[@ Riot] Rammus W feedback !

One Ashe On·May 17, 2017·4 votes·1,043 views

The whole change to Rammus is okay , it's pretty dealable with, the W is getting stronger late game than actual W and E change is fine for killing minions and monster.. however.. the new W slow that you guys added... is gutting Rammus entirely. Even if you play him jungle, if you taunt your enemy or even if you just activate your W to reduce damage output of a spell coming to you, you are literally killing yourself. Why you may ask ? You slow yourself down so hard, that running away isn't even an option anymore.. Even for killing said taunted target. If they get away by cleansing or whatever, you are done for... the slow is aweful to play with and should be either removed, lowered, or lowered per level at least. Even thought i would prefer to total removal, and a smaller slow on his ultimate on the result. The Slow need to be looked at, removed or lowered by a good margin or else Rammus will go to the spot next to Yorick pre rework, forgotten..

36 Comments

The Yetii RiderMay 18, 20173 votes

The self slow is fine. It forces Rammus to build Boots of Swiftness, which is good because Ninja Tabi is just too good on him.

One Ashe OnMay 18, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNss3atH,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-05-18T00:09:07.267+0000)

The self slow is fine. It forces Rammus to build Boots of Swiftness, which is good because Ninja Tabi is just too good on him.

No, it shouldn't force you to buy a special boot to self counter weakness added to the champion, ninja tabi is good for rammus and should remain the first choice, the slow is way to much. Lane Rammus is destroyed just because of the said slow.

The Yetii RiderMay 18, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=One Ashe On,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNss3atH,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-05-18T00:41:47.621+0000)

No, it shouldn't force you to buy a special boot to self counter weakness added to the champion, ninja tabi is good for rammus and should remain the first choice, the slow is way to much. Lane Rammus is destroyed just because of the said slow.

The slow isn't that much. It's 60%, which is reduced by 15% automatically because of the Resolve mastery that gives 15% slow resistance, then Boots of Swiftness gives another 25% slow resistance. 15% of 60 is 9, 25% of 60 is 15, so the slow is only 36% with Swiftness and the mastery. That's still noticeable, but not very hampering.

You're basically gimping yourself by building Tabi on him. Adapt.

One Ashe OnMay 18, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNss3atH,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-05-18T01:08:24.705+0000)

The slow isn't that much. It's 60%, which is reduced by 15% automatically because of the Resolve mastery that gives 15% slow resistance, then Boots of Swiftness gives another 25% slow resistance. 15% of 60 is 9, 25% of 60 is 15, so the slow is only 36% with Swiftness and the mastery. That's still noticeable, but not very hampering.

You're basically gimping yourself by building Tabi on him. Adapt.

They added a slow to the rework sejuani and it felt bad, so they removed it. Blitz is one of the only who have a slow and it's for a short duration and most of blitz run when they get slowed down and it's not even that huge of a slow. Rammus didn't deserve it. Stop being a prick.

The Yetii RiderMay 18, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=One Ashe On,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNss3atH,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-18T01:12:33.942+0000)

They added a slow to the rework sejuani and it felt bad, so they removed it. Blitz is one of the only who have a slow and it's for a short duration and most of blitz run when they get slowed down and it's not even that huge of a slow. Rammus didn't deserve it. Stop being a prick.

Champions that slow themselves: Varus TahmKench Xerath . You can play around a self-slow. It's not that big of an issue. If Rammus wants to run away now he can use Q and not be tanky while he's doing it. Either stay in the middle of fight and tank, or give up your defensive steroid to run away. That's fair. That promotes thinking and interaction.

One Ashe OnMay 18, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNss3atH,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-18T02:02:19.924+0000)

Champions that slow themselves: . You can play around a self-slow. It's not that big of an issue. If Rammus wants to run away now he can use Q and not be tanky while he's doing it. Either stay in the middle of fight and tank, or give up your defensive steroid to run away. That's fair. That promotes thinking and interaction.

Varus it's to shot a long skill shot so it's fine, same for Xerath, Vi it's a gap closer and she can move still and it's only 20% and Tahm Kench is where he devour an enemy and if he was able to devour he was in close range already and probably surrounded by allies so it's fine as well.

The Yetii RiderMay 18, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=One Ashe On,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNss3atH,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-18T02:28:23.515+0000)

Varus it's to shot a long skill shot so it's fine, same for Xerath, Vi it's a gap closer and she can move still and it's only 20% and Tahm Kench is where he devour an enemy and if he was able to devour he was in close range already and probably surrounded by allies so it's fine as well.

What makes you think Rammus won't use it in close range or when he's surrounded by allies? It's meant to be combined with Frenzying Taunt, you should already be in melee range while you're using it.

One Ashe OnMay 18, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNss3atH,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-18T02:29:22.846+0000)

What makes you think Rammus won't use it in close range or when he's surrounded by allies? It's meant to be combined with Frenzying Taunt, you should already be in melee range while you're using it.

When i say it gut Rammus it mean it pigeon hole him in jungle where he is only there to gank and taunt for his team, i play him top lane and this change destroy his ability to lane at all. You have to be mobile to farm minions and dont stay to long in your oponent face to get free harass and the new W deny this completely.

The Yetii RiderMay 18, 20172 votes

The Sunfire Cape changes gutted Rammus top already. How are you supposed to deal with any sort of bruiser or duelist in top lane if all the defensive items are weaker on their own? A single item buy on a tank is terrible now, you're much better off jungling with tanks anyway.

One Ashe OnMay 18, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNss3atH,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-18T02:40:01.937+0000)

The Sunfire Cape changes gutted Rammus top already. How are you supposed to deal with any sort of bruiser or duelist in top lane if all the defensive items are weaker on their own? A single item buy on a tank is terrible now, you're much better off jungling with tanks anyway.

Rofl.. yes the sunfire cape nerf doesn't helped, but remember that cinderhulk as well.. so does it mean i have to stop play tank completly ? that what you are saying ? Because your logic is flawed dude.

The Yetii RiderMay 18, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=One Ashe On,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNss3atH,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-18T03:03:10.210+0000)

Rofl.. yes the sunfire cape nerf doesn't helped, but remember that cinderhulk as well.. so does it mean i have to stop play tank completly ? that what you are saying ? Because your logic is flawed dude.

The sunfire nerf affects Rammus top. The Cinderhulk changes don't really affect Rammus jungle because Rammus doesn't need to duel or tank harass in lane. That's the point of jungling, Rammus can just free farm when he wants and gank when he wants. The change to Sunfire Cape gutted Rammus top because Rammus is not playing PVE in top, he's dealing with an enemy who is going to try and kill him every chance he gets. That is not something jungle Rammus has to worry about in the majority of games.

One Ashe OnMay 18, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNss3atH,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-18T03:04:54.903+0000)

The sunfire nerf affects Rammus top. The Cinderhulk changes don't really affect Rammus jungle because Rammus doesn't need to duel or tank harass in lane. That's the point of jungling, Rammus can just free farm when he wants and gank when he wants. The change to Sunfire Cape gutted Rammus top because Rammus is not playing PVE in top, he's dealing with an enemy who is going to try and kill him every chance he gets. That is not something jungle Rammus has to worry about in the majority of games.

Yea but the game doesn't stop as jungling... in teamfight you will still deal mediocre damage and since it's cinderhulk, you will lack of resistance specially if you get mobility boot over ninja tabi or mercury thread... this is what i'm taking about.

The Yetii RiderMay 18, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=One Ashe On,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNss3atH,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-18T03:07:44.258+0000)

Yea but the game doesn't stop as jungling... in teamfight you will still deal mediocre damage and since it's cinderhulk, you will lack of resistance specially if you get mobility boot over ninja tabi or mercury thread... this is what i'm taking about.

The goal of the tank update was to lower the amount of damage dealt by tanks. If you want to deal damage in team fights, don't play tanks.

You can build Cinderhulk and then rush Thornmail quickly before team fights start. Then you have 100 armor, plus an additional 90+ armor when you press W. It's not ideal, but them's the breaks of making every defensive item weaker on its own. You need to delay the game long enough to get six items as a tank.

One Ashe OnMay 20, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNss3atH,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-18T03:11:08.532+0000)

The goal of the tank update was to lower the amount of damage dealt by tanks. If you want to deal damage in team fights, don't play tanks.

You can build Cinderhulk and then rush Thornmail quickly before team fights start. Then you have 100 armor, plus an additional 90+ armor when you press W. It's not ideal, but them's the breaks of making every defensive item weaker on its own. You need to delay the game long enough to get six items as a tank.

Lower damage output doesn't require to make them more clunky and useless. And it's what happened with Rammus rework.

The Yetii RiderMay 20, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=One Ashe On,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNss3atH,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-20T15:15:44.913+0000)

Lower damage output doesn't require to make them more clunky and useless. And it's what happened with Rammus rework.

Lol Rammus is not "useless". Rammus' main contribution to his team is taunting, and that's still there. His W gives him a ton of defense, which translates into more offense with his passive. I've played Rammus, the slow is barely noticeable with Boots of Swiftness.

SirGrey27May 18, 20171 votes

I'VE TESTED IT AND RAMMUS WITH ALL THE SLOWING RESISTANCES IS STILL SLOWER THAN UNMOUNTED KLED WHILE USING HIS W

The Yetii RiderMay 18, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I'VE TESTED IT AND RAMMUS WITH ALL THE SLOWING RESISTANCES IS STILL SLOWER THAN UNMOUNTED KLED WHILE USING HIS W

...And? Yes, that sounds about right. If Rammus has 370 MS or so with boots and he is slowed by 36%, that's about 108 MS lost, so he ends up with 260 or so. It's a big slow. That's the point. If the slow was any lower, then you could just ignore it with slow resistance.

SirGrey27May 18, 20171 votes

YOU CLEARLY DON'T SEE WHAT OUR POINT IS.......

The Yetii RiderMay 18, 20172 votes

{quoted}

YOU CLEARLY DON'T SEE WHAT OUR POINT IS.......

No, I don't. You've gained a much more powerful defensive steroid, 20+70% is a huge amount better than 120. Your ultimate slows now, which is fantastic for a tank and is a change Rammus has needed for ages. In exchange, when you go in you either get to be fast and squishy or immobile and tanky. So no, I have no idea what your point is.

SirGrey27May 18, 20171 votes

OKAY BUD LISTEN DO YOU NOW REALIZE HOW SLOW he'd be walking through basic slowing abilities like Teemo Shrooms, Jhin Traps, Lulu Polymorphs, Nasus Wither, Zilean Time Warp, Illaoi's Test of Spirit, Anivia Ult, Gangplank Ult etc the list goes on & on & on but think about this..............I HAVE THREE years of EXPERIENCE, WITH RAMMUS I played Rammus almost EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! I can tell you that by experience that many times I've used MY Defensive Ball Curl (W) TO avoid dying WHILE BEING CHASED NOW I can't even move yet alone run away OR dodge ABILITIES from ANYONE while using (W)....... I'VE also used it SEVERAL times (probably millions OF TIMES) to TANK Turret hits to help salvage the minion wave, & then simply walk out of range and then walk back in to help my teammates get the objective BUT NOW with the new 60% slowing effect you barely can move yet alone try and effectively tank ANY turret shots, unless you're standing at the border of the circle FORGET attacking the turret while tanking.......The new CD reduction for it is OKAY but as you remove it to move faster to get OUT of turret range you instantly take a FULL DMG turret shot.

The Yetii RiderMay 18, 20172 votes

{quoted}

OKAY BUD LISTEN DO YOU NOW REALIZE HOW SLOW he'd be walking through basic slowing abilities like Teemo Shrooms, Jhin Traps, Lulu Polymorphs, Nasus Wither, Zilean Time Warp, Illaoi's Test of Spirit, Anivia Ult, Gangplank Ult etc the list goes on & on & on but think about this..............I HAVE THREE years of EXPERIENCE, WITH RAMMUS I played Rammus almost EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! I can tell you that by experience that many times I've used MY Defensive Ball Curl (W) TO avoid dying WHILE BEING CHASED NOW I can't even move yet alone run away OR dodge ABILITIES from ANYONE while using (W)....... I'VE also used it SEVERAL times (probably millions OF TIMES) to TANK Turret hits to help salvage the minion wave, & then simply walk out of range and then walk back in to help my teammates get the objective BUT NOW with the new 60% slowing effect you barely can move yet alone try and effectively tank ANY turret shots, unless you're standing at the border of the circle FORGET attacking the turret while tanking.......The new CD reduction for it is OKAY but as you remove it to move faster to get OUT of turret range you instantly take a FULL DMG turret shot.

So then...play better? Don't let yourself get out of position? Don't dive under turrets for no reason until you're tanky enough to get out? Or just die for the dive...tanks are the ones who are supposed to die first. If you die but someone else lives, you've done your job.

As for multiple slow stacking, yes, that will definitely be annoying, but that's why you can turn the W off early. Just turn it off if you think you're about to get hit by some important skill you need to dodge. Or, get hit by the skill and use your massive resistances to shrug it off, the way the ability is intended to be used.

You should not be able to run away while being a massive bulwark, Rammus is a Vanguard. His job is to go in and create advantages for his team, take hits and move on. He has raw defensive stats to allow him to do that, he doesn't need to run away and if the enemy team turns his bad engage against him he shouldn't have a get out of jail free card.

SirGrey27May 18, 20171 votes

ANOTHER FACT YOU DON'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND, TURNING OFF YOUR W MAKES YOU VULNERABLE TO ANYTHING, IF YOU'RE LOW HP AND GET HIT BY AN ABILITY YOU'LL MOST LIKELY DIE, WITH YOUR W UP THOUGH YOU WON'T DIE..... HENCE THE SLOW BEING A HUGE NERF... LISTEN STOP TRYING TO JUSTIFY YOURSELF I have the 2ND MOST, YES the 2ND MOST Mastery Points in NORTH AMERICA... and THE 14TH MOST in the WORLD FOR RAMMUS, THESE CHANGES DO NOT MAKE HIS KIT BETTER, HIS TANKY MOBILITY WAS HIS KIT IT'S NOT A GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD.

The Yetii RiderMay 18, 20172 votes

Turning off your W makes you...slightly vulnerable, sure. You're still built full tank. You still have 4k health, 200 armor and MR, Courage of the Colossus...I'm not seeing it. Even if you die, it's not the end of the world. You dying means someone else didn't die. Why are you so concerned about living through every fight as a tank? Dying is just a part of tanking, you are absorbing damage for your teammates so they can kill the enemy.

SirGrey27May 18, 20171 votes

NO OFFENCE BUD BUT YOU ONLY HAVE 6,885 POINTS/AND YOU'RE LVL 3 WITH RAMMUS YOUR FEEDBACK IS IRRELEVANT TO ME

The Yetii RiderMay 18, 20172 votes

I am suggesting methods for how you cope with the changes as a Rammus player. How you take the benefits of the kit that have been provided and how you can, through the skill that you have developed as an experienced Rammus player, avoid the negatives. This rework is overall a buff, any tank player can see that. More CC? Good. More mobility? Good. Higher defenses? Good. Easier time clearing the jungle? Good. You shouldn't focus so much on the one bad aspect that was added.

See, what you're doing here is complaining and bitching about the weakness. I came in to try and discuss the way that you could avoid the weakness, how you could perhaps cope with the self-slow and the ways in which the self-slow is actually a positive thing for Rammus (by limiting his ability to escape situations that he shouldn't be able to escape and by forcing him to build Boots of Swiftness instead of Ninja Tabi which makes him too tanky too early). Your main point is that the weakness should be entirely removed, which is...just not going to happen. Riot is not going to listen to one complaint on the board, especially when the one weakness was accompanied by so many good changes. It's much better and healthier for you in the long run to simply learn how to play with the changes instead of demanding they be removed the second they hit live.

SirGrey27May 18, 20171 votes

AGAIN NO OFFENCE BUD BUT YOU'RE NOT AN EXPERIENCE RAMMUS PLAYER LOL THERE WEREN'T ANY GOOD CHANGES OTHER THAN THE CC ADDED TO HIS ULT. I APPRECIATE YOUR ADVICE BUT THESE ARE ALL THINGS I'VE TESTED ALREADY. ALL THESE "HELPFUL" TIPS YOU'RE TRYING TO GIVE DON'T ACTUALLY WORK, RAMMUS HAD WEAKNESSES BEFOREHAND & THEY'VE MADE HIM WEAKER. HIS MOBILITY WAS HIS STRENGTH AND THEY'VE COMPLETELY REMOVED THAT TO MAKE HIM A TINY BIT MORE TANKY GO TRY GETTING BETTER AT NUNU BEFORE YOU TRY AND GIVE ADVICE TO ONE OF THE MOST ELITE RAMMUS PLAYERS IN THE WORLD

The Yetii RiderMay 18, 20172 votes

{quoted}

AGAIN NO OFFENCE BUD BUT YOU'RE NOT AN EXPERIENCE RAMMUS PLAYER LOL THERE WEREN'T ANY GOOD CHANGES OTHER THAN THE CC ADDED TO HIS ULT. I APPRECIATE YOUR ADVICE BUT THESE ARE ALL THINGS I'VE TESTED ALREADY. ALL THESE "HELPFUL" TIPS YOU'RE TRYING TO GIVE DON'T ACTUALLY WORK, RAMMUS HAD WEAKNESSES BEFOREHAND & THEY'VE MADE HIM WEAKER. HIS MOBILITY WAS HIS STRENGTH AND THEY'VE COMPLETELY REMOVED THAT TO MAKE HIM A TINY BIT MORE TANKY GO TRY GETTING BETTER AT NUNU BEFORE YOU TRY AND GIVE ADVICE TO ONE OF THE MOST ELITE RAMMUS PLAYERS IN THE WORLD

These are all things you've tested in the what, twelve hours since the patch came out? Come on now, don't pretend that you can completely grasp the power or weaknesses of a rework in ten to twenty games, you need to play at least fifty games or so before you can really say that Rammus has been made weaker.

One Ashe OnMay 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'VE TESTED IT AND RAMMUS WITH ALL THE SLOWING RESISTANCES IS STILL SLOWER THAN UNMOUNTED KLED WHILE USING HIS W

SirGrey, i understand you are angry and everything and trying to show your point but you should really stop using cap lock. People won't take you seriously if you do so, neither Riot.

ArdunoMay 18, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=One Ashe On,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNss3atH,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-05-18T00:41:47.621+0000)

No, it shouldn't force you to buy a special boot to self counter weakness added to the champion, ninja tabi is good for rammus and should remain the first choice, the slow is way to much. Lane Rammus is destroyed just because of the said slow.

Even with item 3009 he's pretty slow when using his W and a ton of champions can kite him when he uses his W

One Ashe OnMay 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Even with he's pretty slow when using his W and a ton of champions can kite him when he uses his W

Lucian Say hello !

Wind WhistlerMay 17, 20171 votes

Was with you until that last comment. As someone who mained Yorick, that completely triggered me.

Are you trying to fucking say that he ISN'T forgotten now? His playrate is almost the same. In fact, I think I've even seen him LESS than I used to. Not to mention he's totally cancer now.

One Ashe OnMay 17, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Was with you until that last comment. As someone who mained Yorick, that completely triggered me.

Are you trying to fucking say that he ISN'T forgotten now? His playrate is almost the same. In fact, I think I've even seen him LESS than I used to. Not to mention he's totally cancer now.

Well Yorick was barely played before rework and i see him way more than before and i'm in silver, not even gold or higher.

Wind WhistlerMay 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=One Ashe On,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNss3atH,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-05-17T22:09:04.538+0000)

Well Yorick was barely played before rework and i see him way more than before and i'm in silver, not even gold or higher.

That's weird, because I don't. Also, I don't really think that's accurate. There were champions who were played less than Yorick. Galio and Sion. Especially Sion. God, I didn't even know he existed until around 6 months after I started playing League, lol. Only saw him about 3 times per 1000 games before he was removed.

MrHaZeYoMay 18, 20171 votes

You can reactivate it to turn it off lol.

60% might be a bit to much, if it really is awful as Sirgray thinks, it'll get buffed, just give it time lol.

I hate the Powerball being a channel more than the slow on Defense Curl. Love the AS steroid of the taunt and love the slow on tremors. Also keep in mind with Tremors you're self slow on Defense Curl kind of evens out.

SikitywikedMay 18, 20171 votes

I had a thought, @riot what if the W was a true toggle on and off ability with a 0.5 cooldown or something. It could self slow 10-25% max but cost a little bit of mana to keep it on. That way riot could still have him unable to run people down whilst having his Q down, add a higher skill floor to mitigating damage only when you are being attacked (like holding a shield up to block an arrow while its flying towards you) and because of a steady mana drain you won't be able to just keep it on forever in a team fight. Similar to an amumu W. I don't feel like rammus should be a pot-commit champion like Kled is, as he doesn't have the tools Kled has. The only other suggestion I have is, when you deactivate W early maybe he could gain movement speed for a few seconds or get a mini reset on his Q? After your taunt ends everyone seems to be able to run away even if you have your ult running. This way you could at least have a chance of getting to someone that dashes away or disengaging a fight after doing your combo. Just some things I was thinking about to make rammus better for people who spend a lot of time playing him and would like to hear what people think. Cheers :)

One Ashe OnMay 20, 20171 votes

Bump, it require more opinion and poll answer if we want this to be seen.