I wish Banner of Command could be switched around so it's not just a Magic-Comp killer

Bodabott·Apr 27, 2018·104 votes·17,625 views

Like wouldn't it be more fair to change its stats so the minion it buffs just takes 50% reduced damage from all sources instead of complete magic immunity?

Make it so you have a way of actually inconveniencing any kind of enemy by buffing a side wave instead of buffing a minion up only to watch a [insert ADC] or [Insert abuser] obliterate the entire thing without a single hassle and continue on roaming casually.

Definitely seems more fair too considering how the item itself is a toxic mechanic that works solely around removing a player's ability to interact with its targets just because they're locked behind magic damage.

39 Comments

MakishiEFBApr 27, 201833 votes

Would definitely open it up for more use, and it even makes better sense for the item considering Riot put armor on it with item 2053 .

Let it just be a dedicated splitting item that EVERYONE has to work a little harder to clear instead of just shafting Magic comps for no legitimate reason at all.

Ok sure but whyApr 27, 201821 votes

{quoted}

Why can't mages kill it with magic damage, but ADC's can kill it with ?

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

But yea, I agree, especially since they're gonna be cucking the Mages' abilities to wave clear

VerxintApr 27, 20187 votes

Banner minion should get extra damage reduction based on your resistances

AquariusGineApr 27, 20186 votes

Riot hate mages.

ResolutionApr 27, 20185 votes

...because ADC's have to be better at everything - can't have them not being able to destroy everything with ease. Sorry magic users, but once again you get the short end of the stick ;).

UltîmaApr 27, 20184 votes

This. Honestly this is just one of the many things that forces the prevalence of ADCs in the game.

The Bearded BardApr 27, 20184 votes

PLEASE. I can't tell you how many times I'm clearing a wave as a mage and then I see that invincible pos waddling down the lane.

They're so smug I hate it

IfnethApr 27, 20184 votes

It just feels bad to have no way to interact with the thing. You need someone with AD to remove it. 50% magic DR would be perfect.

The Yetii RiderApr 28, 20183 votes

50% DR from all sources would be crazy. You realize that other minions and turrets don't deal magic damage, right? Banner is already strong when you use it to shove a side lane, this would make it better than Rift Herald.

ninjaroxasApr 28, 20182 votes

Just make it take 50% less damage from champs? Not exactly a hard solution to think of.

YuGiHoApr 27, 20182 votes

ad champs would still kill it fast because they have the luxury of consistent auto attack damage.

BodabottApr 27, 20185 votes

Least this way they have to hit it a bit more and Magic Users can actually do something about them.

LordGeovanniApr 27, 20181 votes

Magic users can auto attack them. its not supposed to be good for them. Just like item 3151 or item 3071 isnt supposed to be good for tanks

ShroomsAndSpellsApr 27, 20182 votes

Wouldn't that be like making an item that makes it so only spells can hurt the minion?

Makes no sense and is just a toxic mechanic that locks out players from interacting with things at all.

Also item 3194 pretty much makes it so: "What item 3151 ?"

LordGeovanniApr 27, 20181 votes

No its not because everyone has auto attacks while there are some champions with 3 damage spells and 2 more damage passive spells while there are other champions with 1 damage spell and one damage passive and both low damage. Your example would make sense if all champions did the same damage to minions. diffrence is item 3194 has shit stats for its easily counterable passive wait one more second than your cooldown*[zombie-brand-mindblown]* while item 3151 has better stat efficency and its only counter is dont get hit.

5000000000000000Apr 27, 20182 votes

Make a target minion carry a banner that gives baron buff to nearby minions.

It solves magic damage issue, there's clear counterplay, and it removes the baron-banner interaction that's pretty unhealthy.

Eye Of TerrorApr 28, 20182 votes

Whoever designed this item is really biased towards AD.

I mean an item that completely shuts you down because you chose AP is quite unhealthy imo.

Hope it's more ok like that.

TeCoolMageApr 28, 20182 votes

duskblade is probably the worst item for waveclearing ever, even worse than tank items like frozen heart, which will at least give more CDR and let you tank the wave + use more abilities with the mana and armour.

I think banner of command should be used to buff a single minion to be actually powerful in a "commanding" sense (it IS a banner, so maybe it should have some sort of rally or gives the minion an aura), rather than buffing a single minion so it lives while the rest dies while screwing over mages.

LordGeovanniApr 27, 20181 votes

large waves of minions that you can instantly wave clear then the 1-2 minions you can't have to slow push it... so unfair.

ShroomsAndSpellsApr 27, 20187 votes

Ahem-

item 3087

Where is the Adc champ's "slow down?"

LordGeovanniApr 27, 20181 votes

While i agree your example is super bad because Statikk Shiv does magic damage which Means it doesnt effect the banner of command minion.

ShroomsAndSpellsApr 27, 20182 votes

And yet once the shock clears the rest of the minions the adc still 3 shots it with basic crits.

So again, where are their "slow downs?"

LordGeovanniApr 28, 20181 votes

the slow down is where the shock doesnt killed it what would have happened immediately now takes 3 shots. Its not much but thats because of adcs damage being busted not because it doesnt slow them down.

sho ayaneApr 28, 20181 votes

After the nerf, shiv probably can't clear the wave that quickly anyway....

VoraciousXApr 27, 20188 votes

{quoted}

While i agree your example is super bad because Statikk Shiv does magic damage which Means it doesnt effect the banner of command minion.

Except it gives ADCs more crit chance and attack speed, which still helps them kill it faster.

Banner honestly is more used for taking first turret honestly. It's better than setting a ZZrot in your lane and having it try to take turrets(it's a lot faster actually, I tested both). While magic damage does suffer from it, I honestly like having it in OFA when I'm forced to play something I don't want to play(usually by a group) for quick ends. I mean it is going to be a problem for a full AP comp, yes, but there are other things that prevent full AP comps in the first place.

{quoted}

diffrence is has shit stats for its easily counterable passive wait one more second than your cooldown*[zombie-brand-mindblown]* while has better stat efficency and its only counter is dont get hit.

Tell that to Katarina, who's entire damage is based on her passive, and is an assassin, meant to use all her damage at once.

LordGeovanniApr 28, 20181 votes

It helps adcs kill the minion faster but slower than just having the shiv crit the wave. Thus although faster than without the shiv still slower than if the shiv effected it. Most champions are designed to use their skills at once Thus the Holding of the spell is skill expression aka playing around the counter. This is outside of me thinking that Katarina's passive isnt balanced at all a champions should not get a full reset on abilities from level 1 for kills or assists maybe partial resets for kills thus you would actually have to land the killing blow to continue ripping through things.

VoraciousXApr 28, 20182 votes

{quoted}

It helps adcs kill the minion faster but slower than just having the shiv crit the wave. Thus although faster than without the shiv still slower than if the shiv effected it. Most champions are designed to use their skills at once Thus the Holding of the spell is skill expression aka playing around the counter. This is outside of me thinking that Katarina's passive isnt balanced at all a champions should not get a full reset on abilities from level 1 for kills or assists maybe partial resets for kills thus you would actually have to land the killing blow to continue ripping through things.

It's 15 seconds. It resets her basic abilities, her ultimate still takes a while to reset. And that's not the passive I'm talking about. Adaptive Helm wouldn't cuck that. It's her dagger drops. They count as her passive and are one collective type of damage, which makes Adaptive Helm work against all of her combo, outside of her Q's hit on champions. Her passive and ult are both affected by this item which makes her entire damage useless vs it when it's meant for sustained damage dealing magic users.

LordGeovanniApr 29, 20181 votes

Once again space the damage. But in cases like katarina how her damage is so big and it resets so often its better to ignore that item 3194 has that passive because you will be out damageing it anyway because 1 Tanks and bruisers shouldnt even be your main targets and 2 you still burst large chunks of their hp and shred them when you kill their allies and reset as if that was ever hard

VoraciousXApr 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Once again space the damage. But in cases like katarina how her damage is so big and it resets so often its better to ignore that has that passive because you will be out damageing it anyway because 1 Tanks and bruisers shouldnt even be your main targets and 2 you still burst large chunks of their hp and shred them when you kill their allies and reset as if that was ever hard

Trust me that's not true. Let's assume Kat has 300 AP. Gonna assume both are level 14 with 3 items, one champion being Nasus the other being Katarina. Nasus with Adaptive Helm + Merc Treads(ignored TF because it has no defenses), Kat with gunblade sorc shoes and rabadons(only way I could get close to 300 AP). Nasus takes 56% reduced damage from magic, plus an additional 20%. So the 56% reduced damage means her combo will do 1831 instead of 3270 JUST from the MR. Still a lot of damage obviously, but we haven't factored in the additional 20% damage reduction from her combos. Q will deal 159.6 damage, first E will deal 84 damage, first passive proc will deal 324.8, second E will deal 67.2, second passive proc will deal 259.84, third E will also deal 67.2, and ult will deal 389.0432. and this is if Nasus DIDN'T ult. Do you see how much damage Adaptive Helm reduces(and I did count the initial damage of the first dagger thrown for full damage btw, every one after that gets reduced by 20%). So her full combo will deal 1351.6832 damage to Nasus, ASSUMING HE DIDN'T ULT. Nasus has 2357 health at level 14 with no grasp/overgrowth and only adaptive helm and merc treads as defensive items. He still has 1k health left after that. Yes, you're supposed to kill squishies, but he's a juggernaut, and you can't always get to a squishy and if you're fighting him with other people, the other people you're fighting him with have to deal 1k damage extra IF HE DIDN'T ULT AND ONLY IF HE HAS ONE DEFENSIVE ITEM(2 if you count merc treads). His ult reduces his magic damage by an extra 6% just from initial cast and up to 10%. I don't feel like doing the math because I'd have to go back to the beginning to do it right, but adaptive helm RUINS Katarina(her ultimate particularly). Yes, I may be able to kill their allies, but that Nasus is gonna be 2 shotting me while me and 4 others are trying to take him down, because Katarina can't do any meaningful damage to him fast enough, especially considering Adaptive Helm makes Katarina's ultimate basically useless. It almost does LESS THAN HER PASSIVE AGAINST THAT ITEM. Yeah, you should be killing squishies as a Kat, but that's not always possible, and sometimes you and others have to go 2-3v1 against a tanky champion. Except if that tank has Adaptive Helm you can't even break their defenses. And you can't space your ultimate damage, and 4 seconds is an extremely long time to wait between attacks.

BestPudgeNAApr 27, 20181 votes

summoner 11

SilverjustApr 28, 20181 votes

what if instead of making the targeted minion magic imune, they get 6(or more) ward health. It would make the cleartime more similar than it is right now

AR URFApr 28, 20181 votes

I actually agree with this thread. Most cases it's just whining children, but you put up a good point. How about make it immune to certain types of cc though like syndra's grab thing?

LibroMastroApr 28, 20181 votes

yea lets make singed even more annoying

ElohavenApr 28, 20181 votes

I would if it wasn't for the fact Baron is so easy to kill at 20 minutes with 2 people.

I can't support this if Baron is that easy.

SaiannaApr 28, 20181 votes

change its stats so the minion it buffs just takes 50% reduced damage from all sources

ADCs would still 1-hit kill it...

McsquzzyApr 28, 20181 votes

can't do anything to hurt adc or assassins we currently buffing them silly

I Main SwainApr 28, 20181 votes

the more i think about this the more i like the idea

Supreme Senpai69Apr 29, 20181 votes

I don't really understand this either to be honest. Split pushers are all AD. It's an older item so I get back then you chose a mage because mages were the ones who could waveclear. But... that's not really the case anymore. You could put this item mid lane and then siege mid, but now it's something you put top while you siege bot. Well, the one going to clear that is gonna be an AD split pusher.