I seem to have a fobia of ganking top lane as a new jungler because of the tank bruisers. When I first started jungling I always couldn't even get their hp down past half. Any advice on what champions to use that just shreds tanks? Or maybe just tips on how to gank?
I feel useless when I have to gank mid or bottom lane to get ahead when I know that my top laner is struggling and asking for help during the laning phase
ItsOrval3 votes
& 
are the scariest champs for us top laners. Lee ult = youre fucked. Skarner ult = Youre fucked.
Mira Arya Enthe1 votesShyvana. If you take exhaust and chilling smite, gank with Red. It's hilarious to watch overextended top laners squirm.
Sejuani if your top laner always brings damage. As Sej can lock down so well early game and has %HP damage.
aspects11 votesthe scariest top laner for me to gank is 
, esp when he has lv6
Killerjays1 votesHim, Garen, and Mundo are the ones that make me reluctant to gank top, or like hyper carry top laners like Fiora and Riven that also give me trouble
aspects11 votesi find daruis the scariest cause of the reset and passive instant 5 stacks
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votesi typically play 
top and i love it when they come from behind me to gank and i just use my W to the jungler ( creating space between me and the laner) then q on the jungler to slow and knock him back as i walk away. and if they insist on flashing to chase me down ill just ult and for the damage reduction til i get to turret
Mira Arya Enthe1 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H1ue7kvW,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2016-09-09T05:55:00.598+0000)
i typically play
I don't gank from behind these days, too many champions with dashes and flashes to enemy champions that make it better for them. Then again, I don't gank. I just kill the enemy Evelynn or Ekko or Hecarim or Volibear jungler over and over and over.
Funny shit.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesbut by the time you gank with top ill be too tank for you to kill anyways.
and i just might pick 
and just throw my pillar in your face as you ult into lane and ill spam laugh as i walk away on my frozen domain
[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
Mira Arya Enthe1 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H1ue7kvW,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2016-09-09T06:07:05.651+0000)
but by the time you gank with
and i just might pick
[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
Depends, are you overextended? If not, then I will just take your junglers farm, as nobody counter junglers harder than Shyvana. And she can kill the shit out of almost every jungler who tries to stop her.
If yes, then you aren't escaping. I can gank lvl2 if you are overextended. All I need is my red buff and exhaust.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesall i have to say is trumps and as far as counter jungle hmm have you met 
Mira Arya Enthe1 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H1ue7kvW,comment-id=0001000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-09T06:17:02.326+0000)
all i have to say is
Nunu can steal camps well on a cooldown, but doesn't outduel well. Shyvana can steal camps with just her W which has almost no CD. And is known to outduel almost every other jungler in the game even at an item disadvantage.
Trundle does trump Shyvana, as a top laner. He doesn't clear jungle as fast, cannot solo dragons as well, and doesn't counter jungle as hard. He does have slightly better early ganks however. But if I was looking for gank power, I would play my secondary to Shyvana, which is Sejuani.
I have three different Shyvana builds, and all can come from the same runes and masteries. Making her incredibly flexible. since I can go into game with one set of runes and masteries built for clear times, and then branch either into tanky, split push or 'assassin DPS' builds. All of which take Exhaust and Chilling Smite, not flash. Because the goal is to deny the enemy jungler of existing, and to be able to safely split push and dive carries late game.
Nunu also has a lost purpose late game. where as Shyvana shines as a duelist and DPS monster late game.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesplay nunu with attack speed reds, ms quints, armor yellows and cdr blues and start Q go 0-18-12 taking the cdr mastery and buff duration and movement speed and the biscuit masteries with mana regen and i have 13% cdr at lvl 1 and i can out move and out counter jungle anything. oh yeah and take ghost with 15% cdr on summoners
Mira Arya Enthe1 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H1ue7kvW,comment-id=000100000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-09T06:26:10.064+0000)
play nunu with attack speed reds, ms quints, armor yellows and cdr blues and start Q go 0-18-12 taking the cdr mastery and buff duration and movement speed and the biscuit masteries with mana regen and i have 13% cdr at lvl 1 and i can out move and out counter jungle anything. oh yeah and take ghost with 15% cdr on summoners
Until Shyvana shows up having cleared her jungle in record times, then exhausts you, kills you before exhaust ends, and if you flash, just chilling smites to keep up still.
Nunu also has a lost purpose late game. He becomes a snowball factory who buffs his ADC with enrage and that is it. Where as Shyvana is one of the stronger split pushers and great at diving important carries due to her high burst, DPS and still maintaining decent survivability. Meaning she can jump on Lucian and use exhaust, chilling smite as he uses his mobility skills. And kill him quite easily.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 voteslol nunu with 
split push with the runes and masteries as i stated and try to keep up with me as i snow ball your face w myself and have ghost on a 25% cdr. plz try to keep up
Mira Arya Enthe1 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H1ue7kvW,comment-id=00010000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-09T06:34:31.817+0000)
lol nunu with
Nunu is far more successful built tank. Either way he has a terribly low play rate, by that I mean he makes Shyvana's 3% average look high with his .80% average play rate. This is because late game his only purpose is as a snowball machine and buffing his carries DPS and acting as a semi-persistent damage source.
He isn't a bad champion. But he isn't the most successful or frightening thing either. If he is building like that, then I have no concerns about facing him, and will focus on winning essentially a 4v5 game. If he is building tank or AP he would be a concern, but then I could just chase him down and outduel him. Either way, Nunu hasn't scared me since I was an ADC main in S2 and was scared of AP Nunu's early game snowballs.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 voteslol man that is pure tank cdr split push nunu and with his movement speed you would never catch him as shy i have gotten nunu over 400 ms so easily
Mira Arya Enthe1 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H1ue7kvW,comment-id=0001000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-09T06:42:38.559+0000)
lol man that is pure tank cdr split push nunu and with his movement speed you would never catch him as shy i have gotten nunu over 400 ms so easily
400? Is that all? o.0 besides. Shyvana gets exhaust, BotRK, Chilling smite and red buff. So exhaust, into stolen movement speed, with red buff slows and DoT, smite just in case.
That isn't pure tank Nunu. Pure tank Nunu builds for team fights and gets a Frozen Heart, Spirit Visage, Thornmail, Cinderhulk Green smite, Armor or MR boots, other tank item. It's been his primary tank build for 4 patches now.
Again, if Nunu is focused on split pushing, with his low personal power for killing towers, relying only on his enrage and his split push items. I will you know... ignore it and focus on winning a 4v5 game.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesi can aoe wave clear minons with my ult in 3 secs and push with
Mira Arya Enthe1 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H1ue7kvW,comment-id=00010000000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-09-09T06:48:42.252+0000)
i can aoe wave clear minons with my ult in 3 secs and push with
Well if you are burning your ult to clear minions. I have even less to worry about as my team 4v5s your team, then we push as 5 players or take baron. Which outpaces any split pusher.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesso you lose lane pressure to take baron while i am collecting turrets and team gold
and you forget i have 40+ cdr so my ult cd isnt that long.
Mira Arya Enthe1 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H1ue7kvW,comment-id=00010000000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000003,timestamp=2016-09-09T07:02:39.147+0000)
so you lose lane pressure to take baron while i am collecting turrets and team gold
and you forget i have 40+ cdr so my ult cd isnt that long.
Lose lane pressure, after just winning a 4v5 team fight, taking baron. And pushing as 3-5 champions vs 1?
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesyoure assuming my team is gonna fight 4vs5 and that i cant easily get back to baron. if you dont know how to play a split push then yea its an issue but the idea of split push is to create pressure on different areas of the map and in return someone is gonna react to it and then its a 4 vs 4 and a 1 vs 1 or a 1 -3-1 split, or a 1-2-2 split ect. there are lots of ways to pull it off.
Mira Arya Enthe2 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H1ue7kvW,comment-id=00010000000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000005,timestamp=2016-09-09T07:10:48.414+0000)
youre assuming my team is gonna fight 4vs5 and that i cant easily get back to baron. if you dont know how to play a split push then yea its an issue but the idea of split push is to create pressure on different areas of the map and in return someone is gonna react to it and then its a 4 vs 4 and a 1 vs 1 or a 1 -3-1 split, or a 1-2-2 split ect. there are lots of ways to pull it off.
I play with a premade team. We communicate. If one guy without teleport is split pushing, we group up and force a fight. Win said fight, then bother with sending 1-2 people to handle him while the rest flatten the base.
Forcing fights is easy even with randoms though. You just have to have the guts to initiate and tell them you are going to. If you make that clear, they usually follow up. And once a team fight starts, that build is not very good compared to tank Nunu. Split push works with top laners because they have teleport. Otherwise it is often a mistake to split push late game, as fights are so easily forced without high tier communication.
I'm not saying your build wouldn't work. I'm just saying, it's not the optimal Nunu build. And that Nunu is not a magical counter jungler. He is a good counter jungler. But since S1 and even currently with Shyvana on free week. People have often asked how it is fair that a very fast champion, can have high DPS, high burst, high tankiness, clear jungle faster than almost anybody else from lvl 1, out duel all other junglers, take some of the earliest dragons and still be a late game team fight and split push monster. Is fair. Usually because they were counter jungled by Shyvana.
Now this isn't a problem in high levels of play, where she doesn't perform as well. Because they know how to ward, how to have lanes help stop counter jungling, how to deal with split pushing tactics, how to stop early dragons and how to counter Shyvana's clear time by focusing on map vision and ganks. But Nunu also doesn't fair well in high levels of play... currently. Both are out of the meta. Due to several factors, mostly jungle changes and masteries. But partially newer champions. But in terms of counter jungling, until Plat 1 there is still not much of a better counter jungler and clear times than Shyvana. And despite popular belief she CAN gank and exert lane pressure. They added this thing called chilling smite, so you can get in range to apply red buff. On top of that a number of Shyvana mains take exhaust instead of flash, due to her short CD leap ult.
Even in Diamond however, she is still considered one of the best jungler clearing champions and best counter jungler duelists in the game. She isn't picked much, because the meta favors people that have more solid ganks. Like Hec, Gragas, Sejuani, Gragas, Kha'zix, Gragas, vi, Gragas and Elise. But Nunu is also not favored. Neither is Udyr or Warwick, and many of the other jungle duelists. Because the game is more snowball orientated now, rather than control orientated. And early team fights and ganks have become far more important. Jungle duelists don't gain and push advantages as well as they use to. Trundle himself has a lower playrate in jungle than Shyvana, so does Trynd, Olaf and Quinn. Because the idea of outplaying, counter jungling and dominating control of the jungle. Is now more of a team effort, than a solo goal. Except in niche situations. Most of these champions have homes besides the jungle however, the exceptions are Udyr and Shyvana, they kits do not work well in lanes. They would be better if Bloodrazor wasn't a shit item. Which is why I get Warrior on Shyvana if going damage, as it has more early advantages, the 4% max HP damage isn't very effective early game, and is only good against tanks late game. While 60AD is 60 damage on hit all game vs all targets, that can lifesteal, crit and also increases my W damage both on hit and AoE. Plus the 50% attack speed is compensated by 10% CDR which means more Q's more W's, meaning R up more often and up longer. Faster clear times. More escape and chase with W. Otherwise I go Cinderhulk if going Tanky for any reason.
Because of the shift in meta and shitty bloodrazor. These champions aren't seeing much play. But in the preseason, they are nerfing armor pen, reducing slows in the game and working on how OP ADCs are. Which will make bruisers, tanks and jungle duelists more viable again. Because they won't be slowed and DPS'd into oblivion as easily. Also hybrid damage will gain value again, people like Kayle, Shyvana, Jax and Udyr do mixed damage. So armor pen isn't good on them. This is an armor pen meta. They cannot take advantage of that and have somewhat suffered. Except Kayle, but her passive handles that mostly. And her lane power and late game hyper carry is insane.
But in the end. Despite all that. If you ask a pro player, high tier player or knowledge guru "What does Shyvana do well?" They would say(and have said) counter jungling, clear times, early dragons, late game AoE damage, split pushing.
If you asked what she was bad at they would say(and have said) early game ganks and getting kited.
So my statement holds true, that this is her value. She kills things fast, she dies slow herself. She is an excellent tool for her team's success. And all around a good champion. Just misplaced in a terrible meta for her design.
As for my original statement. Suggesting to the OP to play Shyvana if they are afraid of ganking top. That is because with red and chilling and/or exhaust. She can destroy overextended top laners. She has the dueling power. And can force a flash quite easily. If they are not overextended, she has other purposes.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 voteslol wow , just wow. did it take this long to make this reply? im impressed. really.
[zombie-brand-clap] [zombie-brand-clap] [zombie-brand-clap]
Darius Bøt1 votesAny jungler with lock down cc or a lot of burst early. If you can set that top laner behind early they become a constantly gankable target. Personally I like Xin Zhao for his early lvl 2-3 ganks.
The Aqualious1 votesTips
#1: Grab Raptor Buff before you go for your ganks, if the path is warded, you will know and be able to rid of the ward and figure out a new way of ganking
#2: The best time to gank is...
A: If they've extend past the river, and are pushing into tower
B: If they're around the middle of the lane and your allies going in Hot, someones gonna pick up that kill
#3: Prioritize lanes to gank with Problem Champions, if your allies are against an Illaoi Top, or a Yasuo or an Ekko, or a shit match up in general for them, you want to visit as much as you can, pitch your tent their, farm when you can, but make that laners life HELL
That being said if you have an enemy laner who is spamming in all chat... Prioritize them instead, they're not fully focused on the match and it's a great way to tilt someone
CHAMP RECOMMENDATIONS
If you're wanting to deal with Top Lane tanks
1: Ap Junglers (Evelyn is a great option) Tanks usual first item isn't for MR (unless they are against Teemo and are smart) therefore, you can be a bitch in the early game
And no one remembers pink wards so you are good to go
Start ganking either at lvl 2 or 3 when possible
2: Tank Champs (Olaf, Cho, Mao, Sej)
Fight fire with Fire
Cho, Mao and Sej main sources of Damage are all magic, and have some lovely cc options to help out
Olaf is just a bitch to fight and his E deals true damage so he's something good
Anything else?
Killerjays1 votesThose are nice tips, I will remember look at the map more often so that will help with my confidence. I should probably stop this ingrained thought in my head that tells me if I don't get a gank, then I failed the mission.
I've also gotten burned by trying to camp lanes by the enemy support and jg roaming to top lane to gank me.
The Aqualious1 votesA gank is successful if you kill, or burn a summoner spell generally, that being said, just chasing them out of lane so your laner can farm is also a huge help too
As for the roamers, just remember... Vision is key, if you have the green smite tool, use it wisely, if you can sneak and smite the enemy wolf camp, even better
Hell, buy a pink ward yourself and use it