Garen update -- aimed at new players?

Nivloc·8/18/2015, 11:18:40 PM·15 votes·3,956 views

Alright, so this is a little old, but here's the quote:

"8/5 Update (available to test in 8/6 PBE build) Hi guys, Sorry about not communicating much with everyone about Garen since yesterday. I spent much of last night and today reading yours and the rest of the community's thoughts on the changes to get a good grasp of where to go with Garen for the next iteration, which takes us to today's changes. There was a lot of consistent feedback on certain elements of yesterday's changes, so today's changes aim to address some of those concerns. The main goals of today's changes are: Address Judgment's relatively low counterplay in a way that gives more gameplay to Garen and opponents, rather than just taking gameplay opportunity from Garen (as in the last set of changes) Reduce some of the weirdness with the changed W passive. It isn't really intended that Garen feels like a champion that needs to invest heavily into 'farming up' a ton of minions (much moreso than other champions, anyway), but we do feel this W passive is a good direction for two main reasons: flat resistances synergize well with Health scaling that Garen has on his passive and other items_, and as a champion recommended for beginners, it teaches some of the importance of farming._"

RIOT, you do NOT make characters specifically aimed at new players. There are champions that are easier to learn the basics of for new players, but this? You're creating an aspect to the ability that doesn't really fit with the character's style (farming for stats) to teach beginning players that they should farm. What the hell? That feels like an injustice to all of the players who know that farming is worth doing, and you're assuming that a new player will A.) play Garen and B.) read the tooltip. Even so, there are far more important and ubiquitous reasons to farm minions, and if you want beginning players to know them, TELL THEM. Make a graph or something and put it in the tutorial. This just rubs me the wrong way.

32 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoir8/19/2015, 3:37:22 AM19 votes

I don't actually see what is wrong about stating that a champion is recommended for beginners. I did not say that Garen is only for beginners, or not for veterans, or that you should grow out of him, or anything of the sort really. Mostly this just seems like you don't like the farming mechanic, which is totally cool and all, but given that we believe it helps fill out the needs of the kit, I don't really think that any thematic misalignment costs (which I believe to be small in this case, if any) we're paying here are of huge concern in this case.

redniwediS8/18/2015, 11:26:17 PM9 votes

As far as I can tell Garen wasn't originally made as a starter champion, he was just supposed to be a regular champ. I don't know where this "beginner" crap started, but Riot is sure having a hard time shaking it off.

Changes effect every level of play, you guys know this better than we do. Using that type of language to justify a change just feels bad to anyone who spends their time playing said champion, when it can easily be said another way.

I'm not saying Riot should censor themselves, I'm saying the thought behind it should be changed. A champion that is for beginners is typically a champion that is not for veterans, where as a champion that is simply more accessible is for everyone.

Critmaster Garen8/18/2015, 11:26:43 PM5 votes

i dont care why they did it. the new w passive is better than the current one, except for some nieche cases.

escpecially since armor items are getting the shaft.

by the way, the rioter in question also talked with high ranked garen mains (yes, thats a thing even before the rework) about the changes. and that resulted into the removal of the self slow and certain other changes. so while his first iteration as frankly terrible, hes not just geared towards beginners now.

i just hope theyre putting the increased resistance bonus from jungle monsters back. jungle garen looked kindof fun with that villain mechanic. youre basically getting a huge advantage against lanes that are already ahead and make ganks more likely to succeed.

and if the enemy jungler is marked its a good time to invade and counterjungle.

The Fast8/18/2015, 11:34:14 PM2 votes

Do you actually think that they created new Garen specifically for new players? Garen was problematic for several reasons, and they worked to address that while keeping his nature as a simple champion that new players can use to learn the game, while also helping him become a champion with a more defined competitive use.

The passive is fully stacked at 120 minions. This means that by 15 minutes, you'll have 30 bonus armor and MR, worth roughly 1500-2000 gold or so. This is a change with far reaching consequences beyond "teaching new players." Instead of making his W "get more from things you buy," it is now just "get things for farming," which you should be doing anyway. It provides a power curve, and earlier resistances to survive and outduel. Garen can now put off buying magic resist longer than before. Garen can now put off buying armor longer than before. This makes skipping sunfire and heading straight to Black Cleaver more realistic. His new W is also better than his old W in terms of resistance gained until he crosses 150 bonus armor or MR, which generally means Garen is MUCH better against magic damage, while his armor got hit substantially, but it also means that his mid-game is much stronger in terms of damage tankable, and makes early dives much easier for Garen.

Its not just "for the new players" there are a lot of things that this changes for higher end players too.

Daedalus8718/19/2015, 5:48:55 AM1 votes

Garen was already a noob friendly champion. If they can reinforce some good lessons with him, why not do it?

Biff Manly8/19/2015, 6:50:34 AM1 votes

The curse that all 450 champs carry. Never shall he break the shackles of noob-association.

Zero Engine8/18/2015, 11:46:06 PM1 votes

[deleted]

ID x iKuma8/18/2015, 11:53:07 PM1 votes

aimed at ur mom

Insane Pyromanic8/19/2015, 4:04:35 AM1 votes

It makes me sad so few people remember that this W is how garen's W worked 3 years ago, but it didn't scale as well. I've been playing this game too long. Oh, and everyone on the old fourms cried when they changed it to the new version percent version and moved his slow removal to his q from his e back then too. Its a big cycle I suppose.