It honestly feels like the old "Support Annie" all over again.
Anytime I'm playing a traditional support against a Brand support, I feel utterly useless.
But brand has a hard stun CC, just like annie, and with his passive and death fire touch, one bloody spell hitting you will burn your health away at a very rapid pace.
Can riot address this? I'm not enjoying this.
BastionKross3 votesThis is what happened to 
back in season 4. Riot nerfed mage supports to the point where actual mages could do their job better. Annie was then nerfed to hell for trying to take the support's job, and left there for quite a while before getting buffed back up. Looks like history is repeating itself with 
, and we all find out what we already suspected: Riot learns nothing from their mistakes.
What they should be doing is buffing up mage supports so that they can actually accomplish something other than feeble pokes and weak heals. Something that is a viable alternative to a tank support instead of just being food for them.
Erockandroll1 votesThis is what happened to
What they should be doing is buffing up mage supports so that they can actually accomplish something other than feeble pokes and weak heals. Something that is a viable alternative to a tank support instead of just being food for them.
You know the problem with that is, Tank supports have too much health. But you can't just buff the poke supports, since that would make them do too much against the ADC's. Riot either needs to tone down the Health of Tank supports, or Poke supports needs a damage source that's more effective against high health targets. (like we really need more %HP damage sources.)
I don't recall Annie getting buffed backed up. But I do remember that they shifted her base damages to her scaling. Which was obviously a nerf to her support abilities. But obviously, if you pick Annie support for her god like engage, they you don't need damage.
I think the problem that Riot is running into is, they want mage supports to be something, other than another source of damage. If that was the case, I would try battle field manipulation. I would think something along the lines of Anivia, except she's too slow, too mana intensive, and still does better when she can farm and get items.
Monstar Energy1 votesburst support>poke support>tank support>burst support if a poke support keeps up the damage, he can keep an enemy tank support/his carry low with a low, but constant dps, low enough so that he doesn't want to go in. a good burst support can punish a poke support for poking by doing a higher dps for a shorter amount of time. and then retreating until their cds are up again, and a tank support can regen and takes less total damage from the cycle of a burst support, while potentially being able to put down low dps to try and even out the trade.
then there are mixes. supports like annie and brand who have burst and poke, have no other means of supporting other than that cc. braum has a shield to negate damage, thresh has a lantern, morg has a black shield, janna has a shield, brand and annie have none of that, just cc and damage that falls off hard if you don't build ap. so yes, brand is a very strong lane bully. but he falls off late like most lane bullies.
Yuumi the Mouser1 votes[{quoted}](name=Monstar Energy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AOzyvnuE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-25T19:09:02.297+0000)
burst support>poke support>tank support>burst support if a poke support keeps up the damage, he can keep an enemy tank support/his carry low with a low, but constant dps, low enough so that he doesn't want to go in. a good burst support can punish a poke support for poking by doing a higher dps for a shorter amount of time. and then retreating until their cds are up again, and a tank support can regen and takes less total damage from the cycle of a burst support, while potentially being able to put down low dps to try and even out the trade.
then there are mixes. supports like annie and brand who have burst and poke, have no other means of supporting other than that cc. braum has a shield to negate damage, thresh has a lantern, morg has a black shield, janna has a shield, brand and annie have none of that, just cc and damage that falls off hard if you don't build ap. so yes, brand is a very strong lane bully. but he falls off late like most lane bullies.
The problem with this, is that "Support Brands" don't build "Support" they typically get a support item, ward well, and just harass and bully the enemy laners, then transition into a mage, but because his base damages, and scaling are pretty par for the course, he gets a fairly strong early game with no early items, and can transition into someone really nasty later on, especially if he gets an early liandries.
Tank supports will get pecked away at by his passive and deathfire touch, but he also has the base damages on his abilities to do ALOT of damage.
For instance, I actually played a Support Brand (easiest way to find a weakness to something is to try it out), even with the enemy Nami healing themselves and their tristana non-stop, and their Kindred ganking bot every other minute, they completely lost lane, and got dominated, my Miss Fortune barely had to do anything besides farm.
I seriously think you are underestimating how much raw damage Brand does in the supporting role.
Blazing Tenshi1 votesYes, plz remove support brand from the game.
SaltyKracka1 votesThey're going to nerf brand, but support brand will need some special attention.
Hayaishi21 votesSupport Brand is the definition of cancer holy shit.
Illâoi Evê Siôn1 votesI enjoy the challenge ^^ But they could tone down his base damage down a little bit.
Yuumi the Mouser1 votesI'd be 100% for Riot moving his base damages into his Ratio's like they did for Annie.
The difference would be that Brand can't just flash ult a clumped group of people for a stun and still be good as support, his single target stun has utility in supporting lane, but he just still goes full mage with a support item.
I feel the ratio shift would actually effect him, because it would cause his damage to be lower with the lack of gold early on.
Monstar Energy1 voteshe has nothing to support with other than his stun and poke. it's the exact same thing as lulu, leona, thresh, annie, taric, etc. just buy health potions and play safe like you should be on every single support and boom you're playing like a decent support and not freaking out over non-op champs.
Yuumi the Mouser3 votes[{quoted}](name=Monstar Energy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AOzyvnuE,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-11-25T18:12:09.329+0000)
he has nothing to support with other than his stun and poke. it's the exact same thing as lulu, leona, thresh, annie, taric, etc. just buy health potions and play safe like you should be on every single support and boom you're playing like a decent support and not freaking out over non-op champs.
The only person I could remotey say has the same amount of "Poke" as Brand, is Annie, and Sona, maybe a really good lulu.
I didn't call him OP, I asked for him to be addressed, because It's frustrating to play against him as a traditional support.
Anorath1 votesWhat most people here aren't getting is for support, you don't need those shields and heals. They don't make SUCH a detrimental change to fights that you MUST have shields/heals. Hell Leona and Naut can't do that for their adcs/teams but they have CC. Annie has the AoE stun which she can build up and AoE stun again with her E or ult w/e's available. On the other hand, Brand has a more fatal form of CC being he builds pure mage exception of the AP/ward item, and proceeds to blow the enemy team up. The only CC he needs is "Half their team is dead you're good" and what's worse is your team hasn't even joined in yet. He just QEWR and hey lookie there, they're all/mostly dead. It's retarded. I used to main Brand back in S3 and part of S4, and he hasn't changed at all, the game has, and it's given him too much with this. He has far too much freedom and I honestly see it as they're going to get rid of his stun which I'd be happy with because he doesn't need it, he has plenty of power, and doesn't need the CC at all, especially at 2 second base stun. Yes it's a skillshot, so what? It's a 2 sec stun, that can happen at lvl 2. I can't think of another off the top of my head that does that without scaling.
Yuumi the Mouser1 votesWhat most people here aren't getting is for support, you don't need those shields and heals. They don't make SUCH a detrimental change to fights that you MUST have shields/heals. Hell Leona and Naut can't do that for their adcs/teams but they have CC. Annie has the AoE stun which she can build up and AoE stun again with her E or ult w/e's available. On the other hand, Brand has a more fatal form of CC being he builds pure mage exception of the AP/ward item, and proceeds to blow the enemy team up. The only CC he needs is "Half their team is dead you're good" and what's worse is your team hasn't even joined in yet. He just QEWR and hey lookie there, they're all/mostly dead. It's retarded. I used to main Brand back in S3 and part of S4, and he hasn't changed at all, the game has, and it's given him too much with this. He has far too much freedom and I honestly see it as they're going to get rid of his stun which I'd be happy with because he doesn't need it, he has plenty of power, and doesn't need the CC at all, especially at 2 second base stun. Yes it's a skillshot, so what? It's a 2 sec stun, that can happen at lvl 2. I can't think of another off the top of my head that does that without scaling.
I didn't even think about the base 2 second stun, I looked it up, it is actually the longest rank 1 stun in the game right now (Some stuns go longer, but are based on other conditions, or require much higher ranks to pull off.
Even sona's ultimate is only 1.5 seconds, Taric never comes up to a 2 second stun either. Lulu's Polymorph gets there after a few ranks though.
ThatH1N11 votesHe is really easy to beat you just have to get up in his face early.
Owltears1 votesThe champs that can do better then him that I had struggled with where on the enemy team: soraka, sona, vayne, ult kog, varus, and tom kent.
Don't know if this'll help you counter him. Sona's heal and range, and sorakas Q where the ones that annoyed me the most as if i had to get close they could pick my hp away little by little