The entire Meta of LoL is based around ADCs

SlntReaper·Nov 8, 2016·73 votes·4,390 views

Everything is balanced around ADCs. Mid laners are meant to shut down and roam bot to stop the ADC from getting fed, supports are supposed to help ~~their braindead ADCs~~ , and Tanks are meant to peel for the front line ~~even though they get deleted with 500+ armor~~. The junglers are meant to either shut down fed ADCs (rengar) or are supposed to provide utility for the ADC (Sej).

Is it bad that the entire meta of a game is balanced around one class?

Edit: The entire point of this thread is to discuss WHETHER it is bad that the game is balanced around only one class, not argue about whether it is or not.

107 Comments

Sahn UzalNov 8, 201639 votes

It was quite mandatory to vote Bacon. But I do agree with you.

5000000000000000Nov 8, 201624 votes

I mean, the game revolves around taking objectives, and the objectives are weak to DPS. Makes sense that the game revolves around ADC.

TBakesNov 8, 201614 votes

^^This.

The meta does not revolve around ADCs. It revolves around taking turrets, inhibs, and nexus, which are weakest against ADCs. Therefore, both teams want to feed their ADC as much as possible. Therefore, both teams draft champs to kill each others' ADCs as much as possible. Therefore, both teams draft a supportive champion that can allow their ADC and ADC-killers to take as many resources as safely as possible.

Unless we take objectives out of the game, or make them strong against AD and weak to AP, then it will stay the same.

Hinagiku33Nov 9, 20168 votes

The issue isn't that Marksman DPS burns down objectives, the issue is that Marksmen are also the single best class for team fights over said objectives.

Assassins don't target Marksmen just because they are a threat to towers but because they are a damage source so high it has to be shut down in less than 2 seconds or your team dies. Then they go on to take said objectives with their amazing team-fight-winning DPS.

Being good at one is fine. Being amazing at both just eclipses other classes in power and importance.

Pierce The VealNov 9, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fiora All Night,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GaGAiA1A,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2016-11-09T03:09:21.311+0000)

The issue isn't that Marksman DPS burns down objectives, the issue is that Marksmen are also the single best class for team fights over said objectives.

Assassins don't target Marksmen just because they are a threat to towers but because they are a damage source so high it has to be shut down in less than 2 seconds or your team dies. Then they go on to take said objectives with their amazing team-fight-winning DPS.

Being good at one is fine. Being amazing at both just eclipses other classes in power and importance.

This.

Not this:

{quoted}

^^This.

The meta does not revolve around ADCs. It revolves around taking turrets, inhibs, and nexus, which are weakest against ADCs. Therefore, both teams want to feed their ADC as much as possible. Therefore, both teams draft champs to kill each others' ADCs as much as possible. Therefore, both teams draft a supportive champion that can allow their ADC and ADC-killers to take as many resources as safely as possible.

Unless we take objectives out of the game, or make them strong against AD and weak to AP, then it will stay the same.

SaiannaNov 9, 20163 votes

and the objectives are weak to DPS.

And why are DPS is the good class at taking objectives?

Cause Rito had not buffed other classes to the ADC level on taking objectives such as structures.

5000000000000000Nov 9, 20161 votes

I mean, they can't be weak to burst, since they have a lot of health... Would you really like the towers to be able to be bursted down?

SaiannaNov 9, 20162 votes

I liked when Heims granade was working against turrets. It was fun mechanic imo.

But I'm talking about magic damage mages have against structures.

It is obviously inferior to ADCs (exceptions are Ziggs & Veigar cause of thier passive).

I know objectives are also Dragon & Baron. But structures-wise Riot was always in favour of ADCs. And now with this assassin Meta they want to gimp Assassins power... Because of ADCs want to keep on building glass cannons.

TheAceofStavesNov 11, 20161 votes

I think Jax begs to differ, seems to take objectives just fine to me. They haven't buffed other classes to do an ADC level physical sustain damage because otherwise ADCs would be useless. ADCs cannot take the hits, and compared to mages, (syndra, cassiopeia, victor especially come to mind) they aren't amazing in teamfights. Also, ADCs are balanced- The best killers (jhin, draven, vayne) aren't that good against objectives.

VisthaNov 9, 20163 votes

No, the game revolves around taking objectives and objectives are weak to physical damage DPS.

Frankly the number of champions with magic DPS that works on objectives other than Baron and Dragon equals to... whole one champion - Diana* - which half of the time doesn't even itemize for it.

* - Since Akali's passive is done for.

5000000000000000Nov 9, 20162 votes

I'm definitely fine with adding items or abilities that allow AP to better damage towers. I think Riot is doing good with Ziggs change. Rite of Ruin would be a good addition, too.

VisthaNov 9, 20162 votes

Well, it's not like they need to add a lot of new ones.

Making already existing abilities work on towers would be good of a start, I'd say.

Purple DeathNov 8, 201614 votes

i had to say bacon I'm sorry I can't resist. [zombie-brand-clap]

MimyNov 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

i had to say bacon I'm sorry I can't resist. [zombie-brand-clap]

Do we actually get bacon? I want some... Can It be Terkey Bacon?

SlntReaperNov 8, 20162 votes

It's amish bacon. sorry if you didnt want it

AckelopeNov 10, 20161 votes

what differentiates amish bacon from not-so-amish bacon? iirc bacon is not a product that requires a lot of higher-tech devices to make, though maybe the version i eat does...

SlntReaperNov 10, 20161 votes

It's thicker.
That's about it.

FishlordNov 9, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Do we actually get bacon? I want some... Can It be Terkey Bacon?

... When you spell Turkey wrong

TheAceofStavesNov 9, 20167 votes

The game is not based around ADCs. Hell, an ADC is best at taking objectives, which is the point of the game, but as it stands, Midlaners are better at killing, and Toplaners and Junglers can do a myriad of things whereas the ADC is not a very versatile, but quite a fragile, potential liability. That's why there is a support. Marksmen are fragile, but important. They need some babysitting. There are very few marksmen who can take care of themselves if they aren't grouped with their team. Teams have to protect the ADC simply due to two realities- -ADCs are the best for killing objectives -ADCs are fragile, and 4v5 teamfights usually go badly.

That's really all there is to it.

SaiannaNov 9, 20162 votes

The game is not based around ADCs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD53hwAN5DY

Hell, an ADC is best at taking objectives,

Cause Riot made them that way.

Why?

Because they wanted them to be most important in team.

Why?

Dunno. Ask Tencent.

VerdadeNov 9, 20162 votes

That's bullsheet. There are mages very good at taking barons/ dragons and mages ruining turrets in 3 hits

SaiannaNov 9, 20162 votes

Some. Some of them.

While any ADC is good at doing stuff like taking structures or killing baron.

SlaktarTaskenNov 9, 20165 votes

I hear a constant outcry about game being about taking objectives, no shit Sherlocks that's why ADC's have always been valued and mandatory even when they were at their weakest and not as utterly fucking absurd as they currently are.

When the classes specifically designed to catch ADC's out and buttravage them (fighters/bruisers/assassins) can't even duel them 1v1 by catching them out, but rather needs to get the drop on them in a game where vision is both free and prevalent, it feels utterly fucking unfair. I remember back in season 3-4-5 when I could catch an adc out as a fighter and I knew that fucker would either burn flash or be dead, provided the adc wasn't fed or I was behind. Now I have to clear wards, walk away or camp, pray they don't bring a friend to reward and clear my own ward, because if they see I'm coming or get the drop on me I have no fucking chance unless I'm retardly fed or the adc is utterly shit because bohoo, ADC, boohooo.

Melee's are already getting completely fazed out in high elo because ADC but ofc with only some 5 melee champs over masters having positive winrates, but what do ADC mains care? They are happy as swine in filth, healthy game balancing means nothing to these people, just being the centre of attention so they can display their skillfull right click machinegun bursts.

Mandang0Nov 9, 20164 votes

It's because ADC's output in the teamfight is the easiest to affect. ADC is the class that is the easiest to kill (unlike fighters/tanks) and that needs to stay alive to deal their damage (unlike assassins/mages). It's healthy that the game focuses so much on the role for that reason, or else we get a game without attractive teamfight objectives. It would either be a bunch of burst making the game determined by fast-twitch reflexes or it'd be a wet noodle fight of tanks.

BlåbæretNov 9, 20163 votes

{quoted}

It's because ADC's output in the teamfight is the easiest to affect. ADC is the class that is the easiest to kill (unlike fighters/tanks) and that needs to stay alive to deal their damage (unlike assassins/mages). It's healthy that the game focuses so much on the role for that reason, or else we get a game without attractive teamfight objectives. It would either be a bunch of burst making the game determined by fast-twitch reflexes or it'd be a wet noodle fight of tanks.

Loving this guy's logic. According to him it's easier to kill a dashing Lucian or a rocket jumping Tristana than Velkoz or any otherb immobile mage. Kk, we hear ya. Don't write crap that's false.

VerdadeNov 9, 20163 votes

VK has almost 3x more range than Lucian tho

OdinakosNov 9, 20161 votes

And 3x aoe. At that range. I dont get why people dont realize that its easier to catch someone dancing at 550 range (Lucian) than the one at 1000 range (Vel). If Vel is at engage range he either misplayed or he is winning the fight and wants to close it.

VerdadeNov 9, 20161 votes

Exactly. Lucian has pitiful 550 range and no CC. Vel'koz has very strong slow on Q, AOE knockup E, AOE slow on R. His Q and R have 1500+ range. Good luck engaging on VK

GhaelWindsNov 9, 20164 votes

You can say that for every role though... league is a game of rock paper scissors

BlåbæretNov 9, 20162 votes

{quoted}

You can say that for every role though... league is a game of rock paper scissors

Really? Provide us with an example, kind sir. Otherwise your post holds no merit.

GhaelWindsNov 9, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Really? Provide us with an example, kind sir. Otherwise your post holds no merit.

Bit dramatic, but take toplane fighters. If they get any sort of lead EVER they will snowball the game extremely into their favour. Because of that midlane has to roam up to them, the jgler has to apply constant pressure. Midgame the support is still supporting that fighter making sure they dont die since they can do more damage than their adc is most situations. The tanks are still peeling for them as much as for the adc.

That same line of thinking goes for mages and anyone else that decides they want to do damage. What you're talking about is the game revolves around damage. in which the answer to that is... Yes. yes it most certainly does.

CookyPrinceNov 9, 20161 votes

It really depends on who gets ahead, if your top laner feeds that kennen he'll most likely make teamfighting impossible and steamroll the entire game, same for jayce, if you just go even you're either protecting the other team from carrying or not doing enough to win lane because laning is pretty important

GhaelWindsNov 9, 20161 votes

exactly, thats why the argument is better suited for Damage and not just ADC

PennsNov 8, 20163 votes

Or the mid laner could gank top, help his jungler get objectives or invade the enemy jungler. Or the support could play a "support" and be a second carry, or play an aggressive support like Leona or Blitz or even Bard and roam early. Or the tanks/bruisers could initiate fights and go for the backline instead of peeling, so... not really.

SlntReaperNov 8, 201613 votes

But bruisers and assassins are meant to kill ADCs in the teamfight. And supports play full offensive stats because their adc is bad. They are all meant to either make up for the ADC or kill it before it kills their team.

PennsNov 8, 20164 votes

Most of them are meant to kill the carries, yeah. But carries can also be mages or squishy top laners that build damage. Overall Id say ranged mages are a bigger problem than adcs atm. I mean, when champs like Syndra and Kennen have a higher (or almost higher) ban rate than champs like Yasuo or Zed, there might be something wrong.

SlntReaperNov 8, 20163 votes

Mages and damage building squishies ( Yasuo ) are ANTI-ADCs. The Syndra? She has 1 skill combo, and THAT'S IT. So she wisely uses it on the ADC because he can do the most damage. The Yasuo top? He's an ADC himself. Everything revolves around ADCs right now.

RossendaleNov 8, 20163 votes

{quoted}

But bruisers and assassins are meant to kill ADCs in the teamfight.

No not really. Bruisers and assassins are supposed to kill high priority targets. Those targets are usually squishy because they're more vulnerable to the damage of the bruiser/assassin but if I'm playing Zed and I can choose between eliminating a 0/6 Vayne or a 7/1 Viktor, who do you think I'm going to go for?

SlntReaperNov 8, 20169 votes

Vayne, because she does true damage, and it doesn't matter at 50min whether you're 0/6, just if you have full build. And by then, the Vayne has farmed enough to be a threat. Hell, one Q and a statikk shyv is dangerous.

dragon1xxNov 8, 20167 votes

Vayne "You thought burst damage was bad? Here let me buy the new item 3147 while I'm at it."

MannnyNov 9, 20163 votes

i voted bacon

SlntReaperNov 9, 20162 votes

Good job.

RebonackNov 9, 20163 votes

Man, sure is too bad there isn't a map anymore where Marksmen are totally optional.

But keep complaining about a problem systemic to Summoner's Rift and I'll just be over here bottling the tears.

PlanetWarwickNov 8, 20162 votes

As a jax jg main, I can say that I don't give a shit about adcs. Fed midlaners maybe, but adcs rely on aas and by the time my e runs out they're already dead. Besides, I split push fast as hell and I backdoored 5 turrets and inhib and nexus while my team was having a delayed ass fight ( I was ahead, they were behind but we had 2 oceans They sent toplaning tryndamere after me without ult, 3 second delete. After I get inhib, they send MF for me. Eq aa w delete

Ariel the CruelNov 8, 20164 votes

You should appreciate this story . . .

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rtcc85nx,comment-id=00260001,timestamp=2016-11-02T00:51:59.542+0000)

That reminds me of a pre-5 game back in the beginning of the season. My team had a protect the kog comp. Enemy team had a mercurial scimitar Jax. He made every team fight unwinnable until we managed to catch him out stealing our red buff. Killed him 5v1 then dropped 3 towers, inhib, nexus, and the rest of his team before he could revive.

We really didn't want to deal with him again. (>_>)

IcyPepperNov 9, 20162 votes

I think we need more tower-destroying tools in either items or champion kits.

Obviously these items would have to sacrifice traditional power for the class in question (like an anti-tower mage tool would not be a 100 AP 20% CDR item) and the like. Maybe more AS+AP items, and anti-tower defensive tank items. Or, if we remove smite buffs, an item that has a passive similar to the Krugs smite buff that buffs aa damage against towers (preferably melee only, to prevent further ADC abuse).