In regards to the current Meta and Zed

Flay and Pray··19 votes·3,668 views

It is obvious that Zed is currently amazing in the mid lane meta and has caused some problems throughout the community. Riot has been hesitating to nerf him even though he needs them, and I'll tell you why.

Reason 1: Zed was balanced before the mana regeneration nerfs

I must admit even though I hate playing against Zed and his safety and mobility, he was perfectly balanced not long ago, and direct buffs didn't put him in the state he is currently in. Not long ago mana regeneration was hit hard, and this affected Zed dramatically. Before the mana regen nerfs, champions like Ziggs Orianna and Syndra were able to punish Zed by pushing to his tower when he roamed, now due to those nerfs they never have enough mana to do so. Even champions like Lissandra (who has the lowest base mana regeneration of any Mage) cannot compete with Zed's sustain in lane. This is why Azir has seen a recent resurgence. He doesn't have the mana problems of other mages due to his immense wave clear with little to no mana cost due to his soldiers low cost and free auto attacks.

The solution to this problem is simple. Instead of nerfing morellonomicom JUST because it was better than Athenes, you should have buffed athenes. It was the ideal item for most mages and after the nerfs to it, it's sadly not worth purchasing any more.

**Reason 2: **

Roaming potential

Champions that used to be able to keep up with Zed's roaming potential were nerfed. Talon Khazix and even (dare I say, Fizz , even though his nerfs were deserved) cannot keep up with Zed anymore. While this problem doesn't necessarily need to be addressed since the affected champions are fairly balanced, it is a reason for Zed's domination of the current meta.

Reason 3

The Removal of DFG

After our lord and savior DFG, was removed from the game champions such as Leblanc Veigar Mordekaiser and Syndra had their core item completely removed with no compensation. While a couple of those champs don't necessarily need compensation it's worth noting it was a size able nerf to some champs that had a good matchup against Zed beforehand.

Conclusion: My conclusion is over the past month mages have been nerfed across the board and have little no compensation for it as of today. The once balanced Zed and other non mana mid laners such as Katarina and Akali can now spam their abilities and outsustain the enemy mid laner much faster. Other champions roaming potential has been reduced, and mages who once countered Zed had their core item removed. At the end of the day the real solution is to:

(TLDR)

  • Compensate some mages for the DFG removal/add a new 120 AP item
  • Buff mana regeneration and fix older champions mana regen

Thanks for reading, and please leave a comment saying if you agree and disagree with my theory on how to effectively balance Zed.

33 Comments

TauNoob111 votes

The biggest issue I see is that riot has admitted that they don't believe the mana-regen change was a nerf. If I recall correctly a mod posted a few weeks ago disagreeing with the community over this.

Flay and Pray5 votes

{quoted}

The biggest issue I see is that riot has admitted that they don't believe the mana-regen change was a nerf. If I recall correctly a mod posted a few weeks ago disagreeing with the community over this.

If they say increasing the cost of morellonomicon and nerfing athenes wasnt a nerf I dont know what to tell them :p.

TauNoob11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Flay and Pray,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J52baO47,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-02-02T03:27:58.529+0000)

If they say increasing the cost of morellonomicon and nerfing athenes wasnt a nerf I dont know what to tell them :p.

I think it was about the change from flat regen to percent, not the morello's nerf.

Flay and Pray1 votes

I think it was about the change from flat regen to percent, not the morello's nerf.

Ah my mistake, in my post I was mostly talking about the morello and athenes nerfs that happened a while back.

ScurvyNave2 votes

{quoted}

The biggest issue I see is that riot has admitted that they don't believe the mana-regen change was a nerf. If I recall correctly a mod posted a few weeks ago disagreeing with the community over this.

How is having less mana and less efficient regen items not a nerf? It doesn't make sense mathematically

ScurvyNave7 votes

Yeah I'd have to agree. Zed himself isn't overly OP but the current meta/state of the game allows him to not only have lane advantage but also free roaming abilities. Don't nerf Zed just undo the mana regen nerfs and the problem should go away.

ChargeItDownMid5 votes

[deleted]

Flay and Pray4 votes

{quoted}

I really wouldn't say that zed was fine before the mana nerfs. He was a top pick/ban before season 5 started and should have been nerfed before worlds had riot not adopted the no large changes before worlds policy. The thing to remember is that he was never really "balanced" even before season 5. He was always either a top tier pick or a top 40 champion. He was never at or below average as a champion since the season 3 armor changes, he just fluctuated from top tier to second tier and back to top tier. IMO, riot needs to just throw the book at him and nerf him down to an average champion, none of this nerf him but keep him teetering on broken bullshit.

I would have to agree with him being a good champion before season 5, but he wasn't nearly as broken as he is currently. If Riot were to buff mana regeneration and compensate some champs for DFGs removal he should be balanced once again. If after those changes he is still dominating mid lane then they could correctly nerf him from there with a good vision of what is keeping him OP.

Kingsgrave5 votes

Why don't we just remove Zed's ability to restore energy on non champions? That alone could balance him in lane.

I honestly think it's fair for most Mana using champions to actually be gated by Mana now. Most of them just spammed all day and night before the Mana and Athene changes, and I'm glad they can't anymore. If anything this change highlighted that Zed was never really gated by Energy and should honestly be gated just like other characters are with Mana.

If he ends up staying in lane too long still and out farming and out lasting every opponent, also reduce his Health Regen a tad.

Junkο2 votes

Wait it works on non champions too? I really can't believe i never noticed this as a Zed main, so that's why i never went ooe after like level 6. Yes that is broken, remove it.

ForgiveColour2 votes

Muh mana problem

AzirKassadinCassiopeiaLeblancLissandra

lol we have mana? I thought we were just cooldown champ

Flay and Pray6 votes

{quoted}

Muh mana problem

AzirKassadinCassiopeiaLeblancLissandra

lol we have mana? I thought we were just cooldown champ

Cass usually builds tear and so does Kass. I adressed Azir not having the problems, and leblanc doesnt usually need to spam

Darth Pixy Misa2 votes

In a Ideal situation Zed with 300 ad who gets all of his skills off would do 3376 damage to someone with no armor, over 1300 of that is in his Ult.

Best way to fix zed is to change his ult and increase his energy costs.

Change his ult so that the damage done is 80% ad + 10/20/30% damage done to target while the mark is active reducing his ult damage to 855

Then raise his energy costs to: Q : 80 / 75 / 70 / 65 / 60 W: 50 / 45 / 40 / 35 / 30 E: 60

Solidair32 votes

Grail doesn't need to be buffed! It was a problematic item beforehand for a REASON, and had to be gutted for game health and to keep overbearing mages in check.

And, I want to add that it is NOT a useless item, however it is far more restrictive in use and essentially MUST be used as, in its intended purpose, a defense/utility item. With a grail (or even just a chalice!) and a fully stacked tear/arch angels staff/seraph's (also a defensive item, though it does give good AP, too) it becomes very difficult to run out of mana. While I will not comment on the fact that this might make grail a bit TOO situational (an item that has to be bought with another item to truly be useful.... really?), it still has a purpose in ONE instance, and you know what? it does it well.

However if I was to suggest any Zed nerfs: His W AD bonus no longer applies to his auto attacks, putting more emphasis on his skills like an assassin SHOULD be played, or just limiting his waveclear via special damage against minions with abilities.

EfficientDynamo2 votes

This is slightly off-topic, but Riot should also look into diversifying the mana-regen items. At the moment you have your offensive item 3165 and defensive item 3174 options, while the other options of increasing your mana pool through a item 3027 or item 3003 don't always work well for all champs. It would be nice to have a mana regen option that offers some other advantage (and maybe ditch the regen/cooldown reduction pairing on all the current items).

CrazedPorcupine2 votes

The problem is, DFG was toxic, it's a "Win More" item.

HOWEVER, I agree, Mana based mages lose out hard to zed because of how energy works. Everyone has said over and over that mana regen was nerfed stupidly Hard. If you want sizable mana regen, You pretty much HAVE to get both tear AND chalice in order to get the mana regen you need.

Either Way, I think that there does need to be a 120 AP item. The problem is that what strategic niche is it going to fill? (I personally like an active ability that gives an azir like wall that doesn't stop dashes from opponents, but still stops them from just walking away. (think Anivia wall + Azir wall, Passthroughable by allies, enemies can't walk through, but can dash and blink through)

48983507DEL12 votes

Thank you, finally someone isn't just spamming complaints about how Zed is overpowered, does too much damage, and has no counterplay, since he obviously does, without seeing the core problem

Dank Randy1 votes

Do people not know how to manage mana mid lane? Not defending zed, but mana doesn't seem like that big of a deal honestly. item 1056 item 1056

ScurvyNave3 votes

{quoted}

Do people not know how to manage mana mid lane? Not defending zed, but mana doesn't seem like that big of a deal honestly. item 1056 item 1056

True two rings would help but then your funnelling gold into items that won't help you in the late game and delaying your core build items such as item 3157 or item 3165. Also (to tie this back into OP) against a zed you'll want to rush your zhonyas as fast as possible and building double dorans will slow you down and make you an easy target for an all in

Thresh Outta Fux1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Flay and Pray,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J52baO47,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-02-02T02:46:42.545+0000)

(TLDR)

  • Compensate some mages for the DFG removal/add a new 120 AP item
  • Buff mana regeneration and fix older champions mana regen
  • Slightly buff champs that used to be able to roam as well as Zed

Thanks for reading, and please leave a comment saying if you agree and disagree with my theory on how to effectively balance Zed.

I would have agreed, but these champs do not need buffed. Talon and Kha'Zix are able to be utilized by skilled players. Fizz and Zed and Leblanc can be abused by any half-conscious uncivilized primate, simply by smashing their fists against the computer.

Assassins need to be high risk high reward. Not no risk all reward. So I voted for gutting Zed instead.

Flay and Pray1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rentable Player,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J52baO47,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-02-02T04:54:11.711+0000)

I would have agreed, but these champs do not need buffed. Talon and Kha'Zix are able to be utilized by skilled players. Fizz and Zed and Leblanc can be abused by any half-conscious uncivilized primate, simply by smashing their fists against the computer.

Assassins need to be high risk high reward. Not no risk all reward. So I voted for gutting Zed instead.

Your right about this, I wasnt thinking when I made the TLDR. Earlier in the post I said they didnt need buffs but contradicted myself at the bottom, ill change it now.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

I agree that mana nerfs are the big reason Zed is so big right now.

However, I think mana nerfs are really good for the game. Athene's was an item that let you ignore mana 99% of the time. Would not recommend going back to silly waveclear availability.

Flay and Pray2 votes

{quoted}

I agree that mana nerfs are the big reason Zed is so big right now.

However, I think mana nerfs are really good for the game. Athene's was an item that let you ignore mana 99% of the time. Would not recommend going back to silly waveclear availability.

I think the biggest problem is some champs like Ziggs took too much advantage of the item while other champs like Orianna and Veigar used it effectively without it being OP. If they were to buff it they could increase the mana costs of the champions that break the item.

SmokingPuffin2 votes

I would much prefer reducing the mana costs of the champions that are struggling without Athene's. Better not to balance kit usage around one item -- what happens if you're laning against someone that pushes you to rush something else?

Flay and Pray1 votes

{quoted}

I would much prefer reducing the mana costs of the champions that are struggling without Athene's. Better not to balance kit usage around one item -- what happens if you're laning against someone that pushes you to rush something else?

That's also what balances it. A champion can get the item in order to keep up with Zed's constant harass or if he is fed or they just want to be safe they could grab an armguard.

shadecrapper1 votes

Make Zed Katarina and Akali mana champions, problem solved.

Schteltzer1 votes

I get downvoted in "Zed is op nerf pls qq" threads when I say that he isn't op but the reason why he is stronger now is because of the mana regen nerfs. Good thing there are other people in this community who can think normally

AbstracT Theory1 votes

Akali has much higher risk now since she cant proc q with her e anymore. Yeah, they nerfed that. I used to main akali long back before her w nerf, when is still gave MR/Armor, she was much more viable then.

Drunk Rummate1 votes

mana regeneration is in a great spot right now. energy champions just need to be brought down to the same level of regeneration as the other resources. nerf the energy costs on zed by decreasing the rate that it regenerates to 5 per second instead of 10.

Flay and Pray3 votes

{quoted}

mana regeneration is in a great spot right now. energy champions just need to be brought down to the same level of regeneration as the other resources. nerf the energy costs on zed by decreasing the rate that it regenerates to 5 per second instead of 10.

If anything he just shouldn't gain energy back for hitting minions. This would reduce his poking and wave clear potential, without hurting his burst or roaming potential.

lojician1 votes

Be real last season mages had zero gating from being mana champions. They just built a chalice and spammed skillshot harass. I understand it constrained their build path but infinite high range poke is a big deal.

Goldenwolf141 votes

I agree with some of the following things you have said, mainly the mana regen nerfs section, but I do not agree with Zed ever being truly balanced because of the one little fact that he has always been like Riven. What I mean by he has always been like Riven is that you can just kinda slam your face on your keyboard and somehow go 11/4 in a game ( which is true because I play Zed from time to time and that's literally the outcome and how I play ), which in my opinion is not a healthy way for any champ to be played. So just buffing mana champs will not stop Zed from being a broken champ they will need to gut him a bit more than just lowering his attack speed.

SmokinSickStyle1 votes

101% agreed.

Not long ago, like 3 months ago, just a tiny bit before pre-season changes Zed was deemed balanced by 99% of the community, even a bit longer ago he was deemed trash because of Exhaust having 50% damage reduction, suddenly it became 40% and people stopped COMPLETELY to pick it up against him.

I do play Zed and know him as my pockets, and whenever i find him in lane i can do better against him than most people would expect, if i feed it's not as hard.

Also, this mana regen Issue is not limited to mages only, there's a whole lot of champions who are AD\AP and casters WITH mana, and if they didn't build mana regen now they might want to, except AP itemization is usually much more efficient when it comes to this.

The mana regen nerfs must be either reverted or buffed up to approx 75% of it's old strength, i repeat, not only mages use mana to cast spells, they might be the most reliant ones but still...

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