Why no rioter say anything about Soraka?

Siegfriedx1··3 votes·605 views

I tried many times to bring up the subject but no rioter ever came to say even a little thought about her. Is riot avoiding talking about it?

She is not in a good spot gameplay wise, her win rate is not where it is because of the right reasons and she doesn't feel satisfying to play with [during mid late game] or against [during early game].

She should receive a soft rework around making her lane phase less oppressive and securing her utility on mid late game.

Can't ANYONE from RIOT just talk ANYTHING about it even if it's just "we think she is fine"?

This silence kind hurts because she is my beloved main and since a long time ago she have been in strange spots.

10 Comments

Epidor2 votes

I feel like they only take on one focus at a time. For whatever f***ing reason that was making sure tanks can 1v9 a game. I feel like being a support main you wont ever get what you're asking for :S

Siegfriedx11 votes

:[

LostFr0st1 votes

Tbh it doesn't look like she's struggling... http://lolalytics.com/champion/Soraka/ She received a soft rework a last year didn't she? I think it's probably a balancing problem with the starting support item shifts.

Siegfriedx11 votes

I don't agree with the mentality: "she have a high win rate she is ok"

Since they introduced that "rejuvenation system" she have been an oppressive lane phase champion with a horrible late game that can snowball an explosive mid game and that's it.

Having an oppressive early game can help alot on having a high win rate + the impact of new items have influence too.

But you wanna know who have exactly that same gameplay pattern? Nami. Soraka is soraka, i never wanted her to be "namified"

-Rejuvenation have 0 utility late game both for soraka and her allies because it scale horribly and damage happens to fast to have an "overtime small regen" as the only benefit of landing an starcall. -Starcall late game feels too slow and too punishing to use because of a sequence of factors like high mobility and damage on all enemy champions. -Soraka have a 0.5 second casting time on all her skill without a reasons since forever

And some other more.

I don't really mind if after those changes they make her in a champion that will have a terrible win rate. I just want to have fun playing her know the character make sense. I cant pretend this champion is only W and sneak that "namization" for many years without removing that "rejuvenation" placeholder.

LostFr0st1 votes

{quoted}

I don"t agree with the mentality: "she have a high win rate she is ok"

Not why I linked that particular site. Soraka has a learning curve, but once people learn her she does become oppressive. Before the rework she'd just win or go even in lane too though with no interaction at the hands of a good Soraka and a decent matchup.

It was the definition of naptime bottom lane.

Right now she reaches mid game and then stays flat from there. <--yes, I know this is the problem you're referring to.

Since they introduced that "rejuvenation system" she have been an oppressive lane phase champion with a horrible late game that can snowball an explosive mid game and that's it.

I agree it's dumb that the lane is decided on whether or not the opposing AD has the funds to buy grievous wounds. The Rejuv system was supposed to give them a chance to attack before the heal sets in instead of the instaheal BS from before. The current setup feels better for opponents and forces Soraka to think a few second ahead (until she gets items and then she just spams it).

Having an oppressive early game can help a lot on having a high win rate + the impact of new items have influence too.

But you wanna know who have exactly that same gameplay pattern? Nami. Soraka is soraka, i never wanted her to be "namified"

So, do you have preposed changes that would make her not Namified but more healthy? Nami is designed as a champ that needs to interact with the opponents, so technically Namified is a gameplay health compliment... except it's Soraka not Nami so it's not what we want.

Do keep in mind that every time they tweak/rework Soraka without getting it "right" Soraka mains are forced to re-learn their champion. It doesn't send a good message to the playerbase, so it's not something you want to keep happening.

-Rejuvenation have 0 utility late game both for soraka and her allies because it scale horribly and damage happens to fast to have an "overtime small regen" as the only benefit of landing an starcall.

It stacks with Spirit Visage, Masteries and any heal/shield power items she has.

It's actually very powerful, Soraka just don't actively "see it" as the Soraka since once she heals the ally she's not usually staring at them since she's looking at the whole battle. If you have replays you should watch them to see.

-Starcall late game feels too slow and too punishing to use because of a sequence of factors like high mobility and damage on all enemy champions.

Yes it's too slow to initiate with; Soraka isn't an initiating champ though. Her Q has the perfect delay as a followup ability, and it hits when used as intended.

-Soraka have a 0.5 second casting time on all her skill without a reasons since forever

Really? "No reason whatsoever" I can't actually read that with a straight face. ^^"

I don't really mind if after those changes they make her in a champion that will have a terrible win rate. I just want to have fun playing her know the character make sense. I cant pretend this champion is only W and sneak that "namization" for many years without removing that "rejuvenation" placeholder.

Fyi Soraka players care. They care a lot, and they love their champion as any main does. If you have a suggestion for tweaks to her I'm sure many would love to read it, and if it's awesome maybe they'll mull it over. However, tweaking her for the sake of tweaks is wrong.

Siegfriedx11 votes

Hey, thank you for dedicating time for you answer! I really appreciate the answer you provided and i will make an effort to provide one good for you too!

Ok, so from the start why am i creating so many topics about soraka lately? Who the hell am i? Im a guy that started playing soraka in season 4 and have achieved multiple marks playing her across the years. For example in 2014, i did an entire run from unranked to Master tier playing only her as recognized in this post:

http://forums.br.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=323165)

Also across the years i always would work with different strategies and ideas to impact the match using soraka of different ways. As many of you don't talk portuguese i took of some images of my match history back in the day to support what i am saying:

http://i.imgur.com/GQKbwrp.png

http://i.imgur.com/J3BnzMb.png

http://i.imgur.com/HCU26Zg.png

I used to play with some professional players occasionally too, like BRTT [adc of Red Canids from Brazil, that played worlds on Pain few years ago], and Yoda [streamer that recently left CNB e-sports]

http://i.imgur.com/pYwTTFI.png

With soraka i have maybe something close to 800.000 mastery points and all my elos that i had during my entire life are split in a bug that happened when i changed my account from brazilian server to NA.

The account i started with it's called siegfriedx1 [had other names in the past like Soraka sieg, and um white sieg], and in this server is called siegfx1. For some reason sites like op.gg think that those are 2 different accounts but you can check that they are the same by looking at some stats on lolking for example:

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/br/796297/%20Siegfriedx1#leagues http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/76019150/SiegFx1

I have progressively playing less and less as the years go, but i love Soraka the same way as i always did.


Now going to the points you made:

I agree it's dumb that the lane is decided on whether or not the opposing AD has the funds to buy grievous wounds. The Rejuv system was supposed to give them a chance to attack before the heal sets in instead of the insta heal BS from before. The current setup feels better for opponents and forces Soraka to think a few second ahead (until she gets items and then she just spams it).

This time i will be less emotional about the point i was trying to make and be very analytical about it. The Rejuvenation system was, in fact, not implemented to prevent only the insta heal from before and create more windows to assassins [although it was announced as that]. It was the higher straight forward power cutting nerf from the history of the game on an attempt to shift power from mid-late game to early game in a way never seen before.

How is that?

A lot of people don't remember that but Soraka not only healed instantaneously, but ALSO had an high AP ratio, would heal MORE if she was low in hp and her healing would be MULTIPLIED if star call landed on more than 1 enemy. The max effect would be something like 800% ap scaling if landing on the entire team, or something really close to that in the end of the day. Also astral infusion healed more and had a shorter cooldown.

What they removed from Soraka during the Rejuvenation implementation?

Sure they converted the full blown healing she could do for herself in to a way more modest regen. But was that all they did? It would be cool to convert all her instant healing in to a regen. In the end would be just a shift between instantaneous healing and a long time affect [what would make a lot of sense as assassins would have a good time killing her regardless but she would still be able to maneuver against tanks and fighters].

But that's what they did: They removed the high ap scaling, made sure that the base values of regen where lower than before on mid-late game, removed the multi landing stacking system, the mechanic of having a better healing if you are low health and then nerfed astral infusion base healings [also nerfing it's cooldown later on] with some kind of "transfer mechanic" that would allow Soraka to, if landing an starcall in an enemy, to transfer that regen.

In fact nothing in the game had suffered such a blow in just one patch in the entire history of league, not even kassadin or ryze.

So what they did to compensate for removing all that? They basically removed the entire mid-late game mechanic and were trying to put something else in place. What on earth could compensate for all that mid-late game mechanic?

They added a guaranteed slow to starcall and a momentary movement speed boost if you land it.

That's it.

Of course, by how the game works, having an guaranteed slow on early game with a 5 seconds cooldown skill that also give you life back sky rocked her win rate. She could now combo better her equinox and had a lot of fighting potential she didn't had.

Talking about how that feel to the player it's really straight forward. You spam starcalls and see if you win. That's it. I have thousands and thousands of games, and everyone that play Soraka mainly on challenger/master agree with me on the forced spamming lane phase she have.

I don't agree with the claim that say that now she need to "think more" some seconds ahead. You just press it when you have the chance of doing so and that's it. Also it's the opposite, after you get items you stop using it because it turns into suicide to use it because of the landing time and how the risk are higher than the rewards of it. Most of the times you use it it's in a fight anyone would be able to use anything [vi engaging your adc and situations like that].

The benefits of it are so high early game and so low close to mid game that i never, in thousands and thousands of matches, i never saw anyone flashing that to avoid Soraka to receive it's benefits in a fight. TL.DR, no strategy. Just use it when you can.

Here are some quotes from a guy that got master this year playing only soraka on NA [Ambushes] that support what i am saying:

"First, I think Soraka is incredibly OP right now. She procs Spellthiefs better than Coin. Soraka spam's Q like crazy in lane, and you actually rack up gold pretty well. Compare this to coin, where you rarely have the lane pressure to pick up all the coins. She also doesn't really need the mana either. Spamming starcalls it's always the best strategy"

https://www.reddit.com/r/SorakaMains/comments/69ipgg/just_hit_master_playing_soraka_my_thoughts_on_the/

So, do you have preposed changes that would make her not Namified but more healthy? Nami is designed as a champ that needs to interact with the opponents, so technically Namified is a gameplay health compliment... except it's Soraka not Nami so it's not what we want. Do keep in mind that every time they tweak/rework Soraka without getting it "right" Soraka mains are forced to re-learn their champion. It doesn't send a good message to the playerbase, so it's not something you want to keep happening.

Yes i do! Here is a link!

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/o8AmK9Ap-can-we-have-a-little-rework-on-soraka?comment=00020000

Top changes would be: Starcall have higher CD [maybe around 10 seconds] but get low [back to around 5] IF YOU LAND IT. [forcing people to land starcall right and allowing outplays flashing it] Starcall now fall like Xerath W, from the sky. Starcall have better range and same landing time does not matter what range you throw it. Starcall start with a very low ap and base rate on her rejuvenation, but permanently increase both if you auto attack enemies. This effect gets disabled for 10 seconds for each minion Soraka farms. [i like how lux, xerath and ziggs need to auto attack to trigger something and give window to people to exploit that. The idea is that, sorakas that auto attack in lane would have a much stronger mid-late game with a powerful rejuvenation while Sorakas that decide to play passive will suffer. Also it creates some cool counter picks like cait and karma to this mechanic and give a good reward to make soraka interact with leona, blitz, thresh etc]. Starcall provide vision for more time where it lands. Equinox become a longer range projectile that when lands creates the silence/binding field. The first target hit get slowed. Rejuvenation can not be passed anymore. Rejuvenation starts really low at lower levels. Wish [R] give GW penetration as you level it up, up to 100% at level 16. Passive: Soraka's decrease her casting times as it level it up.

It stacks with Spirit Visage, Masteries and any heal/shield power items she has. It's actually very powerful, Soraka just don't actively "see it" as the Soraka since once she heals the ally she's not usually staring at them since she's looking at the whole battle. If you have replays you should watch them to see.

I played her enough through enough years and saw enough replays to completely disagree with that. You most of the time active this effect on fights where you would win or behave that way [landing starcalls and healing] anyway. The preparation time to be in position, cast starcall, see it falling, land it, see the light from starcall flying to soraka, healing your ally to then see it start to proc a little regen completely cut by GW is just too much on most situations.

Fights that this mechanic gets activated you would play the same way even if the mechanic didn't existed, most of the time. Exception would be the lane phase where you can actively take that in account. Also the amount you regen from your ally is negligible compared to her old base stats from before nerf [what i'm not saying it should be back, but it feel clumsy and a place holder].

Bottom line is, late game [when people deal 2000 damage in a fraction of a second] all this ritual to a low impact effect feel very gimmick. The regen thing should be a way to open a window for assassins to kill soraka, not who she is trying to save.

Siegfriedx11 votes

Yes it's too slow to initiate with; Soraka isn't an initiating champ though. Her Q has the perfect delay as a followup ability, and it hits when used as intended.

You are suppose to use starcall as a mechanic to refill soraka health at the same time you can use it at some degree as an utility for your team. Starcall turns only reliable against low elo players that don't punish the amount of setup you need to invest to try to risk one and on situations you would land anything anyway because people are not focusing on you.

Starcall is too reliable at close distances and too insanely risky at higher distances. It's already almost impossible to land a full range starcall against good players at level 1. When they get full boots and items that boost even further they movement like ludens what make you believe it suddenly turns into a good skill?

Starcall fall and fall even more as the time goes on. It reaches a point that any champion with dash will screw you over for even thinking about using this skill.

The worst part is that even if you manage to avoid all that and land an starcall on that lb that is trying to engage you, you only get an small regen from it, and morello will cut all your healing on your allies for a whole 8 seconds anyway.

Of course, because soraka have this insane lane phase that was given as a trade off for her mid-late game, its easy to not feel that as you will be stronger than your opponent most of the time.

Really? "No reason whatsoever" I can't actually read that with a straight face. ^^"

Riot in the past stated that her casting times are like that since her release and never provided an explanation to why they never modernized it. She is the only character that face 0.5 seconds casting time [that roots her] on all her skills [what don't make a lot of sense to starcall mid-late game for example]. No other character face that so far i know.

Fyi Soraka players care. They care a lot, and they love their champion as any main does. If you have a suggestion for tweaks to her I'm sure many would love to read it, and if it's awesome maybe they'll mull it over. However, tweaking her for the sake of tweaks is wrong.

I am a Soraka player. I care. Maybe i was too dramatic but i would rather have a champion that i feel it's well represented and feel right [this potential support that can play out and shine on mid-late game if played well] than this early game monstrosity that you can shut down at any moment buying GW.

Right now i feel that at some point Riot just decided to give up on her identity and make her stronger in a way that she would not be in highlight. As long as GW is easy to buy and she can't do much mid-late game, that she would not be a problem.

I love Soraka. I really do. I know that it can be a pain in the ass for riot to go over and over the same champion again and again, but what do i do when the champion i love most suddenly was put in the shelf to give place to a Nami prototype? I never wanted that and now it's more than 2 years from that change and nothing was done still.

I don't want her to be like that forever, that's why i wanted to know if riot really is interested in feedback on that sense or if they are ok with how she is right now.

LostFr0st2 votes

O wow. Wasn't expecting this. Really happy I poked you about a bunch of the stuff now. Not going to address each of your counterpoints in this comment, but know that I've read all of it a few times now and I appreciate you writing it. It puts a lot of your original discussion into perspective, so thank you.

I'm going to post a separate comment in the other thread you linked that has the changes. (It'll simultaneously bump it too) There's a few tweak questions needed that occur to me immediately when reading it, but I'll need to read through it a few more times before I post about the specific stuff.

I'll also try to do my best to take what you wrote above into consideration when making suggestions.


About what you wrote above: Find a way to compress it into maybe 6~ish core sentences and post it either in Meddler's gameplay post (he'll probably make one some time this week) or in the chat with playtest post that happens every patch day.

In both cases well-written / thought-out posts usually get a response.

You could also poke Reav3 if you'd rather do that. He's been commenting on this post lately: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/oEQjpqZK-leagues-next-vg-reworks-need-to-be-very-interesting-reworks-like-warwicks-one?comment=0001000000020002000000090000

chipndip11 votes

Not every champ just needs a "light rework". I think something needs to be done with just how much Soraka emphasizes healing over...any other function in the game at all, honesty. Even if she's the best healer...she does NOTHING else. Her power budget is spread horribly.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

This post would get more attention if you proposed some changes and asked for feedback. I have rarely seen a Rioter get very involved in a thread like this, so as long as this is your strategy, I wouldn't expect to hear from one.

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