Skip to content

32 Comments

Michael7028 votes

Matchmaker isn't fair. Yes, both teams have the same MMR but that doesn't mean the teams are fair. Here is an example from my plat promos:

Team A = 100 Top = 20 Mid = 15 (gold 3) Jun = 20 Bot = 20 Sup = 25

Team B = 100 Top = 20 Mid = 25 (plat 2) Jun = 20 Bot = 20 Sup = 15

As you can see, both teams have the same total MMR but B team has the advantage. Their plat 2 Katarina destroyed our gold 3 Orianna and then our nexus. I strongly believe Riot needs to do away with MMR and just match people +/- 1 of their division.

AP Amumu Main4 votes

{quoted}

Matchmaker isn't fair. Yes, both teams have the same MMR but that doesn't mean the teams are fair. Here is an example from my plat promos:

Team A = 100 Top = 20 Mid = 15 (gold 3) Jun = 20 Bot = 20 Sup = 25

Team B = 100 Top = 20 Mid = 25 (plat 2) Jun = 20 Bot = 20 Sup = 15

As you can see, both teams have the same total MMR but B team has the advantage. Their plat 2 Katarina destroyed our gold 3 Orianna and then our nexus. I strongly believe Riot needs to do away with MMR and just match people +/- 1 of their division.

1000% agree and for flex do something easy fix

If bronze you can queue with silver - silver with bronze and gold, plat with gold and plat and diamond, etc but make it so once u invite ur plat friend u cannot invite ur bronze friend for the purpose of that game or we/

DeathBurst1 votes

That's already the case. I checked it again yesterday, since I'm in Gold and two friends of mine are in Silver and Bronze. The guy in Silver can't invite the other 2, so we have to go in Normals every time we're online all 3 at the same time.

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

Question is what do you expect from flex q? Ofc flex is ranking you with your FLEX RANK and not your soloQ rank?

PhDs Nuts3 votes

{quoted}

Matchmaker isn't fair. Yes, both teams have the same MMR but that doesn't mean the teams are fair. Here is an example from my plat promos:

The teams don't have the same MMR though. It's 1677 vs 1990.

Michael7021 votes

I meant ~

DeathBurst2 votes

The problem you talk about is very real, but the solution you propose would do absolutely nothing about it.

Your problem is matching skills evenly lane by lane. This is hard to do, unless people all have the same skills, because you can't know in advance who will go in what lane, but if everyone has the same skills, it doesn't matter who goes where, you can be sure people fighting each others will have the same skills too.

So what you propose is "let's put only people from +/- 1 division", thinking that should ensure all people having roughly the same skills. But that's wrong. MMR is a more accurate measure of one's skills than division, and the match-making already tries to get players all with the same skills. When that's not the case, it's because there are not enough players from the same skill online looking for a game.

Michael7021 votes

but the game does know who will go in what lane.

And rank would be a very good measure of skill if MMR wasn't used to create games.

DeathBurst1 votes

No, not with certainty. Swaps still happen very regularly, especially in Flex (where the screenshot in OP comes from).

Michael7021 votes

Either way, it wouldn't matter who gets what lane if everybody is +/- 1 division. As it is now, a plat 2 can fight a gold 3. How the hell is that fair?!

DeathBurst1 votes

I was Gold5 at the end of previous season. I'm Gold5 again now. When the season was reset, I was placed in Bronze2. Would you really want me to be matched against real people from Bronze2? That would be unfair. It's much better to use MMR than Division, and while I climbed back up to Gold, I was matched against other people from high Silver / low Gold, even if we were most of us officially in Bronze/Silver at the time.

So why is a Plat 2 matched against a Gold 3? Maybe the Gold3 is still climbing back to his real Ranking. Maybe the Plat 2 is on a big losing streak. Maybe there was simply not enough people in the queue and the match-maker was forced to widen the skill range to manage to find enough people to make a match. Maybe a bit of everything.

BUT! What's important is that it's still better to use MMR than Division. Division is purposefully inaccurate, to provide a sense of progression over the course of a season. On the other hand, MMR is as accurate as possible, because it's sole and only purpose is to measure your skills. Why the hell would you want to use the inaccurate bullshit over the stuff made expressly as a tool for what you want?

Michael7021 votes

Please see my example. That's why.

Any game that has a ladder with a season reset is going to see unfair matches at the beginning of the season. I'd much rather have that than unfair matches all season long.

DeathBurst1 votes

Using Division would NOT GET YOU FAIRER MATCHES. Your example has nothing to do with using Division or MMR.

Your "numbers" are only here to represent the skills of the players, the real skills. In order to get the best match possible, you want the match-making to use the best, most accurate measure of your skills available, and you want it to group 10 people as close as possible in skills to each other. Can we at least agree on that part? You want the matchmaking to get 10 people as close as possible in skills to each other.

If you agree with that first part, then you CANNOT promote match-making based on Division, because MMR is more accurate than Division, and because you will get a group of 10 people closer in skills by using MMR than you would by using Division.

Michael7021 votes

Aside from people at the beginning of the season finishing their placements and getting to where they really belong and aside from high elo players that make several smurf accounts because they want to pwn noobs, why are you saying people in the same division aren't similarly skilled?

DeathBurst1 votes

Because it's May and I still have plenty of people in my friend list who are very far from where they were last season, just because they didn't took time to grind the Ranked ladder. Because new players join and start to climb at any point in the year. Because we now have 2 Ranked Queues and so even less time to grind and reach our "true" Ranking in each Q.

But more importantly, even assuming people in the same division happen to be similarly skilled by chance, why bother using Division, when the sole purpose of MMR, the reason it was created in the first place, is to be a measure of your skills? You have one stuff (Division) that is here for progression, bragging rights, rewards, etc., polluted by Promo Series and all that stuff. And then you have a precise technique (MMR) that is used only for a single, clean purpose: measuring your skills. Why in hell would you want to use Division?

Michael7021 votes

You're absolutely right. We should keep doing what we're doing. It's been working fine so far.

DeathBurst1 votes

It's absolutely not what I said. If you go back to my very first post, what I actually said is:

The problem you talk about is very real, but the solution you propose would do absolutely nothing about it.

We need to find a solution, but we need to find a GOOD solution. Doing something just for the sake of doing something but with no real effect, or even a negative effect in the end is just stupid.

Michael7021 votes

I think the ladder, once fixed, would be a very good representation of skill and can be used for matchmaking purposes.

But if you want to keep using the current MMR system, at least make sure each lane is similar and not just team totals.

But none of this matters because I'm beginning to suspect Riot likes lopsided games.

CrazFight 4 votes

Why is it when i made a post like this i got -3 downvotes :( Man I love the boards :(

junglerboy167 votes

Really depends on whether or not the A-holes and trolls see your thread before the normal boards users.

Snowplosion4 votes

It's. a flex game, dude. It doesn't take into account Solo rank like that. Unless that is your flex rank. In that case Rip you.

Troll for Trump2 votes

Maybe it shows their solo mmr/rank, which isnt' the same as flex mmr/rank?

Revan Sedai2 votes

The Panth is Plat 5 in Flex, the Graves is Gold 3, and the Lucian is Unranked in flex. Flex MMR is independent of Solo/Duo, I occasionally see Diamonds in my Flex games also, they are just low Silver usually in Flex. I'm sure Riot could do something to fix that issue, I just dunno what it is. Flex seems to just give people the option to Smurf without having a second account.

A Bad Nasus1 votes

This is exactly why flex queue isn't taken seriously lol. It is still pretty bad sometimes in solo though... especially when on a winstreak.

69469238DEL11 votes

Git gud

Kosm1K1 votes

that's a DRASTIC change in overall MMR, wtf

Myrmiron1 votes

Let me contribute: http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170505/qyml6nt7.png Surprisingly we didn't win. XD

Moonfall Saber1 votes

I believe riot tries to keep people at a 50% win rate. If you look caitlin has a 52% win rate and ia the highest elo. Matchmaking probably put them on that team to purposely lose just because of the hidden elo numbers. Rank in general is bullshit. It is not based on your own skill but the 50% chance that you win due to Matchmaking.

DeathBurst3 votes

tl;dr: No they don't tries to keep people at 50%. They try to match people evenly, which leads naturally to a 50% winrate, which is completely different, because if you play against people the same level as you, you should win half the time.


Long version:

The system forcing you to 50% winrate is a myth. The goal of matchmaking is to put you at 50%, but that is not how it actually performs the matching. It simply tries to match you against opponents (and teammates) of the same level as you, so you should naturally win 50% of the time.

All this misunderstanding comes from the fact that matchmaking doesn't actually know your true level of skills, it just has your ELO as the best information available. If you get a win streak and you get your ELO higher than your real skills, the matchmaking will give you matches too hard for you and you will lose, but that's fair, because you actually deserve to lose ELO.

And the system most definitely does NOT gives you bad teammates to force you to lose! Just try to see the situation from the point of you of every player. Because in your scenario there are three kinds of players (you, unfairly screwed; your bad team; the good enemy team) but for the system there is only one kind of players: those it has to match in order to create a game.

If it wanted to force a loss on you because you had won "too much", who does it put in the "bad team" with you? People from lower ELOs that are at 50% winrate? But why would it punish those players and give them a free loss? And who's gonna be in the "good team"? Because these lucky guys just got handed a free win. Who does the system should give this free win too?

Whatever way your turn it over, it just doesn't make any sense.

arcinex1 votes

It's Flex queue.

doiminat0r36001 votes

MMR and Ranking are differnet. Someone that has won a lot of games has a higher MMR while people who lost a lot of games has a lower MMR than that rank's average.

Just so happens that it appears to be that your team had a higher MMR than average and the enemy team had a lower MMR than average. Rank has almost nothing to do with who you get matched with.

Riot fixed the matchmaking about 8 months ago so you wouldn't get paired with people out of 2 devisions than you. Even with that rule, you shouldn't be with diamonds when you have a silver. That's stupid.

rework trundle1 votes

That's quite funny, it's pretty much all of my norms. I'm gold in both rift queues, yet get against plat and dias literally every game. I just came to the conclusion I need to rank a lot more.

More from Gameplay

More by AP Amumu Main