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Why did Fizz need his ultimate to latch onto people he clearly missed.

Yuumi the Mouser··112 votes·5,253 views

I mean, isn't' the point of a skill shot to actually aim and hit your enemy for it to be effective?

I can clearly dodge a fizz ultimate, but it will go past me just a bit reach it's max range, then drop this MASSIVE lux E sized area around it, that if anyone is remotely near it, the ultimate that just missed you will instantly attach to you, and you then suffer the full effect of the max range Fizz ultimate.

This is really bloody obnoxious, why am I being punished for dodging a fizz skill shot, by then being hit by it's super powerful max range strength because I dodged it. Should I just be walking into Fizz's ultimate to make it travel less?

Fizz is already bloody annoying enough as it is, going around, bouncing around, doing a crap ton of damage while being extremely hard to hit. Now he has his ultimate, that gets more excessive in it's effects the longer it gets thrown, that when at max range, just latches onto anyone in the general area, No aiming required.

He really doesn't need this, people were landing his ultimate JUST FINE without this. Why did riot put it in? It's not even that hard of a skill shot to hit.

89 Comments

Chud Bubson39 votes

As a Fizz main, I agree. I like the ult rework, (more reward for more skill) but the hitbox is just inconsistent and somewhat weird. If they nerf it though, he will need something else so he doesn't fall off the face of the earth.

Melledoneus11 votes

Like a shorter W window...

Cosmic Warper6 votes

{quoted}

Like a shorter W window...

2 seconds is way too long even with his E invul. Riot balanced fizz too hard around his ultimate.

nice table1 votes

its pretty cool that he actually has to land a skillshot now.

Melledoneus9 votes

No he doesn't.

Cosmic Warper5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cuck Gore,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GcIlYr3U,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-26T12:20:46.661+0000)

its pretty cool that he actually has to land a skillshot now.

If the enemy is solo it isn't a skillshot... it'a as wide as a lane and nearly impossible to miss a champion. They overloaded his power into his ult reliability and made his new W complete ass if he doesn't use it on his ult target because he has to wait 2s for it to prime (after an auto) if they didn't get hit by the ult.

bbQsauçe2 votes

[deleted]

Cosmic Warper3 votes

[{quoted}](name=bbQ s,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GcIlYr3U,comment-id=000400000000000000010001,timestamp=2016-12-27T00:15:01.609+0000)

Okay the hitbox is pretty big, but this is just plain bullshit, it's not as big as a lane and you can miss it. Play fizz and you'll see.

I play fizz lol. His shark at the absolute max range has close to the width of the edge from the raptor obstacle over to the edge of the other side of the lane...

Blåbæret2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chud Bubson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GcIlYr3U,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-12-26T05:23:35.851+0000)

As a Fizz main, I agree. I like the ult rework, (more reward for more skill) but the hitbox is just inconsistent and somewhat weird. If they nerf it though, he will need something else so he doesn't fall off the face of the earth.

Fizz doesn't need Jack as long as he has an ability that makes up for every and any mistake you make.

falldown0102 votes

[deleted]

Kinky Fizz10 votes

only if ur fed... fizz can't kill his target without e, unless ur maxing w, than e CD will be pretty huge.

falldown0101 votes

well assuming he has items , like lichbane or unless the midlaner is stupid and lets fizz farm

Kinky Fizz12 votes

don't forget he will usually use his e to gapclose, bcz he will always throw his ult from a long distance

Cosmic Warper4 votes

{quoted}

don't forget he will usually use his e to gapclose, bcz he will always throw his ult from a long distance

This is the biggest point to be made. Rot made fizz players almost have to throw a max range shark to kill someone because the ult damage is pitiful if it isn't near max range, and to get into that range fizz has to E over to them and wont even hit them with his E.

Daddy Ants1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chud Bubson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GcIlYr3U,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-12-26T05:23:35.851+0000)

As a Fizz main, I agree. I like the ult rework, (more reward for more skill) but the hitbox is just inconsistent and somewhat weird. If they nerf it though, he will need something else so he doesn't fall off the face of the earth.

lol.

Fixing a broken hitbox will not make a champion fall off.

A Champion should not get buffs for fixing a beneficial bug in their kit, A bug is a bug.

Kinky Fizz4 votes

saying this means you have no clue what is going on...

SweedishGunner16 votes

Pre-update Fizz was a bitch to play against, post-update Fizz feels like even more of a bitch to play against.

rtbf761092713 votes

Thats all in your head then. He is weaker in every way except hitting his ult at max range.

Blåbæret4 votes

{quoted}

Thats all in your head then. He is weaker in every way except hitting his ult at max range.

Lol no.

rtbf761092715 votes

Buffs:

Ult max size is larger. Ult max ap ratio is higher. Ult hitbox grows as it shoots. Q hits everything in a line. W has kill cooldown reset which only is useful for farming

Nerfs:

Needs to wait 2 sec after marking to w means longer window for burst. W goes on cooldown so you cant hit a second champ with it in teamfight. w damage against champs <50% hp significantly reduced compared to the %missing hp. w flat magic damage removed, so it's worse vs turrets and again lower burst. Ult min and medium damage lowered. Ult min and medium size is smaller than old ult. +20% magic damage from his other sources removed from ult. e has visual indicator for his landing aoe.

His play rate is low and his win rate is low. People need to differentiate between things they dont like vs things that are too strong

Pommel Knight11 votes

Because before you actually had a chance at being relevant in mid and late game without it, ult was just extra dmg and dmg boost you got when you hit someone. Now you have to hit it to be able to prock w and not die when you q to do it.

Riot just rushed the fizz rework in the last 2 weeks and made him really bad. Before he had dps with w and an execute with dot, his ult was rewarding for good players to hit and not so punishing as the new one to miss (Meaning you could still kill someone without it). Not to mention he still doesn't have a passive.

As for ult, almost no fizz main likes the thing. The idea was there but the execution isn't. We are forced to hit the max range shark to deal acceptable amount of dmg, small shark deals less dmg than e or w alone. Mid shark is just lackluster and the big shark is just hard to hit all the time because it's a Morgana q speed ult. Believe me the attach radius is working fine, the shark lands when you dodge and the pick up area is a bit bigger then and you are outside of it by a mm. Also Riot said that they don't want the ult to be dodge-able by walking , because that would make the ULT skill-shot useless and would be a reason to buff the shit out of Fizz.

DJMason882 votes

Why don't they buff the missile speed but lower the attach radius then?

rtbf761092712 votes

I think they do not want it hitting champions with flash or a dash in their kit. Since that would mean fizz might get played and they hate fizz. Or at least I assume they do, after what they did to him

coreychichi1 votes

uh if you have a sec can u actually explain how the new w even works. I looked it up but I still dont really understand. w makes fizz's attacks rend the target and bleed, and they have to be bleeding for more thantwo seconds to use w active optimally? So what is the best way if you dont have ult? Q in auto attack wait two seconds then w?

Pommel Knight2 votes

W has a low dmg dot, 85 + 0.33ap dmg rank 5. you apply it with aa or r, q can apply it too because of on hit part of it. After you hit someone you have to wait to sec to deal 255 + 1.0 ap dmg, or do it instant for 85 + 0.33 ap.

The problem here is that fizz, an assassin, can't survive long enough to kill anyone without his ult. Because he is too reliant on it to prock his w before he is killed by pretty much anyone. His q is his gap closer and they way he gets to his target, and e the 1/3 of his dmg and the only way of defense or wait time.

The reason his ult has to be like this is because he cant use the rest of his kit effectively. The only way a Fizz will ever 1vs1 you without ult is if you have no mr and he is really fed. Fizzes kit was also 75% dodge-able, only w wasn't but that was an aa boost. The problem with this is that every assassin has at least one point and click ability that you cant miss, besides braum and yas wall they don't count. Fizz doesn't have this, you can say his q but it deals almost no dmg and can be dodged. His w also doesn't count because it's an aa boost and thus not counted. Take Kata, Zed, Akali they are all mele and have a point and click skill or ranged abilities for others. Fizz only has his shark, which is on 70 sec cdr lvl 3, and that is why he needs the shark to be more reliable and bs.

Is it good design? No. Do non fizz player like it? No. Do Fizz mains like it? No, but we have to rely on it.

coreychichi1 votes

Thanks for your response, I actually didn't know you could dodge fizz's q.

HazyCloud711 votes

The hitbox on his ult is the way it is presently to try and compensate him for the clunky 2 second wait on his W they shoe-horned into his kit.

Kinky Fizz9 votes

the hitbox is big but unclear for players to notice, that's why it seems like a bug. Riot is planing to fix fizz, nerfing his all in and buffing other stuff. so be patient and stop complaining about fizz's ult every day, bcz if fizz doesn't land his ult he's trash.

rtbf761092717 votes

Why did his ult need the +20% magic damage from his other sources removed?

Why does his w require a 2 second wait time to do any damage?

Why was the flat magic damage from his w removed, making him worse vs turrets?

Why did he ult need to do less damage than his e at close range?

Why did they gut my main?? Who gives a shit if his ult latches onto people easily. It could be point and click. Doesnt matter he's ruined

GULAG 4 U6 votes

It's the only reason why fizz isn't pure garbage right now lol

Rebonack5 votes

Because whiffing the fish feels bad.

Yuumi the Mouser13 votes

{quoted}

Because whiffing the fish feels bad.

What feels worse, is dodging the fish.

Then because you dodged, you get hit by a max range fish that is even worse than if you just took it to the face.

Shouldn't be punished for dodging skilshots :\

PrinceOfStorms3 votes

Doesn't even have to be max range. You can sidestep it and it will still hit you - the hitbox is so large you only have to throw it in the enemy's general direction.

The 2nd Horseman5 votes

If you lack a dash you honestly can't dodge the shark from what I've seen, and if you have a dash it better be large and you better move perpendicular

Penta Penguin5 votes

Every skillshot in the game is coded with frames at the very end where the hitbox expands a little bit, i can't explain the logic of that but there you go

However Fizz ult is more like a combined skill shot and AOE area at the end, it's clearly intended

Lux E is harder to dodge

xevi9 votes

Well Lux E doesn't attach to you and get you fucked instantly

Kinky Fizz7 votes

fizz's shark is an ULT lux's E is a simple ability

ULT > simple abilitie

so it's logic the shark will fuk you more than lux's E...

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

Still it shouldn't magically jump on me when i ACTUALLY SIDESTEP IT. You know skill>every ability.

50000000000000002 votes

If Fizz R's max range hitbox slowly increased (from the projectile hitbox to the entire area of effect by the end), would that solve the issue? I think that'll be an overall buff too, possibly.

ABlueQuaker5 votes

Why did Riot even touch Fizz? He'd been fairly healthy since he got nerfed back when Tank Fizz was a thing.

Quinnova3 votes

yeah, you can clearly SEA it doesn't hit you.

Dengeden2 votes

You're ... looks up Fizz release date ... years late to ask this question.

Also, Fizz gets countered by MR and support(item)s.

Sandrahy9 votes

But you can't item 3140 Fizz ult anymore, which includes item 3222 doesn't work for it either... [zombie-nunu-bummed]

And you would have to build a ton of MR which is basically almost impossible unless you are a tank, and then he builds pen and then what? item 3070

Cosmic Warper3 votes

{quoted}

But you can't item 3140 Fizz ult anymore, which includes item 3222 doesn't work for it either... [zombie-nunu-bummed]

And you would have to build a ton of MR which is basically almost impossible unless you are a tank, and then he builds pen and then what? item 3070

They gave fizz more team wide counterplay. a tank can easily eat the shark for you if fizz is throwing it at max range, and if he's on top of your face throwing his ult it does mediocre damage if you have some MR.

rtbf761092714 votes

You cant qss any other mages ENTIRE ULT so why does it matter that you cant qss fizz ult? You are crying about fizz when champs like syndra do more damage at any range with point and click??

Edit: malz isnt a mage he was deleted he is a memory

RocketRelm4 votes

You cant qss any other mages ENTIRE ULT

item 3070 Malzahar item 3070

rtbf761092713 votes

Oh right lol that guy

Sandrahy2 votes

I am aware that there are a few ults you can't QSS anymore.

Like Zed and Fioras ultis. (When they changed QSS)

Fizz ult isn't hard cc before the fish actually JUMPS up. You can QSS the knockup, but lets be real, once that fish attaches to you and you are not a tank or have hourglass.... You are most probably fucked

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