Look, I know I'm not the best adc, but if you play support with me and don't have a relic shield or it's passive is not up, don't actively last hit, and if I can get the kill, don't take it!
I'm sorry, but every time I've had to play adc as of late, my support is also a factor to my failure and kinda salty about it, especially when I have more assists then the support
Alutrosity6 votesIf you ks your adc knowing they were able to take the kill, then you are a bad support, plain and simple.
Supports job is to secure kills and protect the adc. The only time it's okay to kill steal as support is if you genuinely believe the ADC is going to die if you don't land that finishing blow.
Sightless666 votesI think taking even the smallest risk to try to pass a kill to the ADC isn't worth it. I've seen way too many times where supports try to give up kills and the enemy ends up escaping. I only do it when there is literally no conceivable possibility where the enemy could escape under any circumstances, and I don't find that to be a common situation.
I find myself passing kills over probably once every 3-4 games. I used to do it more, but it just screwed me too often.
Spoofghoul3 votesthis^
a kill is a kill, while the gold bounty is nice especially on gold dependant role like adc an assisst is still better then no kill, especially if you already used summoners.
after the kill you migh also get an objective off of it so when you gamble on giving up that kill remember, you gamble on having wasted your summoners and an objective to boot.
its not worth trying to hand the kills over unless they really cant go anywhere and its 100% secured anyways.
The Last Ballad1 votesI operate under the statement of "I have rejected the notions of “killstealing” a kill during the laning phase. I damage the enemy laner until they die, regardless of who gets the kill credit. That being said, I attempt to give my ADC the kill credit whenever possible."
It works so much better, since the adc can still farm even if they didn't get the kill, whereas the enemy adc can't since they are dead. Though it is terrible when you get a kill using Nami's bubble or Tahm's tongue lash trying to cc the enemy until the adc can catch up to kill them. If you only try to get a kill to save the adc, then so many of your enemies are going to slip away because you could of killed them, and you decided to wait to see if the adc would(or if they are out of range).
The quote is from reddit's summoner school, specifically the support checklist.
xWaters5 votesThe whole issue with KSing is that since we are solo and not communicating with anybody over voice chat, the support may not know if your going to flash for that auto, dive, or be able to even get the kill. I play Lulu support. Her Q has a decent range. I can't tell you how many times I've glitterlanced them in fear of them getting away only for the ADC to waste their flash and still not get the kill. Kinda sucks cause it's not like I do it purposefully yet the ADC will most likely get pissed.
The Aqualious1 votesI play support a lot too, so I get that, it can be tough.
If it's a simple screw up like that, not your fault, you tried your best
Athenes Lulu1 votesIf anything I still KS over voice chat, despite my friend and I work together quite well. And YES, mistakes do happen.
It's those kind of kill stealing where my ADC can take the kill, but my glitter last hit the enemy champ.
Electrify693 votesKill stealing is kind of a non factor think of kill securing but the last hitting all your minions s is complete bullshit and has to stop if I may ask what elo are you to have supports taking cs
The Aqualious1 votesBronze
The Last Ballad1 votesThat would do it. But I hate it when I try to lower the minions health down for the adc to kill (only for the first wave and a half to get to lvl 2 before the enemy duo) and their aa reaches the minion first. Or I am waiting in a bush and the champ just starts auto attacking...
The Aqualious1 votesWhich supports?
Also to avoid that problem I's just say, start a fresh minion for them
As for the auto aa, random click the ground
Rundus12 votesIf you are playing solo I am sorry. As a support main I have 3 mentalities going into a game based off of champ select convo alone (i dont have much longer to prepare):
2)I'm bot with a random who answers when I try to communicate or at least listens somehow (If I ask them not to play Vayne bc the enemy has no tank and they swap to lucian or something). I go ham with the supporting. Wards, pings, advice, compliments, and ample amounts of being uber-kind if they do anything I can give praise for. It really helps.
3)I'm bot with a random who ticked me off. They insta locked Vayne/Kali first pick (I hate those 2 adcs most of the time) and said stfu when I asked if they had a preference for support. They might not respond much, so I pick Sona. The lane is mine. You can cs, and I won't steal cs on purpose, but I also wont go out of my way to avoid doing it while I harass and work the lane. If you back, I will farm every minion I can to balance the lane so I can bully them. I will flash take first blood at the slightest hesitation bc I have no clue if you will and you won't talk, but instead spam-ping me or flame after. After taking first blood I rush a sheen before my usual Eye of the Watchers and get my early Athenes. I now attack indiscriminately. Whether or not you get the kill means nothing to me, especially if you try to 1v2 the moment I leave lane and blame me if you fail bc I "stole" your kill and you didn't want me taking any more. Now I just do me and I'll be nice to the rest of the team. I rally jg and mid, maybe gank top if I can (it throws people off so hard and if I'm ahead it works a lot), and I carry the team by making it my personal job to stun at least 2 people of importance per ult and obliterate their adc every fight.
Moral of the story: Communication is key. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but if you don't communicate, you effectively leave your support with two options: 1) play normally and just hope this adc knows what they are doing and I can still build full support for the team. 2) Play with the mindset that this adc likely doesn't know what they are doing and I will not risk the game to bet on them any more than I have to. I build my support core and the rest is aimed to pick up the slack. Before any game starts try to play nice with your support (or even just your team. That's a good idea too) and let them know that you plan to go hard if you get a chance and make sure they're on the same page. As for stealing cs, that's either an accident, a relic proc or a douchebag. Can't really change that much.
The Aqualious1 votesThat's a smart way of thinking, never trust an asshole, can really screw things up.
Vicarious1172 votesI personally don't think making sure your ADC gets every single fucking kill is as important as ADC mains seem to think......
You still get gold for assists, and the absence of an enemy in lane in and of itself gives the ADC time to get ahead as well. Meaning if you're playing well and the enemy team is dying, then the ADC getting the kill or not won't largely contribute to whether you win or lose.
I mean if you're a 1/0/9 ADC against a 2/8/1 ADC and you lose that fight it's not cause they have more kills then you, it's cause you suck or simply took too long to close out the game, something you can easily do whether you're getting kills or assists. As long as your enemy is dying you will win if you know how to play.
I feel like too many people, ADC mains in particular, have become far too reliant on snowballing in order to win.....
The Aqualious2 votesThey don't need every single kill, but I do believe, which is also the mindset I use while supporting:
A fed adc is a strong one, key damage dealer of the team
Getting assists are fine, dead things are good things, especially mid to late game, but in the early game, if the adc CAN get the kill, and support goes out of their way to take it, it's annoying
You get more gold for kills than assists, therefore, you can really become a monster to deal with as you get more kills
Mid and Late game, fine
But early game, please supports, if the adc can, let them have it, unless proven that the adc is useless
Note: not an adc main, in fact don't have a main role, my opinion is just based on my experiences
Vicarious1172 votesDon't think I ever actually called you an ADC main personally, but I can see how it might appear that way, so my apologies.
And you are right, I agree that it's better for the team that if the ADC is at least half competent that they should receive a kill instead of a support, I just don't think it's all that integral to a win.
I mean if the support does get the kills then they can get more damage and rival a mid laner (I.e. Zyra), get enough actives as well as warding items, or just wards themselves, to help their team more then an ADC might (i.e. Thresh), or even just become so unbelievably tanky that they can constantly engage and never worry about being killed (i.e. Alistair). So they can help the team out with more gold just as much, especially if the ADC is still getting assist gold as well as more farm time then their counterpart.
But again yes, more often then not it's easier to just get an ADC fed and peel for them, especially since support don't need as much gold to be effective while ADCs typically need a lot, I will concede that point.
I guess where I get annoyed is when I'm playing a carry jungler and my ADC gets mad at me for taking a kill from them, which they do at least half of the damn time. But yeah if we're talking solely support vs ADC then I can see your pov.
Athenes Lulu1 votesTaking one or two in lane is okay, but anything more than that usually puts the ADC sorta behind because the enemy has more gold for more items. Even supports who actually are experienced at not taking kills take them by accident sometimes.
For instance, an 1/0/5 ADC on the winning side has less gold than a 2/6/1 ADC, assuming equal farm. That's something to keep in mind, and that's when kills on ADCs actually matter. Whenever I see a support having more than 1/2 of the total botlane kills, I know the enemy ADC is going to be useless unless their entire team is stomping the crap out of us.
Vicarious1171 votesIf an ADC has died 6 times he will have less farm then one who has not died or only died once, and good farm gives just as much if not more gold then getting kills does, so if your support keeps getting kills against the enemy ADC you WILL have more gold if you don't suck.
Athenes Lulu1 votes"assuming equal farm".
Yes I have came across plenty of ADCs who die a lot, but can farm up very well. Sometimes just because an ADC is on the winning side that doesn't make him a better farmer automatically. There's even cases where the winning ADC doesn't know that he still has to take farm after beating up towers, and ended up having less gold than the enemy does, resulting the enemy ADC to become a bigger threat later on.
Of course this doesn't happen every time a support takes too many kills, but often enough for me to abuse the crap out of the actually underfarmed and underfed ADC.
Vicarious1171 votesThat also means having more kills won't directly result in a win for them, if they can't farm well, so my statement still stands.
BeeCuz1 votesIf you're not into teamwork then play a solo lane.
The Aqualious2 votesNo, I do like team work, and I understand that there are case where the support should farm or should take the kill, I've just had some experience's lately where they actively last hit the minion I'm about to get, or take the kill I'm about to get,
Guess this is more of a vent than a PSA
The Last Ballad1 votesThe support taking cs or kills that the adc can get is not teamwork. With minions the only time you should attack them is during the first wave and a half(for a quicker lvl 2) or if the wave is almost to your tower(or your adc is nowhere near you). With champ kills you should strive to only get it to save the adc or to take out an enemy laner/jungler if they are almost clear and it is unclear if the adc can get the kill. Accidents happen(adc's aa reaching the enemy champ before your cc, causing them to die by your hand) but doing it consistently is not teamwork. You are a support and you should be supporting them, not yourself(unless you are Zyra, then you support by carrying the game...).
Oleandervine1 votesUnless your Support is taking out 5-6 minions at a time, killing 1 or 2 sporadically is not going to ruin your game. I'm sorry, it just doesn't happen that way.
The Aqualious2 votesI understand that, I'm okay with 1-2 even 3, but if they're doing it from every wave and not being careful, it's annoying
That being said, if the relic shield passive is up when they're last hitting, not a problem
Streetlight Man1 votesOn the contrary, I have no regrets being Dat Boi
The Deckowner1 votesPartly true, but remember before your support have a sightstone, it is worth to give the support any spare resource(ie kills) to rush it.
Godhri1 votesAs someone who used to main support and plays support 50% of the time currently, I have to say it is unnecessary to give the support any kills or spare resources. They have all the tools needed to gain the minimal amount of gold they need for support items.
Umio1 votesDont focus on that. Happens all the time. Just try to out CS your support and focus on the towers. . .
MunchCrunchLunch1 voteswell there is always both sides to a story. I never. personally care about kill stealing. never. i dont see it that way at all. but i do sometimes see supports prioritizing them getting kills (its usually a bard that ignites and qs the enemy before they die). i mean its better to have kills on the adc always. i never comment about it but it does happen to see ksing purposely by a support for some reason. i mean sure you want to make sure you get the kill but sometimes its just better to let the damage dealers take it when there is no way they are getting away.
dim2a1 votesIn terms of cs, yes, competent support should not take any cs adc can get (relic is an exception of course, as well as some cs as a side-effect of poking).
But in terms of kill, I'd say don't worry about it until you reach plat -- assist is ~80% as good as kill on average (since after it you usually get free farm, enemy misses out on xp, etc), and in low ELOs chance of kill escaping/turning and killing adc/other messups is just too large, so don't worry about ks until much higher ranks where people's performance is more consistent. Most of the gold comes from cs anyway, and those don't run or fight back.
Athenes Lulu1 votesPreach! We all know ADCs get just as much shit from their supports, and if anything it's usually supports fucking up that screws botlane over.
Not going for an engage? Fine, at least they are not getting anything more than we do. But supports not doing anything when someone makes a mistake, so therefore there's no CC/damage to patch it up? I feel ya pain. Hell, if anything, whenever I make the stupidest mistakes, botlane is nearly guaranteed over. Whenever my ADC makes mistakes, at least I have CC to make shit less painful, and that he can return to his attack/retreat mode and hopefully no significant advantage is given to the enemy laners.
One note, sometimes it's not all bad to give some of the kill shares to supports as early kill gold allow them to rush sightstones and help you survive in lane better. Though if you already have damage items and somehow still aren't taking kills, that's more on you. If I give you perfect conditions for you to farm and/or trade and you're not taking that advantage, that's also on you. Yes, we know you NEED your teammates to do your job for peels, but that means you have to return the favor for damage so WE can do our jobs.
No, this doesn't mean either of us has to submit to one another, but that doesn't mean one side is always at fault and that the other is never at fault. Since a big part of botlane success is measured by how well two people can work together, which also means both of us have to remain respectful instead of bitching and whining over shit neither of us can't do.
Yeah, this shit sounds so generic, but still a good reminder for all.
Friendly Ram1 votesKk just don't complain if i cs when you are missing. Good luck in your future games.