@Meddler, about Counterpicks

ACENOX·Sep 9, 2016·5 votes·546 views

is riot trying to move slowly into a "counterpick" philosophy?

because (PBE)inflected cleaver: now applies gravious wound

Mundo is going to be a counterpick to so many bruisers/champs in the game

is this intended?

18 Comments

Mira Arya EntheSep 9, 20162 votes

I hate the idea of counterpicks. It is basically saying that lane wins or losses are determined at champion select, rather than by player skill.

NetherlifeSep 9, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GJytV6ZH,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-09-09T06:26:33.810+0000)

I hate the idea of counterpicks. It is basically saying that lane wins or losses are determined at champion select, rather than by player skill.

Well there's a difference between counterpicks, and no counterplay.

Mira Arya EntheSep 9, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Well there's a difference between counterpicks, and no counterplay.

The idea currently that "You picked X and I picked Y so I win" Is already bad enough. We don't need more of that.

IcyPepperSep 9, 20162 votes

No, I think he's trying to say it's less "you picked X and I picked Y so I win" and more "you picked X and I picked Y so I have a slight advantage."

The former case isn't great design, imo. No champion should make one outright useless by its very existence, but the latter is fine as long as it's possible for the theoretically disadvantaged champion to win through better play.

Also, keep in mind that laning is not the entire game. One champion may utterly shit on another champion in lane, but once the teamfights start the other champion outright shines and leaves the former in the dust.

It's very, very complicated and I'm not entirely sure counterpicks will ever cease to exist.

Mira Arya EntheSep 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No, I think he's trying to say it's less "you picked X and I picked Y so I win" and more "you picked X and I picked Y so I have a slight advantage."

The former case isn't great design, imo. No champion should make one outright useless by its very existence, but the latter is fine as long as it's possible for the theoretically disadvantaged champion to win through better play.

Also, keep in mind that laning is not the entire game. One champion may utterly shit on another champion in lane, but once the teamfights start the other champion outright shines and leaves the former in the dust.

It's very, very complicated and I'm not entirely sure counterpicks will ever cease to exist.

Counterpicks in that form already exist. Riven has a slight advantage over Yasuo. Garen has a slight advantage over Riven. Shyvana can counter jungle essentially every jungler in the game. Caitlyn(should) destroy Vayne in laning.

These already exist. So if somebody is suggesting we should 'move toward that', they are saying it should be more severe.

IcyPepperSep 9, 20163 votes

Huh.

Personally, I'm fine with a sliding scale of how much one champion counters another, but there should be a limit so I'm probably on your side then...

Sona x RubickSep 9, 20161 votes

that doesn't matter, as long as you will have counterplay bound to spells you will have counterpick, like Blitzcrank vs Katarina

adding counterpicks in the game by making fiora able to dodge darius's ulti or mundo reducing healing won't change this fact.

NetherlifeSep 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona x Rubick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GJytV6ZH,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-09-09T06:42:52.614+0000)

that doesn't matter, as long as you will have counterplay bound to spells you will have counterpick, like vs

adding counterpicks in the game by making fiora able to dodge darius's ulti or mundo reducing healing won't change this fact.

True, there will always be counterpicks developed based on meta and popularity. I guess if nothing else, this just offers more alternatives.

NetherlifeSep 9, 20162 votes

Sounds like adding more counterplay to champions like Vlad, Swain, Illaoi, Gangplank, and Darius. All of which are popular in the top lane, and extremely strong. If you ask me, it's sounds like they're going back a little bit on their decision to remove Grevious Wounds from practically EVERY CHAMPION IN LEAGUE aside from Katarina. Lets not forget after they tore Grevious Wounds out of almost every champ that had it, they also removed Executioners Calling. In my opinion those were some of the derpiest times in Riot's history.

But I'm all for a counterpick philosophy, it could be a fun way of playing the game again. Perhaps in season 7. I'd like to know the answer as well.

RogueWillSep 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Sounds like adding more counterplay to champions like Vlad, Swain, Illaoi, Gangplank, and Darius. All of which are popular in the top lane, and extremely strong. If you ask me, it's sounds like they're going back a little bit on their decision to remove Grevious Wounds from practically EVERY CHAMPION IN LEAGUE aside from Katarina. Lets not forget after they tore Grevious Wounds out of almost every champ that had it, they also removed Executioners Calling. In my opinion those were some of the derpiest times in Riot's history.

But I'm all for a counterpick philosophy, it could be a fun way of playing the game again. Perhaps in season 7. I'd like to know the answer as well.

would we see the return of force of nature...I sure hope we do

Sona x RubickSep 9, 20161 votes

force of nature was removed because it could shut down mages in mid game since it cost 2600 gold and gave 76 mr, mages could not afford mr pen in mid game since they needed other items.

i think they should have just lowered the mr imo since tanks loved this item because it gave 8% movespeed.

MunchCrunchLunchSep 9, 20162 votes

thats what i should be. i feel like every champion needs a hard counter or two. many already do. some don't.

Sona x RubickSep 9, 20161 votes

Braum blocking the whole kit of Jhin yeah

if we have more hard counters, soloQ would remain the same (since you will have people second timing champs to hard counter) but LCS would see more diversity.

D357R0Y3RSep 9, 20161 votes

i would love to see them answering this counterpick question

TyrekGoldenspearSep 9, 20161 votes

I dunno, having an infected cleaver thrown into your back would leave some nasty wounds...

ThePartyLeaderSep 9, 20161 votes

So Mundo wins the 1v1 vs Mundo now.

manbearswineSep 9, 20161 votes

You realize there are worse things out there, right? cough hasagi cough

YaskamasandwichSep 9, 20161 votes

The entire season has been based off of counter picks from the start. Look at Fiora st the start. The ONLY strat to fight her was pick Panth or Malph or any other counter pick or else you lose. It has been that trend ever since, especially with all the bs tank assassins.