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@Riot listen to the real problem with Teemo from a Teemo Main (Ivan Pavlov)

Menchies·6/21/2016, 11:11:22 PM·50 votes·4,914 views

Please before we start, don't just be like "Oh No A Teemo Thread, DOWNVOTE!" Thank you! Now we begin!

Everything Ivan Pavlov speaks in this video is truth and because of all this he does not want to play League of Legends anymore, and it's true, these are the list of issues that have slowly crippled over these past 10 months (especially and it's trap disabling effect) now I want to speak about for a second, there is nothing wrong with the sweeping part, it's the disabling effect, this disabling effect is so crippling when your playing because it can render 's Mushrooms useless for 10 seconds, allowing people to walk all over them in fights without them triggering literally making them irrelevant for the next 10 seconds, but the thing about this sweeper is that it sweeps and disables in an area around you (A pretty large one to), so people aren't just using this to clear mushrooms, they are literally just popping it in teamfights and render his mushrooms useless for the 10 seconds (when were trinkets supposed to ever be used for anything but vision control?), this has caused AP builds (wich i'm pretty sure you guys want him to be played this way Riot) to no longer be a viable option for quite some time now forcing us to use AD/Hybrid on hit builds (that teemo players call the "mallet build") that relies mainly on and some other on hit type of items (Ex's.,,,, etc) but this just feels like an abomination to the playstyle of , the worst part is that we aren't just using the "Mallet Build" because we wan't to, but only because it's sadly the most effective way to play right now (and it's not as effective as AP was any season before this one), and another thing is that wasn't OP with 10 minute mushrooms, you guys think that the bounce on 's mushrooms is useful when really not (but the throwing part was a good change can't deny that.) so why did you cut our shroom duration in half for this useless change?, wasn't op before , so why do you keep adding additions to the game that always messes us players up Riot? I am really curious at this point. And NO, I am not going to just be like well Ivan Pavlov Quit league so I'm going to as well, I just really want to hear what Riot has to say about all of this.

Thank You

69 Comments

DrugsForRobots6/22/2016, 4:03:49 AM14 votes

Upvoted for Teemo and the stealth crew. Riot, where is the love for stealth?

Personally, I think the Sweeping Lens is a cool item with a cool effect, but disabling the traps is over the top. As a Shaco main, I sympathize with you, and I hope Riot will consider making the Assassin Update at the end of the year into the (long overdue) Stealth Update.

But lets talk about Teemo.

I love how Teemo has two ways of playing with vision (his passive and traps), but I think he could easily have another. Have you considered what it would be like if Teemo's Q did the nearsight effect like Quinn's Q instead of the '100% miss chance'? I'd like to see such a change happen to him, because I think it would be great for him. Nearsight is effectively 'psuedo-stealth' and if Teemo's Q nearsighted, it would have great synergy with his passive! (They lose sight of you, only to recover moments later and Teemo is nowhere to be seen...)

Did you know that Shaco has 3 ways of playing with vision? It's true. I want to see Riot take a gamble and double down on the stealth crew. Evelynn and Nocturne especially would benefit from more ways of playing with sight, stealth, detection, and denial, as it would give their kits powerful utility without buffing their numbers. It would also emphasize their themes (DARKNESSSSS) and make them really stand out in the champion roster.

But back to Teemo. I want justice for him and the rest of the stealth crew. To do that, to give Teemo and the rest the love they deserve, we (Riot) needs to see that stealth has proper counterplay, and, likewise, so does effects like the Sweeping Lens and Oracle's and Vision Ward.

If you'd humor me, I'd like you to take a look at these ward ideas. They're designed to provide defense against stealthed champions but each has counterplay inherent to it.

Ultimately, Riot will probably keep ignoring the elephant in the room (stealth) and they'll keep pretending champions like Teemo, Shaco, and Eve don't exist. I'm not giving up hope though. I think the future of League is entwined with sight, stealth, detection, and denial. I just wish Riot could see what I see.

chipndip16/22/2016, 4:23:52 AM7 votes

Oh no, Teemo is a useless champion and Riot refuses acknowledge this, as does the player base. The grass is also green!

Look, the problem is that there's too many outdated champs and there's a fraction of this community that puts pressure on Riot to leave them that way when they need serious changes. Teemo's been left behind by the game. Period. He needs a massive overhaul. Plain and simple. His design does not fit in this game anymore, and it's horribly apparent. After Yorick, Teemo NEEDS to be the next major update project. I'm tired of that useless furball being on my team anyway.

67chrome6/21/2016, 11:51:25 PM7 votes

That video link doesn't work, as the video says it's private.

As for:

so why did you cut our shroom duration in half

Riot's vision changes.

When Teemo's shrooms lasted 10 minutes, there wasn't a limitation to the amount of wards any player could place down, and an item called Oracle's Elixir existed that gave truesight until their next death.

Main way to deal with Teemo was purchase Oracle's Elixir and a few green wards. Oracle's Elixir granted truesight that fallowed your champion much in the same way upgraded Red trinket does now, except the effect lasted until your champion died. The truesight would grant vision of any traps that weren't tucked away in brush, and you could plonk a green ward in suspect brush to extend your truesight there. Any traps that were revealed where easy to both avoid and kill.

After the vision changes, the per-player ward limitation made the vision Teemo's Traps provided much stronger relative to the darker map, and the removal of Oracle's and limitation of 1 pink per player made his traps much more of a permanent fixture. Due to his massive power spike from the vision changes, Riot nerffed Teemo. He was actually pretty strong for a short period of time and deserving of a nerf.

Almighty Teemo6/22/2016, 9:13:39 AM3 votes

Riot does not give a damn about Ivan's perspective of things. Like when Ivan posted a rant thread in reddit and Phreak tried to contradict his arguments with shitty excuses, which, in the end, showed how ignorant riot was about Teemo, but more importantly how stubborn they are about their awful balance philosophy.

Their change was a gimmick just to make Teemo players shut up, just to pretend that they care about this champion; meanwhile the Teemo hate was encouraged by riot, since they did not officially punish people who were toxic towards Teemo or Teemo players. It has been an act of hypocrisy and insensitivity by riot, which the ignorant community took as a "joke", calling Teemo satan, even YEARS after he had been gutted to the point where calling him toxic would be actually unfair.

The Deckowner6/22/2016, 10:04:02 PM3 votes

Upvote as a fellow Teemo player, onhit build is nowhere as fun as ap teemo build, but due to stupidly broken item 3364 I have been unable to play AP teemo for months, and when I do I can only do the onhit build which, tbh does no where as much dmg as ap teemo.

ModAcademy Kayn6/22/2016, 11:02:14 PM2 votes

My question is, does anyone ever have fun laning against teemo? I mean, people have fun crushing him to the ground, but is fighting him any actual fun? Especially if you're a melee champ...

JRobin316/23/2016, 4:05:56 AM2 votes

The disable on the traps is pretty brutal. On the other hand, I can't imagine a world in which I go Frozen Mallet on Teemo. Maybe I should try it sometime, but I'm skeptical.

RavensCapsOs6/22/2016, 5:39:36 AM2 votes

Teemo main here: I would be happy if they reworked teemo into a support champ. In my opinion if his shroom damage was completely gutted in favor of more utility, for instance they applied damage reduction, slow, whatever.
I think as a support, with a blind and the ability to create zones of impact, it would make him very exciting and fresh. His E would have to be changed though...

Sozan56/22/2016, 10:38:07 AM2 votes

I think Rito should just do the following changes:

item 3364 - no longer disables traps or wards (still reveals them). Oh, and no lingering vision for targets that are outside of the trinket area (so, the second the trinket runs out or you move away, the vision is gone). item 3341 - keeps current effects + reveals (completely, like Vision ward) enemy champions in the area at levels 9+.

This would accomplish the following:

Sweeping Lens would be worth taking in some situations (right now, Oracle Alteration is simply superior and nobody past level 9 will take Sweeping).
You would be able to counter stealth based champions without having to use up an item slot for vision ward (as long as you use the trinket in the right area).
You would have the choice of either revealing and destroying traps in large area or disabling them in a small one.

Teemo doesn't need any changes as he is now, as long as the Sweeping and Oracle Lenses are changed.

MunchCrunchLunch6/22/2016, 12:00:10 AM2 votes

add magic pen to his shrooms like gps barrells.

Yfrappefort6/24/2016, 4:15:35 AM1 votes

Patch 5.15 (mushrooms down from 10 minutes to 5 minutes) combined with item 3364 really killed Teemo. No amount of buffs they give him (especially not mana buffs) will fix that.

His AP build got destroyed. He lost his indentity. He lost his niche.

Teemo suck now. No other way to put it. Many, many champions just do what he does but way better in any position. R.I.P. my main since season 1.

Poske6/22/2016, 9:57:10 AM1 votes

Ugh so many wrong stuff with this post

Teemo got gutted when they lowered shroom duration to 5 minutes from 10 minutes. They added gimmicky changes to teemo which none uses and called it a buff (Not to mention they increased shroom arm time)
Nerfing Red Trinket is not the way to go. I am suprised you wouldnt want teemo buffed rather
That "Mallet" build triggers me. It makes me want to say horrible things to you or any teemo player who thinks thats good build

Correct way to play teemo is go mid. SINCE ITS CENTER OF THE MAP.. NO TOP since its lonely island. NO jungle since you ll get counterjungled BUT MID just go mid

Get nashor tooth cdr some mana and just spam the map with shrooms

Teemo does need some buffs though. That teemo main is just not good enough to reach higher elo though

Blåbæret6/22/2016, 6:03:55 AM1 votes

Lmao, you want to buff teemo shrooms which takes 60-70% of a squishies health late game as well as buffing their already too long duration?

His shrooms already have close to no counterplay. Teemo is a toxic, anti-fun and annoying champion to fight and should not recieve any buffs whatsoever. He needs to be reworked or just removed from the game.