am I getting a notification from a thread 3 months ago.. this isnt even relevant anymore......

Zorae42Nov 10, 20151 votes

Kayle KogMaw

Are the ones who will use it.

AnomanderNov 10, 20151 votes

On hit Kog says hello.

SaltyKrackaNov 10, 20151 votes

Ashe

SasogwaNov 11, 20151 votes

Not at all. Fervour of battle is the most broken Keystone mastery. You don't realize how fully stacked it's stupid? 10-80 physical on-hit damage?

YennNov 12, 20151 votes

Yi is literally the only champion who can use it. Everyone else either attacks too slowly or needs the defense masteries for jungle clears.

Omnem OccidoDec 30, 20151 votes

Warwick XinZhao Aatrox

All beg to differ.

AljonauNov 13, 20151 votes

i could see fervor of battle working on satan

Cloak an DaggerNov 13, 20151 votes

Kayle Loves everything about this Keystone mastery. You just have to find it's niche role and apply it. That being said, yes on average it isn't the best general keystone mastery in the ferocity tree by a long shot.

Sir TickleswordNov 13, 20151 votes

Did everyone forget about poppy? Her W passive scales well with fervor of battle since it already grants armor and ad per stack, and stacks at ten. Combine that with the new guinshoo and there's potential. It's about finding what keystone synergizes with what champ, and building accordingly.

I know she is getting reworked, but could be fun to try out.

SleikoNov 22, 20151 votes

Ruunans works with it ;) SO kennen and Kalista can take it :)

And with WW Ulti*

ProtokaiFeb 3, 20161 votes

i think it works great on alot of the onhit champs like. Kayle MasterYi KogMaw XinZhao Kalista

Dominick DestineFeb 4, 20161 votes

Is Warlord's Bloodlust better for Caitlyn ?

Legit question, I use Fervor but Fervor feels like complete garbage.

TotalisFeb 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JaMtWd2h,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2016-02-04T00:18:50.697+0000)

Is Warlord's Bloodlust better for ?

Legit question, I use Fervor but Fervor feels like complete garbage.

warlords is bad, the only one who can use it with success is yasuo. youre fine with fervor