Im pretty sure its mostly Lethality thats making him the way he is but we all know riot wont revert or fix lethality anytime soon, this patch was a joke. But at least.... AT LEAST nerf talons wall jumping. Like seriously what kind of cheese is that.
Korijenkins8 votesThe wall jumping is actually really bad. It has a short range and a long cd early that will only go down later in the game. In lane he really only has 2 abilities to use against you pre-6.
Shaydrox1 votesThough his passive is technically an entire damage skill, but I agree fully that his walljumping is far from problematic. Yes he's potentially very mobile, but in lane he's not and it's not like LB which is a completely ungankable champion if she plays decently.
feryvunny2 votesHis passive is entirely a damage skill because his E offers absolutely 0 in-combat benefits. Every other assassin at least has all 4 damaging abilities if not some kind of steroid + passive damage.
AHeroNamedHawke7 votesHis win rate dropped 3-5% (depending on the source) the moment 7.4 hit, Lethality was the only issue
I'm not sure how people are still having trouble with melee mids cheesing them at level 2 after years of 
, but you actually have to respect some of your opponents early game. Stand back and let Talon get his 12 cs, his combo falls off because it leaves him open to a full rotation 100% of the time
Once you have some actual base HP and the rest of your abilities even a banana slug can out trade or avoid his all in
Craft Zeppelin1 votes[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GOeqVEbn,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-02-27T09:18:40.651+0000)
His win rate dropped 3-5% (depending on the source) the moment 7.4 hit, Lethality was the only issue
I'm not sure how people are still having trouble with melee mids cheesing them at level 2 after years of
Once you have some actual base HP and the rest of your abilities even a banana slug can out trade or avoid his all in
Bu his winrate on korea was like 58%. 3% wont do jack crap to it.
AHeroNamedHawke3 votes[{quoted}](name=Craft Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GOeqVEbn,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-02-27T10:13:10.815+0000)
Bu his winrate on korea was like 58%. 3% wont do jack crap to it.
It dropped to 51.7% according to op.gg in korea
I'm pretty sure that statistic was an outlier for his top laning only, which is now 52.7%
feryvunny2 votes[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GOeqVEbn,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-02-27T09:18:40.651+0000)
His win rate dropped 3-5% (depending on the source) the moment 7.4 hit, Lethality was the only issue
I'm not sure how people are still having trouble with melee mids cheesing them at level 2 after years of
Once you have some actual base HP and the rest of your abilities even a banana slug can out trade or avoid his all in
Preach lol. Literally the best thing you can do is play a game of Talon or two and get a feel for the champ.
I play a lot of Talon so whenever I go up against one its stupid easy to mess with the enemy Talon. I know exactly when he's going to throw the W, I bait it out and force a trade.
ChaddyFantome1 votesPreach lol. Literally the best thing you can do is play a game of Talon or two and get a feel for the champ.
I play a lot of Talon so whenever I go up against one its stupid easy to mess with the enemy Talon. I know exactly when he's going to throw the W, I bait it out and force a trade.
Damn str8. i have legit never lost to a Talon in lane. All the complaints to me seem more to stem from the influx of Talon players making it to where more people are facing him and thus are complaining because they aren't used to seeing him at all and don't know how to handle him.
Maddened King 1 votesWhich is true, his power spike is 2 and 6. However, the problem is he can keep chunking you with the simple combo. It isn't because of Talon but Lethality that is making him super strong. Zed is way more ridiculous than Talon in my opinion. Lethality items are too offensive and provide too much utility.
feryvunny1 votes[{quoted}](name= Maddened King ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GOeqVEbn,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2017-02-27T17:53:29.652+0000)
Which is true, his power spike is 2 and 6. However, the problem is he can keep chunking you with the simple combo. It isn't because of Talon but Lethality that is making him super strong. Zed is way more ridiculous than Talon in my opinion. Lethality items are too offensive and provide too much utility.
He can chunk you with that "simple combo" only if you let him. People fail to realize that. Zed is going to chunk you over and over from range, but only if you let him. LB is going to chunk you over and over, but only if you let her land her chain. Kat is going to chunk you over and over, but only if you don't know how to position. IMO, Talon has the most binary and easily dodged combo of all the other assassins. Of course he's going to chunk you, if you're a brainless potato that eats his rakes.
I do agree on Lethality though. I want them to tone that down before they start handing out the nerf bat to all the other champions.
Maddened King 2 votes"only if you let him," in a magical world where no one makes mistakes. Of course, he is going to get those through. The problem is when those pokes are allowed to go through, they do way 2 much damage because of lethality. But yes, I am not saying those champions are overpowered, I just think lethality and the utility are too strong. Talon's level 2 could get a nerf, and Katarina's level 3. But all-in-all I think they are fine.
RexSaur2 votesIts not lethality, hes killing ppl before he even has a dirk.
His Q in melee and passive does too much damage, basically as a melee champ you have to zone yourself starting lvl 2 or he'll 100-20 + ignite and aas and kill you.
Sett up 4my gank3 votesIts not lethality, hes killing ppl before he even has a dirk.
His Q in melee and passive does too much damage, basically as a melee champ you have to zone yourself starting lvl 2 or he'll 100-20 + ignite and aas and kill you.
Or avoid the back hit on his W so he can't get his passive proc, Or trade when his W is down, or when he Q's a minion or many many other things.
RexSaur2 votesOr avoid the back hit on his W so he can't get his passive proc, Or trade when his W is down, or when he Q's a minion or many many other things.
Why is talon forced to waste his Q/W on minions and then walk up to trade? Any smart player will just last hit with autos and zone or if he uses W to waveclear he'll just trade with Q aa in melee and walk away or he'll just back off before W is on CD again.
Yes its easy to beat a bad player playing talon, now if hes smart theres not a lot you can do about it, theres a reason talon TOP has a massive win rate, he pretty much auto wins vs melee if he has a clue.
feryvunny1 votesYes its easy to beat a bad player playing talon, now if hes smart theres not a lot you can do about it, theres a reason talon TOP has a massive win rate, he pretty much auto wins vs melee if he has a clue.
Idk I mean if you're constantly picking shit like Riven and Yasuo of course he's going to shit on you top lane. He was built around being rewarded for getting into meelee, and by his class definition he deletes anyone that is squishy.
I mean it's not like Jayce counters him, or Quinn, or Pantheon, or Poppy, or any Tank that stacks armor, or even Vlad. Naw. Counterpicks? No way. Those don't exist.
To add to that, here is how you properly counter any Talon player in lane, good or bad:
Stand away from your wave on the side starting Lv1 and force Talon to either W you or W the wave to push it in. Juke back and forth and get autos on minions if he tries to hold W. 9/10 he will try to hard push and rush level 2 though.
If he chooses you, just side-step either direction and trade him, just as long as you don't get hit by both rakes, it denies passive stacks + TL. Don't panic when he clips you with just 1 side of rake, as long as you don't have 2 passive stacks you're fine. Keep in mind any source of damage will extend the duration his stacks will stay on you, deny that, especially when he's close to 2, even if you have to miss minions.
If he chooses the wave, obviously punish the hell out of him. Rinse and repeat. As meelee you'll have to eat a crit Q if he's level 2+, but your full Rotation should out damage him as his W is on CD and doesn't have access his passive. His W will always have a 9s CD. That's a pretty decent window to abuse him with. Pre-6 if he can't get both rakes off his trading is abysmal. Especially compared to powerhouses top-lane that have high bases. Never look to get into extended trades/fights with him, unless you know 100% you can kill him first. His passive doesn't have a CD, so he can proc it over and over. Your window is the 9s on his W. He can also kite with W, so don't force an all-in if you know you can't get close enough in time.
If you do those steps successfully you should be able to go even, and if you out-skill the player even win lane. Try to ward around top tri frequently as any half brained Talon isn't going to just roam down top river. If he tries to roam, obviously hard push into his tower. Basic stuff. You have TP advantage as well, don't underestimate that. You really need to know how to manage minion waves. Even if you fall for the level 2 cheese, it won't hurt as hard if you can TP to catch the wave. However, since the Talon won't usually have TP, if you manage to kill him first and hard shove, your lane is auto-won. You can almost always bait Talon into being pushed in, and if your mid-laner isn't a monkey, Talon won't have many options but get ganked. He's also too squishy to sneak in a camp. And since he doesn't have TP 99% of the time, he doesn't have the easy access to free kills bot lane like mid-lane does, which IMO is the biggest source of his snowball.
Sett up 4my gank2 votesWhy is talon forced to waste his Q/W on minions and then walk up to trade? Any smart player will just last hit with autos and zone or if he uses W to waveclear he'll just trade with Q aa in melee and walk away or he'll just back off before W is on CD again.
Yes its easy to beat a bad player playing talon, now if hes smart theres not a lot you can do about it, theres a reason talon TOP has a massive win rate, he pretty much auto wins vs melee if he has a clue.
There is a lot of reason's, 1 if he is melee on you then his W is just that much easier to dodge, its thinner up close and it takes longer to get back obviously, and talon will lose a trade if he doesnt proc his passive. he also only has 2 abilities so you have a pretty big advantage starting level 3 on a lot of champions. Talon's winrate top is so high because lethality WAS overtuned, on top of that his level 2 is extremely cheesy and playing against someone who hasn't playeed against new talon yet, or even played very few times will just get destroyed by his level 2. His playrate top is also pretty low, which makes my last point of people who haven't played vs him much get caught off guard even bigger.
Craft Zeppelin2 votesIts not lethality, hes killing ppl before he even has a dirk.
His Q in melee and passive does too much damage, basically as a melee champ you have to zone yourself starting lvl 2 or he'll 100-20 + ignite and aas and kill you.
That level 2 cheese is way too reliable. I bet it will be nerfed in a patch or two.
Joxcab1 votesIt already has nerfs to multiple parts of it on PBE.
Craft Zeppelin1 votesIt already has nerfs to multiple parts of it on PBE.
...they removed it sir. The koreans notorious or their 20 min game close were already abusing the crap out of it before the lethality fiasco. Im simply puzzled.
Joxcab2 votesBecause Lethality was nerfed instead? As was damage masteries?
RexSaur1 votes[{quoted}](name=Craft Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GOeqVEbn,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-02-27T08:34:13.632+0000)
That level 2 cheese is way too reliable. I bet it will be nerfed in a patch or two.
Idk whats with riot with them giving all those supposed bad early laners (like kat) 100-0 potential at lvl 2.
They are not supposed to be that strong early game, their kits isnt balanced around it.
Joxcab1 votesno.
