"Steel Tempest (Q) duration for stacks of steel tempest lowered from 10 to 6 seconds."
&
"Sweeping Blade (E) cooldown changed from 0.5/0.4/0.3/0.2/0.1 to 1/0.75/0.5/0.25/0."
EDIT: I understand the context and reasoning behind the Q nerf. However, I do not understand why Riot is nerfing the E again, and would like more context and information as to why its being nerfed (again).
Torgal4 votesEvery Yasuo nerf are deserved, no context needed.
waiting for WoW3 votesBoth changes were long overdue and I have m7 yas on this account.
There is no reason why a Yas player should be able to abuse his E to both engage, evade, and escape in lane. It completely made Yas a braindead champion because anyone could just abuse his mobility in lane to safely farm. Yas still gets all his mobility, just not in lane and that is more than fair.
Deftsuo1 votesBoth changes were long overdue and I have m7 yas on this account.
There is no reason why a Yas player should be able to abuse his E to both engage, evade, and escape in lane. It completely made Yas a braindead champion because anyone could just abuse his mobility in lane to safely farm. Yas still gets all his mobility, just not in lane and that is more than fair.
I think the E was meant to be that way. Riot nerfed the stacks and damage on it some time ago, but now the cooldown? I'd be content if we could get 4 stacks, but have less damage and a longer initial cooldown. Or even more damage, 2 stacks, but a longer initial cooldown. Rather, we don't get any of those. If this nerf goes through, the E will stack twice, have a long initial cooldown, and lack the ability to stack the E and enhance the damage by more than 50%.
Boomerangbro2 votesNow he can't go into most melee matchups and instantly zone them from farm by holding on to a tornado for 10 seconds. It actually lets toplaners be toplaners instead of having to play the game like theyre up against a quinn. They can now have more time to farm without him dashing aimlessly and with him zoning them from farm for too long.
Deftsuo1 votesNow he can't go into most melee matchups and instantly zone them from farm by holding on to a tornado for 10 seconds. It actually lets toplaners be toplaners instead of having to play the game like theyre up against a quinn. They can now have more time to farm without him dashing aimlessly and with him zoning them from farm for too long.
The Q nerf I understand, thats been long overdue. However, the E nerf is the one that gets me. Not sure why they'd nerf that ability again. Riot is sending mixed signals in what a Yasuo should be maxing. Prior nerf enforced Q max, whereas this nerf enforces E max. Need more context from Riot.
Deftsuo1 votesNow he can't go into most melee matchups and instantly zone them from farm by holding on to a tornado for 10 seconds. It actually lets toplaners be toplaners instead of having to play the game like theyre up against a quinn. They can now have more time to farm without him dashing aimlessly and with him zoning them from farm for too long.
Definitely, the Q nerf was the easier of the 2 in terms of understanding why Riot is nerfing it. I'd really love more context from Riot on the E nerf. I understand yasuo's banrate in relation to the future 10 bans system, but I'd rather they release nerfs slowly rather than in a quick manner to fully understand the impacts. We've got a decent amount of time before 10 bans is implemented into solo queue.
Zero Skill Tank1 votesThis has nothing to do with 10 bans, Yasuo got way, way too strong with AD item changes. They need to hit him somewhere, but they don't want to hit his damage because that would ruin mid Yasuo. Those nerfs will make him less abusive over melee champions on top.
Deftsuo1 votesThis has nothing to do with 10 bans, Yasuo got way, way too strong with AD item changes. They need to hit him somewhere, but they don't want to hit his damage because that would ruin mid Yasuo. Those nerfs will make him less abusive over melee champions on top.
I still don't believe increasing the E cooldown by that much is needed. The Q nerf was overdue, but increasing the time in between dash casts early on isn't the right path. More so because its double the CD rank 1, and isn't even as functional as it is now until rank 3-5. I'd rather they shave power off somewhere else, his E has been hit in the past. It's a mobility spell, and now they are reducing its early effectiveness, even though its not that over-powered early on anyway.. in my opinion.
DrCyanide1 votesLooks like an attempt to increase counterplay against him. Might be because they're worried that in his current state he'd be permabanned if 10 bans rolled out today, so they're making some counterplay adjustments now to make him less likely to wind up there. As always, if he's too weak afterwards, he'll probably get some other buff.
Doctor Jarvis1 votesHere's context: Yasuo is not OP, but when he's in the game you have to play around him in a way that isn't fun, isn't rewarding, and doesn't even work because he can just kill your (probably dumb) teammates. Playing against Yasuo is a grind with no assurances of victory forthcoming. These changes decrease his window of power from "seriously, I can do my tornado whenever" to "I better use my tornado soon, or else."
Deftsuo1 votes[{quoted}](name=Doctor Jarvis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HgehlQqX,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-05-18T04:36:50.789+0000)
Here's context: Yasuo is not OP, but when he's in the game you have to play around him in a way that isn't fun, isn't rewarding, and doesn't even work because he can just kill your (probably dumb) teammates. Playing against Yasuo is a grind with no assurances of victory forthcoming. These changes decrease his window of power from "seriously, I can do my tornado whenever" to "I better use my tornado soon, or else."
Yeah the Q nerf is fine, the E nerf doesn't make sense to me (I explained why in another comment.)
dunder kill1 votesSure.
In 7.9 crit items got buffed (specifically Zeal and IE prices lowered) which was an indirect buff to Yasuo
Also in 7.9 the tank class update happened which shifted defenses more towards resistances while nerfing the armor pen on BC and LW to compensate. The % armor pen on Yasuo's ult was unchanged however which was yet another buff
What do you know, also in 7.9 they change GA to include 40 AD which makes it fantastic on Yasuo who picked up an early GA anyway.
Add all these up and it pushed Yasuo over the edge. His win rate spiked by 3-4% (depending on which site you use) in one patch with no direct changes at all.
Deftsuo1 votesSure.
In 7.9 crit items got buffed (specifically Zeal and IE prices lowered) which was an indirect buff to Yasuo
Also in 7.9 the tank class update happened which shifted defenses more towards resistances while nerfing the armor pen on BC and LW to compensate. The % armor pen on Yasuo's ult was unchanged however which was yet another buff
What do you know, also in 7.9 they change GA to include 40 AD which makes it fantastic on Yasuo who picked up an early GA anyway.
Add all these up and it pushed Yasuo over the edge. His win rate spiked by 3-4% (depending on which site you use) in one patch with no direct changes at all.
Yeah the price drop of zeal/IE is an indirect buff to Yasuo among other changes, no questioning that statement. However, what is the purpose of nerfing E by the double the cooldown at early ranks? Shaving some power off of his Q makes sense, but why nerf the E damage-wise a few patches ago, and now nerf the cooldown as well? Riot has or will have taken 2 things (there have been other nerfs in the past, but these 2 are important) from his E in the past: amount of stacks (4->2), the damage (by a decent amount) and now an increase in cooldown by nearly double at early ranks. Riot has made it clear E is a mobility spell (and it still is) but isn't nerfing the cooldown early taking away a little too much power and mobility from his early-mid game? Also, Riot is sending mixed signals on what a Yasuo should max. For example, by nerfing the E damage a few patches ago, it enforced that most Yasuo's should max Q. However, now it appears we will have to max E again first in order to obtain our current levels of mobility. So what is the purpose/reasoning/logic behind this E nerf now after nerfing it a few patches ago? thats my main question. I never felt his early mobility was the problem; and that the damage nerf from some patches ago put him in line with most other champions. Is 100g off zeal really making his E that problematic early? For reference, my focus is pre-level 9, where most Yasuo's only have PD/Shiv, boots, and maybe an IE component or two.
dunder kill1 votesbut isn't nerfing the cooldown early taking away a little too much power and mobility from his early-mid game?
Yeah I think thats kinda the point. Yasuo scales far too hard too quickly to justify how strong his early game actually is. He bullies a lot of matchups outside of like Renek/Darius which is out of line with his hyperscaling nature.
I never felt his early mobility was the problem
A lot ofpeople would disagree. He is the most mobile champion in the game when it comes to the laning phase
Deftsuo2 votesYeah I think thats kinda the point. Yasuo scales far too hard too quickly to justify how strong his early game actually is. He bullies a lot of matchups outside of like Renek/Darius which is out of line with his hyperscaling nature.
A lot ofpeople would disagree. He is the most mobile champion in the game when it comes to the laning phase
A large portion of the top-lane match-ups aren't that swayed in Yasuo's favor imo. A good Yasuo can certain tip the scale if they know what they're doing, and maybe nerfs are needed. From my perspective, I didn't think he was that out of line. People that know how to play against him can either out-pressure or sustain the lane to get farm and levels, so the bullying aspect that people so often mention is nullified. I might be biased since I main the champion, but that's my view on it. Granted, Riot has to balance the game for all players, so maybe this nerfs are justified in that regard, but I still disagree with them personally.
As for your second point, my argument isn't whether he is the most mobile champion or not, my argument is that his early mobility isn't the problem and isn't what is making him so dominate on this current patch. Cheaper build path, can easily stack fervor, and has good lane pressure with Q harass would be the first few I'd list. A lot of Yasuo's max Q first now anyway after the E damage nerf a few patches ago. I'd argue he cheaper build-path and dominate Q harass with fervor stacks is what is making him strong, and while the mobility helps enhance those other characteristics of his kit, it in itself isn't that unhealthy.
dunder kill1 votesA good Yasuo can certain tip the scale if they know what they're doing
Well thats a problem by itself. The thing with high skill cap champions is that the experience of your opponent on the champis completely out of your control. Its how Yasuo got his 'feeds on my team, God on the enemy team' meme
hotarse1 votesOh My GAD DOUBLE THE COOLDOWN at rank one. SOUNDS TERRIBLE... till you see that it's a .5 second addition at rank one, and decreases every rank thereafter. Yasuo is currently one of the best performing top laners right now, despite being banned like hell. The champ is still broken. .5 seconds to a dash is going to put him in the trash?
Good one. 2 second flat across all ranks it what it should be, and still that sounds dirty to me.
Deftsuo1 votesOh My GAD DOUBLE THE COOLDOWN at rank one. SOUNDS TERRIBLE... till you see that it's a .5 second addition at rank one, and decreases every rank thereafter. Yasuo is currently one of the best performing top laners right now, despite being banned like hell. The champ is still broken. .5 seconds to a dash is going to put him in the trash?
Good one. 2 second flat across all ranks it what it should be, and still that sounds dirty to me.
I've never said it was terrible or awful. I just want clarification for why they are choosing to nerf his E (again). I played a little bit on the PBE practice tool and it doesn't feel great early (which I guess is the purpose) but I felt as if his E was already fairly balanced after the damage nerfs a few patches ago. I find it hard to believe his E is the source of the problems he has (If he is even that problematic, but that's a debate for another day) and that shifting that much power from it early to post-level 9 isn't the best way to go about it, especially after the prior damage nerfs. I'd like to here some input from Riot on why they are choosing to nerf his E (again).
OurLestrade1 votesDon't you usually max E on Yasuo in lane? Cooldown's probably to hit that a bit.
Power Of Syndra1 votesWell deserved Yasuo nerfs! PRAISE!
Schenix1 votesNo need to downvote them just for asking an honest question.
Yasuo has always had clear weaknesses and strengths, being healthy or not is another issue and this isn't aimed at that. It won't make you feel any better playing against him and he won't feel any better to play.
Certainly a valid question as to both: "Why now?" and "Why the E now?"
Deftsuo2 votesNo need to downvote them just for asking an honest question.
Yasuo has always had clear weaknesses and strengths, being healthy or not is another issue and this isn't aimed at that. It won't make you feel any better playing against him and he won't feel any better to play.
Certainly a valid question as to both: "Why now?" and "Why the E now?"
Appreciate this comment, I just want answers to the questions I have lol.
AD champs only1 votesI used to main Yasuo. And i will tell you. Nothing in Yasuo's kit is problem but his mobility. When i lane against him, i find his mobility too much. I can hold double crit. I can hold hard CC. I can hold high dmg-armor shred ult. But i cant hold mobility. League has gone too far in terms of mobility. The problem with Yasuo top is, without a doubt his superior mobility to any of toplaners. Armor shred is not a big problem since he gets it only on crits. Yes, he gets 100% crit, but he wont get it while he is in the laning phase (he will, if he is braindead and goes PD + cloak, which will leave him at 85-90 AD since every good Yasuo will use a 29% AS rune setup. Thus his crits with his ult would deal 150-200 dmg max). But reworking his E totally and removing it's mobility would be a huge nerf on Yasuo and it would put him out of meta. We dont want it, since there are too much trash champions rn. As i said before, this game has gone too far in mobility creep. Either reworking mobility on every single champ (which won't happen never or not soon) or giving his E static cooldown(meaning removing target cooldown, and instead giving E cooldown with 5-6 seconds) would make him healthly(er).
Anags1 votesI would say it makes so yasuo can't win trades as easily early by just doing a drive by in the enemy creep wave. Now when you use it the opponent has a little more time to respond.
It's not like it doesn't make sense. And 1 second isnt what I would really call much of a cooldown.