Why not just give flash to everyone for free?

BranchofSin5580·Dec 15, 2014·10 votes·3,761 views

Just don't treat it like a Summoner spell anymore. Treat it as a core mechanic that has no

So everyone can take 2 summoner spells.

If you fear Ignite/Exhaust combos will become too strong, just add 2 tiers.

Every champion can only take an C tier summoner spell and a U tier summoner spell OR 2 U Summoner spells.

Combat tier: Ignite, Exhaust, Heal, Barrier, Smite.

Utility tier: Ghost, Teleport, Clarity, Clairvoyance, basically every other summoner.

Since everyone has Flash, no one can complain about it anymore.

You are not forced to take it to not be at a disadvantage. Riot gives it to you for free.

28 Comments

ValyrianBladeDec 15, 20144 votes

These suggestions are frequent, and they're always unfair to strategies that don't use flash.

In particular, there are many junglers who can benefit from taking something other than flash to go with smite - hecarim runs ghost, some udyrs/yis run teleport, some early aggressive junglers run ignite. unfair to give everyone flash for free, who's to say that flash would be the first choice of those not taking it currently if they were to get a third spell? Everyone taking flash already gets to choose from the remainder. A more fair suggestion would be to allow everyone to take a third summoner, but that doesn't fix your issue with flash. What exactly is your issue with flash though? What's wrong with having a high impact summoner with a huge cooldown being very popular? Riot could further increase the cooldown, but it seems players are showing they want the impact option.

DrCyanideDec 15, 20143 votes

I'm trying to think of a situation where Shaco would be at more of a disadvantage having Flash, Smite and Ignite rather than just Smite and Ignite. He gets the highest valued summoner spell for free. The enemy jungler gets the option to take the 2nd highest valued spell, or whatever fits their needs best.

I hate how Flash is a mandatory pick, while other summoner spells summoner 21 {{summoner:2}} summoner 13 {{summoner:10}} are left to rot. Let's be honest, the game only has summoner 3 summoner 4 summoner 6 summoner 7 summoner 14 summoner 11 summoner 12 . Riot could delete all the rest this afternoon and it would take most of the players a week or longer to realize they were missing.

Hoi Im TemmoDec 15, 20141 votes

T_T its true

ValyrianBladeDec 15, 20141 votes

The point isn't that adding flash would hurt Shaco, it's that perhaps Shaco would take something else (say teleport because he loves to backdoor, or exhaust for ganks/teamfight) but adding flash as mandatory would remove that option. Whereas anyone who currently takes flash would actually get to choose a third summoner. Maybe those not taking flash would want it as their third option, but why should that choice be made for them?

I think the issue is with making other summoners able to have the same high impact flash has. Imagine is proc'ing heal didn't show anything to the enemy and they thought you were dead and it shows you with 1hp until they burn through the heal amount - the baits/escapes would be unreal! Or if ignite had the range to kill enemies that thought they'd escaped successfully? Or if the spell that removes cc (cleanse) also made you immune to cc? Or if ghost granted some sort of stealth mechanic? Or if revive could be chosen to revive you anywhere within 1000 range of where you died? Or if clarity didn't just restore mana but also gave an AP bonus for a bit after use? Or if barrier could prevent projectiles from passing through you towards a teammate?

The issue with flash is that the other spells need a higher impact. People value high impact high cooldown more than medium impact medium cooldown.

DrCyanideDec 15, 20143 votes

OK, I can see how picking 3 would be better.

The other Summoner Spells don't have to be on the same level as Flash, but my goodness, can they at last be on the level of Heal? Or Exhaust? Or Teleport? Or Ghost even?

http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=spell-popularity&range=monthly&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=challenger

These numbers aren't the same for all skill levels, but it's still worth pointing out the disparity.

summoner 4 - 49.2% (almost every person every game) summoner 14 - 14.4% (two or three per game) summoner 7 - 10.8% (about one person per team) summoner 11 - 9.9% (about one person per team) summoner 12 - 8.4% (often taken by one person per team, but not always) summoner 3 - 5.8% (about once every other game by someone on your team) summoner 6 - 0.8% (taken about once every 5 games)

summoner 21 {{summoner:2}} summoner 13 {{summoner:10}} combined - 0.1%(taken about once every 50 games by someone on your team)*

*Assuming the site didn't round up to the nearest tenth of a percent, which it probably did. Assuming equal distribution of those five spells, you're likely to see each only once every 250 games on your team.

You can't honestly tel me there's nothing that can be done to make it so that a combination of 5 summoner spells get picked more than once every 50 games.

SmokingPuffinDec 15, 20141 votes

I like the idea of higher impact summoner spells, especially for the less used ones.

Or if ghost granted some sort of stealth mechanic?

My pet crazy is ghost letting you move through walls.

BranchofSin5580Dec 15, 20141 votes

I don't have any particular problem with Flash.

It's just that it is in every single game and because it is too good.

The removal of Flash as a Summoner spell but the implementation of it as a Core Element everyone has access to by Default would only open up Variety.

And what's the issues with buffing a jungler like Hecarim who rarely ever sees play nowadays?

ValyrianBladeDec 15, 20141 votes

My argument was that it would hurt hecarim.

Lane hecarim takes ghost with ignite or teleport, not flash. So jungle hecarim may have 4 preferred spells over flash (ghost, smite, ignite, teleport) meaning he's forced to take his 5th most optimal summoner, whereas 90% of Champions are forced to take their 1st/2nd most optimal summoner and thus get their 3 most preferred summoners.

Making flash mandatory doesn't "improve variety", it makes flash on every champion every game. Adding a third summoner would be better for variety, but you're still going to see flash almost all of the time.

I'd also argue that flash isn't "too good". It's a high impact spell on a huge cooldown. There are many champions with ultimate and non-ult abilities that are similar to flash, yet these champions aren't ridiculously op (and they often still take flash). Increasing the cooldown could balance flash to not be as popular, but I doubt it will happen. Flash makes big plays, it's fun to play with and to see. With the 5 min cooldown, at the most competitive levels we know flash is amazing because 1 kill/death can turn a game. At lower levels of play... There's no guarantee that flash is actually optimal, it's merely believed to be. Perhaps the increased cooldown isn't worth it, there's really no way to know.

BoswickDec 15, 20141 votes

Maybe i'm dumb but i'm just not seeing the logic here. Lane Hecarim takes Ghost and Tp, but now also gets flash. This somehow puts him at a disadvantage? Maybe he would've preferred a different 3rd summoner but who cares? It's still a net gain.

Honestly how many champs can get away with not running flash? Like half a dozen, maybe. Flash is already mandatory. You can argue that giving everyone flash as it's own key would benefit these few champs slightly less than the other 100+ but that doesn't seem like a good reason not to do it.

Penguin EclipseDec 15, 20141 votes

I personally have a problem with giving champions free power outside of their/allies kit/items. Every champion would benefit from having a free Flash outside of their summoner spells. That doesn't mean we should give it to them. Flash is able to erase human error and make plays that wouldn't be possible without it. There should be a cost for that. Using up a summoner spell slot is a small cost for the utility it provides.

{quoted} Maybe i'm dumb but i'm just not seeing the logic here. Lane Hecarim takes Ghost and Tp, but now also gets flash. This somehow puts him at a disadvantage? Maybe he would've preferred a different 3rd summoner but who cares? It's still a net gain.

Honestly how many champs can get away with not running flash? Like half a dozen, maybe. Flash is already mandatory. You can argue that giving everyone flash as it's own key would benefit these few champs slightly less than the other 100+ but that doesn't seem like a good reason not to do it.

I almost never take Flash top lane anymore. It's nice to have, but teleport and ignite has proven to be a better combo for me no matter who I play.

It is surprisingly easy to play without Flash once you get used to it.

ValyrianBladeDec 15, 20141 votes

The point is everything is relative. If one champion gains less from making flash mandatory than another, it throws balance out if whack. Since the champions who don't take flash are already not really meta, it would only make them even less viable.

BranchofSin5580Dec 15, 20141 votes

I still don't see how it would hurt Hecarim.

The fact that he is getting something for free should be enough to overcome everything else.

Everyone is recieving the same for free. Everyone can take the 2 Summoner spells they like the most.

Flash is no longer a Summoner spell, Flash should never have been treated as a Summoner Spell.

It should be treated as a core element of the Game everyone has access to.

The fact that you would get 2 summoner spells other than flash is the biggest buff you could give to someone like Mordekaiser. Allowing him to stick to his oponent with Ghost aswell as having an escape tool for free.

Singed would be able to FlashE people into his team again, like he used to do before Teleport started becoming mandatory in the top lane.

Flash is the best summoner spell in the game hands down.

Allowing Hecarim to set up his E without having to waste his ult every single gank would be the best buff he could recieve.

ValyrianBladeDec 15, 20141 votes

The point is it would help someone who doesn't normally take it LESS than it would help people who already choose to take it (at least theoretically).

Everything in league is relative. If you give a champion an extra 10 health it's a buff, if you give him +10 health and everyone else +1000 health, it's a nerf.

BranchofSin5580Dec 15, 20141 votes

The thing is

The third most used summoner spell on Hecarim is Flash.

Flash is always the first, second or third best option on someone.

There's no way around it.

ValyrianBladeDec 15, 20141 votes

Where is this data from?

Because I've played a lot of hecarim, and watched Games ranging from gold to challenger, and I've never seen a hecarim run flash.

Ignoring people who don't main hecarim and take flash by default (so bronze, silver, and low levels), I would imagine the most popular summoner spells on hecarim are:

Ghost (100%)
Smite (always when jungling, so probably around 60%)
Ignite (always when mid, most common when top, so probably around 35%)
Teleport (for those top laners who for some reason follow a meta summoner for their Lane while not picking a meta champion)
Flash

Almost all hecarim players take ghost instead of flash because of his passive. Whether that means flash would be the optimal third choice for jungle hecarim is open for debate - it's far from certain he wouldn't prefer ignite or even exhaust though. He already has a lot of mobility, a 5 min cooldown flash is nice but other options may be preferable.

All I'm saying is, if you're going to give 90% of Champions their preferred spell and let them choose 2 others, how is that fair to the champions who might choose something other than flash. Some champions/players value the advantages of other summoners over flash.

BranchofSin5580Dec 15, 20141 votes

http://www.lolking.net/champions/hecarim#overview

Smite 80% of the time

Ghost 60% of the time

Flash 30% of the time

Teleport 10% of the time

ValyrianBladeDec 15, 20141 votes

Okay, at least you have a source ;)

All that really tells me though is that 1/3 of hecarim players don't understand that ghost > flash on him. If the ghost number was higher and some actually ran both spells then maybe I'd change my mind.

Surprised how common smite is, I guess he lanes less often than my experience has shown. Also surprised teleport is more popular than ignite, as I see ignite on him a lot. Perhaps it's a region vs world thing though (I've only watched NA).

Also I'll point out that being the third most popular doesn't make it the best option as a third summoner spell - you have to consider synergy with other summoners and what opens up by having 3 instead of 2.

Dr Clueless PhDDec 15, 20142 votes

Among other things, they probably don't want to move LoL from a 6-button game to a 7-button game.

maikokkDec 15, 20142 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Clueless PhD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IsN3ElT3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2014-12-15T14:56:37.411+0000) Among other things, they probably don't want to move LoL from a 6-button game to a 7-button game.

its really an 8-10 button game depending on how many item actives you have (within believable reason) nobody has zero item actives in their build anymore

maikokkDec 15, 20141 votes

{quoted} its really an 8-10 button game depending on how many item actives you have (within believable reason) nobody has zero item actives in their build anymore

qwerdf4 minimum. most likely 2 and 3 too

DrCyanideDec 15, 20141 votes

It is already a 7 to 13 button game. Trinkets and active items man! Use them!

maikokkDec 15, 20141 votes

why the fuck is gameplay and balance acting like GD with no comment threading

maikokkDec 15, 20141 votes

nvm apparently there is a toggle switch that flipped itself

ThulackDec 15, 20141 votes

It all depends on the champ. Some champs are better with Ghost, Some need cleanse for their matchup. Not every game is the same. There needs to be choices even for those 1% of the time. Obviously if you never play Jungle your not going to take Smite. If you dont play top your probably not taking teleport. ADC? you normally take heal. etc. it all depends on your matchup

Valhalla RisingDec 15, 20141 votes

I don't know how they could fix this but i do understand where you are coming from. it is a shame to see 90+% of all summoner spells be flash.

it just proves that dashes/gap closers are a bit too strong all around.

CenturosDec 15, 20141 votes

Eventually everyone will take ghost or tp, or something, and then ghost will be given to everyone for free. Fast forward to the end of time, when all champions get all summoner spells.

alaskaneagleDec 15, 20141 votes

54367

Flash is an OP over used summoner despite multiple nerfs.

I think riot has been going about it the wrong way though. Everyone has access to these spells so I don't think the answer is to nerf flash to death, in fact I think they should reverse the last nerf. I don't think the answer is give it to everyone either since it will threaten their marketing mix of easy to play. If it added another mandatory button it would become quite tedious.

I think they solution is to buff the other summoners, or add extra utility to them (like with heal, I loved what they did with heal). If they made all summoner spells viable we'd see less teams with 5 flashes, and more diversity.

The buff to heal was a great step, but they need to do a sweeping buff/balance session of all of them so we actually have a real choice of what to grab. Because right now there is no real choices.

zanzaguraJan 17, 20161 votes

They might as well. Flash is by far the most overused summoner spell in the game by a wide margin. I suggest EVERYONE gets a free flash and well as their own d and f of their choice. it's just to dominate.