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Should Riot make Kindred more viable with Crit Chance?

Akindled Soul··1 votes·1,738 views

In my honest opinion, I really think this is the worst idea I've ever seen about changes for Kindred .

(TLDR: Kindred was not meant for Crit Chance in the first place. It's because of how the game changed and the massive bombardment of nerfs they received that they are even considering to make Kindred more viable with Crit Chance items. I think Riot needs to try and think of a better way to "buff" or change Kindred that doesn't revolve around a stat that is RNG based.)

(Refer to here about "possible" changes - http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/pzTvkfpU-quick-gameplay-thoughts-feb-22 )

"Is it really that bad to make a champion that is supposed to be an ADC in the "Jungle" more viable with Crit Chance?"

Let's look at Kindred in depth about what makes them bad among the Marksman class.

  • Auto attack range = 500
  • Attack Speed at level 18 = 0.894 compared to the majority of ADCs' Attack Speed at Level 18
  • Movement Speed = 325
  • Rather poor scaling/damage on most of their damaging abilities as the game prolongs

But let's see what makes them good as a Marksman.

  • A passive that gives current HP % damage
  • Great sustained damage via autos because of the passive
  • Rather mobile

Overall, they don't essentially need Crit Chance for damage. However their damage do fall off by quite a bit if the game prolongs too much and/or they do not get sufficient amount of stacks on their passive. One of my concerns if they try to make Kindred more viable with Crit Chance would be giving them a weird gimmick with Crit Chance items considering most people who plays Kindred usually only builds item 3085 , item 3046 , or item 3094. If anything, two out of those three items. Another concern is their power budget being shifted horribly then get unwarranted nerfs or even perhaps out of place changes.

"Are they straying from the design of the champion?"

Mind you, Kindred was released a month BEFORE the Marksmen class overhaul. At this time, item 3085 was a niche item. Only a few could use this rather well, Kindred was one of those few. But ever since the Marksmen class overhaul, this item became a needed Crit Chance item on the majority of ADCs.

Let's talk about what were the intentions of creating Kindred . They were created to fulfill a certain niche in the Jungle which was a Marksman that didn't need so much gold, would not fall off if being beaten down, and somehow make an ADC more team-oriented aside from doing damage.

Did they fulfill those intentions? Obviously, in some ways, yes. In some other ways, no. However, one thing I loved about Kindred when they were released was the fact that they didn't need to build Crit Chance. And the Recommended Items at the time emphasized on that. Sadly though, over time they had received constant nerfs. One after another, making them weaker. But I will say they are still strong if played properly like any other champion. (Refer to here - http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/champions-skins/champion-preview/champion-insights-kindred-eternal-hunters )

Crit Chance has always been argued as a bad mechanic in the game as it's RNG and has some "bad" interactions with certain champions. I'm sure you had moments when you have 30% Crit Chance then somehow out of like 15 autos you did not get a single crit. Meanwhile the enemy also have 30% Crit Chance and miraculously hit all of their autos as crits in a fight. Then we have....the interactions with certain champions and how they amplify the Crit damage to a rather absurd level. Crit chance as a stat is frowned upon because of those moments.

My final opinion about a possible batch of changes to make Kindred more viable with Crit Chance? I fear if they do this, it will honestly obscure what was Kindred before and now.

(To those who think I'm probably over-exaggerating (By the way, I also think that I'm over-exaggerating) I really do think that if they do this, there are problems waiting to be arise.)

If you have any thoughts about this, I would like to hear your opinion on whether or not this is something they should be doing to Kindred .

8 Comments

Lord Malpercio1 votes

Riot screwed Kindred by design. They are Feast/Famine, and it's done in such an extreme (%HP Damage), that her passive alone eats nearly her entire power budget.

B00B001 votes

your building crit? dude, just no, not on kindered, you do not buy Runaans as a core for the crit.

Akindled Soul1 votes

{quoted}

your building crit? dude, just no, not on kindered, you do not buy Runaans as a core for the crit.

I'm pretty sure from reading this, you had not even bothered reading the discussion.

ArnoldSchwarzens1 votes

I feel like the new BotRK on the PBE with its extra life steal and AD combined with Hurricane will make for a clean transition from on-hit to crit: item 3006 item 1419 item 3153 item 3085 item 3031 item 3036 Thoughts?

AgeOfTheMage1 votes

I mean, there are tons of ways you can build kindred, i prefer mobi's over berserkers though, helps me reach my marks faster, I tend to build tanky but sometimes if i'm in the mood i'll go for full lethality, increasing the damage from my passive. I do sometimes build ruunans for the waveclear.

Pnakotic1 votes

the cost is to high and the new botrk doesn't fit them ...

Spârky1 votes

They just need to make it so all of their power does not rely on them getting 5 or so stacks. If they dont get stacks they fall of so hard.

Kitsunes Lust1 votes

old kindred build that i used: item 1419 item 3006 item 3153 item 3071 item 3812 item 3124

@ 10-15 stacks

solo slain baron and elder solo 5v1 pentakill almost full team of tanks ( Chogath, Zac ,Zed , Caitlyn , Braum )

can new kindred do this? no. not even close at all and there's no crit items in this, but i could shread the fuck out of anybody, and have about 53.5% current HP bonus physical damage per second. yes,53.5%. THIS is why i love old kindred. shes not a crit ADCs. she is more an AS and AD based champion. Crit ADCs are more leaned towards jhin and caitlyn. Old Kindred was more so leaned like twitch, kog'maw, or jinx aka hyper carries. Old Kindred was a scaling hyper carry who CAN get in your face and fuck you over. And with the fact that new kindred was made during the crit meta, she was reworked to revolve around crit, and have a tristianna passive. oh yeah. did i mention, it was also conveniently at the SAME time hyper tanks were in meta? SO. Do the math. with the 60% current HP. lets take a 5500 HP cho. in 1 second, she can deal around 275+ AD X 2 (since with this build you have 2.03 AS) + 60% of 5500, which is 3,300 HP leading you to deal 3,850 HP in that 1 second, or 2 AA, on top of that, you got black cleaver, and Guinsoos Rageblade, and with both maxed out, that 3850 can do so much more damage in a matter of aaaabout 3 seconds. So the first second you deal about 1000 AD against that tanky af cho'gath assuming he has tons of armor, and in 3 seconds, he loses 30% armor, making your attacks do sooo much more. So yeah.

Also, how i got around 53.5%. this is only theoretical, since i figured it out litterally 4 hours before she got reworked, and it could be off:

  1. with 15 stacks max, she gains 18.75% current HP as bonus physical damage
  2. Enchantment: Bloodrazor deals 4% of their MAX HP as bonus physical damage
  3. BoRK does 8% of the opponets current HP as bonus physical damage A) add that up, that's 26.75% of current HP + 4% of max HP
  4. toss guinsoos rageblade in there. Now here is where the fun comes in A) with guinsoos rageblade, at 6 stacks, you will be at 2.48 AS, since your base AS is 2.03 with this build B) and at 6 stacks, you activate guinsoos rage, which states every OTHER AA activates on-hit effects an additional time, and im pretty sure 1,2,3 are on-hit effects i believe idk C) with this being said AND you having about 2.48 AS, that every other AA, activates 1, 2, AND 3 every second again D) so if i am correct, i'm probably wrong, I) her passive will become 18.75% X 2 (or 1.5 idk XD) per second, II) Bloodrazor will become 4% X 2 (or 1.5) per second III) BoRK will become 8% X 2 (or 1.5) per second IV) math, assuming im correct (which i doubt lol) (18.75X2)=37.5+8=45.5+8=around 53.5 and adding in the 30% armor shread too.

This might sound really dumb, but it was something i made off the top of my head and my calculations are probably really wrong. But i tried this build. yes, this is a late game build, but when it works, you can stand there get in their face and spam the shit out of right click and heal the fuck up and kill all the tanks that are in meta. New kindred CAN NOT do this. She has to hide behind her allies and depend on a useless wolf. Hell, i saw the new kindred played ONCE in pro play. he went 0/1/2, and as soon as he used is W and E, he backed off, because he cannot do any damage without W and E. This is why i personally do not like critdred. crit in jungle cannot work at all, and with her new passive being trists passive, it makes hunts only desirably if you wanna be a chicken and stay in the backline like the sassy schoolgirls wanting to pick a fight, but is really being a whimp, but her friends are blocking her. That's what new kindred is, stay in the backline and use your allies as a meat sheild while you use your useless distance, which btw, in solo Que, let's be honest, a whole lot of team fights end up less than 300 units. on top of that, at the 15 stacks with her new passive, congrats, you got ashe range. Wanna outrange turrets? ok! just politely ask your enemies to allow you to hunt them until you get a impossible 35 stacks. New kindred is similar to jhin and caitlyn. old kindred is similar to jinx, twitch, tristianna and kog'maw which, btw, are classified as HYPER CARRIES. caitlyn and jhin have damage yes, but they rely the fuck on crit and being behind their allies. if they fail to do both, they are immediatly dead because they need that distance and allies because they cannot be fast enough to do quick damage, hence why AS is so hugely important on ADCs. i was really upset over this update. i made her so fucking strong. but riot ruined it. she can't jungle no more. she's an adc now, because of her playstyle is now like jhin and caitlyns, but even then she needs hunts! so if she goes bot lane, she heavily relies on being fed as fuck, which is not likely to happen as well. Also, critdred can be stopped with some armor. old kindred with this build essentially makes armor non-existent

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