ATTENTION: All Zilean "supports"

WrÆth·Jul 7, 2016·47 votes·6,299 views

Please, for the love of God and everything holy, stop building the midlane zilean build. It's for your own good. As a support you need a gold income item, and the midlane build does not have one, putting you very far behind in gold. To switch the midlane build to the support build, at the top of the tab of the default build in the shop it should say "midlane". Click that tab and switch it to support and pat yourself on the back, because you are doing the community as a whole a favor.

91 Comments

TheOvermindJul 7, 201614 votes

250k mastery zilean main here. Use this build : item 2301 item 3158 item 3060 item 3742 item 3003 item 3157 or item 3001 (depending on situation)

300+ ap 100+ resistances lots of hp full cdr, lots of utility , Lo of mana , banner is op , enjoy freelo , thank me later.

khorneyJul 7, 20162 votes

i dont take boots and i do no ttake archangel staff nor banner of command. ap/ss item, sorc shoes, zekes harold, moronom, ludens, and void staffor deathcap

TheOvermindJul 7, 20169 votes

Way too squishy way too high a hold investment , risky. You will never complete 3 items before the game is over, and you will end up ulting youself all the time because of how squishy you are. Remember you are plying support not mid lane . Need utility over damage.

khorneyJul 7, 20162 votes

i complete my build on 85% of my games so i have no idea what your talking about. your right my ult bringing u back to full is wrong...............................i rarely die over 4 deatsh a game so again no tsure what your talkign about

DavarrilJul 7, 20165 votes

I really wish you would learn grammar

Weasel KenseiJul 7, 20167 votes

{quoted}

i complete my build on 85% of my games so i have no idea what your talking about. your right my ult bringing u back to full is wrong...............................i rarely die over 4 deatsh a game so again no tsure what your talkign about

Reads what seems like arrogant & preposterous claims, notices they cant manage the SHIFT key to capitalize stuff, looks at match history:

First you DO NOT COMPLETE your build in 85% of your games, your match history filtered by Zilean instantly shows that you dont complete your build in 15% of your games.

Zilean games: (note I didnt count matches less than 20 min) 7/7/16 - 2/3/10 KDA loss 7/7/16 - 3/1/0 KDA loss 7/7/16 - 5/4/13 KDA loss 7/6/16 - 0/0/15 KDA win 7/5/16 - 6/4/8 KDA win 7/5/16 - 2/6/4 KDA loss 7/5/16 - 3/2/18 KDA win

Thats about where the "Rarely die over 4 deaths" part ends, past that you pretty much die 4 OR MORE times in most matches. Also your win % on him looks like less than 50%, meaning that you seem to be hurting your team more than not playing Zilean. I'm not trying to call you bad, but for real it seems like youre trying every match to build a super squishy AP build.

Have you considered building some AP+HP items ever? It may help. I find item 3116 is pretty good on him despite the delayed slow on his bombs with it.

Honestly your match history with him is really polarized, you do really well, or do bad. That is how a support trying to build into an AP carry usually goes though. You get snowballing, or you get nothing. Trying the same build constantly against all opponents tends to do that to you also.

At least youre building a sight stone, so there is that.

Honestly I think you could do much better than you are if you built more reactivly instead of trying to go full AP carry every match. Maybe a Zrot, or RCS, or even a Solari would be a good item. I think lack of flexibility hurt you in some of those matches.

OK, I criticized you and called you out on false statements, initiate your rage upon me.... I'm ready.

khorneyJul 7, 20161 votes

my build is just 4 items and i reach that...... i build the ap ss item becuase there isnt much of a diff in gettign that or getting frost queens ... 25 ap doesnt do much more me having to build that then ss.... and i dont build that becuase it doesnt do anything for me ive tried and lost doing that. 2nd thing is its not my fault that adc was beyond trash or teemo goign ad agasint panth top..... i rarly do bad on him as you so kindly point out.....

SeenanJul 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

. i build the ap ss item becuase there isnt much of a diff in gettign that or getting frost queens ... 25 ap doesnt do much more me having to build that then ss....

25ap

Seriously, you're not getting the point.

khorneyJul 7, 20161 votes

It's inefficient as well ... adding that miniscule damage to take a item slot to build ruby ss is stupid to me....

5000000000000000Jul 7, 20162 votes

Frost Queen's Claim vs Eye of the Watchers isn't the issue here. The issue is that you're going for squishy AP build like a midlaner with a lot of gold, when you should be building utility (CDR, mana/mana regen, team buff actives, movespeed, tankiness, etc.).

Your job as mid lane Zilean is to do tons of damage to the enemy and protect yourself, and maybe your other carries. Your job as a support Zilean is to land stuns on the enemy team, speed up your carries, slow enemies, and ult your carries when they're about to go down. Your AP build doesn't help you do that.

Damage support works well when you're ahead, but not when you're behind or even. Seenan is saying that you should build like a support when you're not ahead. If you're ahead, build however much AP you want. Even build a Mejai's if you want. But if you're not ahead, you should be providing your team with utility, not insignificant magic damage.

khorneyJul 7, 20161 votes

lets see i do not die often and wtf are you talking about me building ap doesnt help my team..... my ap build does help me do that. i reach 40% cdr with out trying ... so anything your saying is wrong but okay, reason people usually dive me as zil, im more of a threat becuase blitz grabs adc i stun them both no one dies.... blitz grabs me i will die becase the adc cant do anything to save me .,....... meijas is a waste it gives me nothing. i know how to stun zone and speed/slow.....

Weasel KenseiJul 8, 20162 votes

{quoted}

lets see i do not die often and wtf are you talking about me building ap doesnt help my team.....

No one said you building ap doesnt help your team... reading comprehension, try some.

Building it all the time every game always no matter what anywhere anytime AP AP AP AP AP AP LALALA I CANT HEAR YOU IM BUILDING AP... isnt always the answer.

Thats what was said to you.

IT ISNT ALWAYS THE BEST

Any further discussion with someone whos thoughts are so set in stone would be pointless, though I leave you with this.

A single solution solves one problem every time, for other problems you need new solutions... good luck with problems your one solution wont solve.

ForeverLaxxJul 8, 20162 votes

Reminds me of my friend that used to play way back in Season 1. Would always build Malady on Master Yi and Bloodrazor on Warwick, despite all the math showing that each was a trap item holding him back. He was convinced that he was building correctly and everyone else was just an idiot.

Weasel KenseiJul 7, 20161 votes

Yeah, 50000ooo... guy gets it, KHORNEY maybe listen to him a bit. I build item 2301 on several supports, but on others I know I need a item 3092 .

Those arnt the issue, I build item 2301 on Zil too, need the slot efficiency.

I tend towards something more like: item 2301 item 3116 item 3158 item 3165 item 3040 and in that last slot I build whatever is needed for adaptation.

Some good items that can always help the team:

item 3512 item 3143 item 3060 item 3001 item 3190 item 3022 item 3110

All of those have different reasons to be played by a support, and help your team over helping you.

Ever built a frozen mallet and permaslowed an enemy champ while speeding up your team? Thats support, and that frozen mallet slow is the same weather I have 100 or 500 AP, and in the right situation, my team is happy I have it.

Enemy team has no good split pushers? Build a Zz'Rot and force them lot lose a tower eventualy or for them to break off someone to deal with it.

Frozen heart, enemy team has a Yi, Xin, Trist comp? Frozen Heart saves your team a ton of damage with the ATK speed slow.

Enemy team has 4 AP champs? Time for the Iron Solari. Your team has 4 AP champs? Time for the Abys. Scepter.

They all have ways to help your team, and they require you to see the advantage you can create for your team with them.

Sometimes a single item with the intent to support your team can be worth twice the damage you could deal in a team fight.

Lastly, yeah, sometimes that last item is a item 3089 because we need more damage to close out the teamfights in our favor, but not every match needs a deathcap.

HopFroggerJul 7, 20162 votes

So basically you build a sighstone and then go full midlane. :P

Weasel KenseiJul 8, 20161 votes

You must not play mid much... Moro sure its good for mana, CDR, and of course AP for ratios. Common for both. I built Athenes in the past for CDR MR mana sustain, but the item changes make no sense for Zil to build it.

Many mids would be building a Deathcap... notice how that wasnt a necesary item for me. Huge difference from how a mid laner would build.

Also a mid Zileans would almost certainly build a Ludens instead of an RCS because of the aditional burst based on AP scaling.

A mid laner would probably also build Sorcerer shoes, not Ion. boots. Or if they did they would probably sell them for sorc shoes at some point.

Not even close to a typical mid laner build except Moros.

Sooo... no, not a ss then full AP mid lane. Id say nice try... but it wasnt. Not sure what you were attempting to say, but your post was stupid.

BradenWoAJul 8, 20161 votes

You also are in the middle of a 6 game losing streak on zilean.

khorneyJul 8, 20161 votes

k and me losing has nothign to do with me. team chases for kills not pushes and adc rushes runaans and dorans blade and wonders why they do no damag ,,,,,

BradenWoAJul 8, 20161 votes

Maybe a better attitude would get you somewhere buddy.

WrÆthJul 7, 201612 votes

I think you are confused, I'm not looking for a build, I'm telling Zilean supports to stop building midland build, AKA Dorans first item.

TheOvermindJul 7, 201613 votes

Yes and I'm giving every zilean player the best zilean build there is. Don't mind me.

ShinjusukeJul 7, 20162 votes

how can we not mind the OVERmind?

plz explain, dick stuck in toaster

RoodToobJul 8, 20161 votes

Instructions unclear : built a Toaster

Maël BernardJul 7, 20161 votes

Hello i'm beginning with Zilean (only 60k) is Zeke's Harbinger a good item on him and why Dead Man's Plate is that good ( mobility ? tanking ?) also if I have cdr runes can I go mercury boots ?

TheOvermindJul 8, 20162 votes

Zekes is not As a cost effiecient item anymore, I used to build it but then they nerfed it and it became kind of meh. You get dead mans for your own protection and tankiness of course but most importantly the speed. You need to keep up with allies you speed up and also navigate and ward around the map as fast as possible. Frankly I also use heavy cdr runes and I use swifties instead of cdr boots. Mercs are definitely a viable option especially if the enemy team has a lot of Aoe cc ( sejuani, sion, Morgana, fiddle, amumu , veigar, Annie etc ) otherwise just stick to swiftiies for even more movement speed

Samflash3Jul 7, 20161 votes

Sadly, Deadman chest damage doesn't apply on ranged.

Samflash3Jul 7, 20161 votes

Oh and I wonder what would happen if you catalyst instead of tear? I mean "INFINITE SUSTAIN"

5000000000000000Jul 7, 20161 votes

Dead Man's Plate is useful on ranged champions who don't autoattack a lot, because they don't lose the movement speed. Randuin's, Sunfire, and Thornmail all require you to be in the AA range of the enemy ADC, or the frontline. Since Zilean is a mage support, that doesn't work that well. Ohmwrecker is... ohmwrecker. I guess alternatives to the armor could be Frozen Heart, Zz'Rot Portal, or Zeke's Harbinger. None of them is particularly bad on Zilean, I think. DMP may just be the best of those four.

HayRossJul 7, 20161 votes

Why would you ever build dead man's plate on a ranged champion?

TurquoiseYoshiJul 8, 20162 votes

Gotta go fast

HayRossJul 8, 20161 votes

That is a good point

TheOvermindJul 8, 20161 votes

Yep that's exactly right. I want to keep up with allies I speed up without having got cast anymspeedups on me

The Blue RajahJul 8, 20161 votes

Seraph's? When do you buy it? Do you buy a tear in lane? Before or after sight stone?

TheOvermindJul 8, 20161 votes

Ye I buy a tear early. I rush tier 1 boots , upgrade spelthieves edge to next tier , get a sightstone and a tear.

Eternal 7 Jul 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

250k mastery zilean main here. Use this build : or (depending on situation)

300+ ap 100+ resistances lots of hp full cdr, lots of utility , Lo of mana , banner is op , enjoy freelo , thank me later.

I have 1mill 200 thousand mastery :^D)))) , my builds normally summoner 3 summoner 14

Boots banner zekes coin item 3158 item 3060 or item 3190 ,
item 3050 or item 3222 depending on who my adc and the enemy team is
item 3069 or item 3092 , although im loving the new coin since update item 2045 , annnd item 3742 or item 3512 not in that order but yeah .... o3o i like a tanky zilean

TheOvermindJul 8, 20161 votes

It's great isn't it ? also you don't use flash ? I actually wanted to try the new coin with ruby ss as of 6.13 but haven't been playing much. All in all coin is better on zilean because he doesn't get as much tribute gold from frost queens as other supports do. It's just that you give up a lot of damage from bombs and autos with coin. I really want to reach 1mil mastery with him! Also do u know about the perms stun trick with him ? It's a pretty advanced Zil Trick, which allows him to lockdown targets for good or even 1v1 immobile threats .

OtakuGamingJul 8, 20161 votes

yo mate. Zilean is a ranged champ. DMP doesnt work on any ranged champs. Waste of gold in other words. 250k main should have noticed that once in a while. Dont youthink?

TheOvermindJul 8, 20161 votes

So young so naive.... Listen to the old man here , I want to go as fast as possible on zilean to keep up with allies that I speed up so I can speed em up some more or drop bombs on em. I also want some defensive stats specifically armor since I get mr from banner. Now which item gives me all that ? Hmmm I thought so. Next time read some of the comments before you Rush to insult someone.

k wìxJul 8, 20161 votes

Got some questions -

1.) what order do you build your items, generally? Warding Item vs Tear? which first? I try to sustain myself with pinks. I feel like the Tear is critical to winning lane and sustaining with bombs.

2.) Why Dead Mans Plate? Is it just the best defensive item in the game or what?

3.) I don't really get Banner of Command - I know its a bit underrated, i'll have to try it a few games and figure out why its so good.

4.) Surprised to see CDR boots vs Pen Boots, but they have been buffed recently, and CDR is absolutely critical on Z. I generally go for a Frozen Heart or Spirit Vasage? Do i need to change this up?

Thanks bunches. [slayer-jinx-catface]

TheOvermindJul 9, 20161 votes

I don't like delaying the sight stone too much but in general I get tear first because it's important to stack it fast. My and my adc warding totems plus my pinks are more than enough vision early game. When rotatotions start and mid game is on you better have that sighstone though.

I would pick any of the hp+ armor items on zil but since I favour movement speed so much and the other passives are inferior to the movement speed buff on zil I get dead mans (gotta go fast )

I actually get swifties (or mercs sometimes) as my main boot choice I just recommended cdr boots here so that people can cap cdr on zil. I dunno what runes you guys run but I use 10 % flat and 10% scaling cdr, so I don't need the cdr boots. I like your frozen heart, the spirit visage not so much. Try abyssal instead if you need extra mr.

Banner is like my favorite support item. You put so much pressure on the map with it it's not even funny. I actually brought my team back from sure defeat in a game once when we were loosing hard and the enemies were sieging non stop. They then realized that that bannered up minion was at their inhibitor.

R FLASH XDJul 7, 20161 votes

item 3092 item 3174 item 3165 item 3003 item 3020 item 3089 is what i use.Spam all day lol.I doubt anyone builds this mid lane or anywhere so i'm not using the mid lane build

5000000000000000Jul 7, 20164 votes

Why Athene's? Zilean has only one heal in his kit.

R FLASH XDJul 8, 20161 votes

Just for the cdr and mana regen

WaterTribeJul 8, 20161 votes

Morello?

100AP Unlimited mana GW 20 CDR

R FLASH XDJul 8, 20161 votes

But I want even more!

WaterTribeJul 8, 20161 votes

I mean substitute Grail for Morello. Morello is far superior in every single way to Grail except for MR and the MR isn't something to jump around for (the healing passive won't affect you).

item 3092 or item 2301 (both have same AP) - item 3165 - item 3158 (40%CDR done) - item 3003 - item 3089 - item 3027 or item 3135 . ROA for loads of AP and mana which will make your archangel mana AP ratio insanely high so I think Archangels will give you 170 AP in total with this build OR Void staff if you want penetration.

R FLASH XDJul 8, 20161 votes

"I mean substitute Grail for Morello" I buy them both.And I'm not a fan of cdr boots.The build I showed is a goofy build btw.Just some dumb sh1t I like to do when I actually play zilean

WaterTribeJul 8, 20161 votes

CDR boots are like amazing boots that get you CDR as quickly as possible (which makes laning so much easier), but if you really hate them just have 10% cdr in runes and get sorcerers.

But dude grail is a terrible item if you aren't a healer or shielder, it has 40AP and poor mana regen you are wasting an item slot.

With your build you have 50% CDR so one of those items definitely has to go (most likely grail because you need morello and a gold item). You shouldn't have any mana issues with morello and tear, I would be surprised if you even lose half your mana bar considering Morello restores % mana on kills and assists.

It is human nature to be stubborn and not accept other peoples opinions which is fine but just try the build I suggested, at least once xD? See if you like it.

Weasel KenseiJul 8, 20161 votes

Yeah? Why Athenes?

You would probably get a lot better result replacing Athenes and FQC with a Ludens and a Lich Bane/Void Staff.

But mostly why Athenes?