Im posting this after an ad tank teemo screamed at me for going ap ashe...

SmknWdl·Mar 10, 2015·4 votes·713 views

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M

16 Comments

Malix FarwinMar 10, 20153 votes

Contrary to what you may believe, 2 wrongs don't make a right.

SmknWdlMar 10, 20151 votes

Actually if wrong is the opposite of right and right is the opposite of left and if you make two left turns at 90 degrees that's 180 and that would mean you've turned around so in fact you are traveling around the opposite way you came, and the opposite could be referring to negative numbers and addition is going upwards, like multiplication so a negative times a negative is a positive meaning two wrongs do, in fact, make a right.

IcyPepperMar 10, 20151 votes

If you're talking about builds, neither of them are "wrong." Nothing wrong with a little meta-breaking for fun.

If you're talking about their behavior, then definitely.

It Hertz When IPMar 10, 20151 votes

AP Ashe is probably the more viable of the two. At least she HAS abilities that scale off of AP.

SmknWdlMar 10, 20151 votes

that's what i said but he just flamed at for feediing when he was 2/7 or something and i was like 8/4 after i suggested that maybe he go ap for the benefit of the team, since the enemy team build lots of armor but little mr

Lord DusteonMar 10, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darien Juranas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GHXnml9M,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-10T01:25:08.360+0000)

AP Ashe is probably the more viable of the two. At least she HAS abilities that scale off of AP.

Autoattacks have a 1.0 AD scaling. Ashe ult has a 1.0 AP scaling. After 2-3 auto attacks, AD teemo has outdamaged AP Ashe.

Malix FarwinMar 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GHXnml9M,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-03-10T01:42:38.918+0000)

Autoattacks have a 1.0 AD scaling. Ashe ult has a 1.0 AP scaling. After 2-3 auto attacks, AD teemo has outdamaged AP Ashe.

not to mention he went tanky so he could at least be a punching bag or distraction. Lets not also forget teemo still has shrooms which are great for map control

It Hertz When IPMar 10, 20151 votes

For sustained DPS yeah, but Ashe's ult makes a wicked teamfight initiator. Throw in item 3115 and some magic pen to boost her autos, and voila.

Lord DusteonMar 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darien Juranas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GHXnml9M,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2015-03-10T13:00:29.601+0000)

For sustained DPS yeah, but Ashe's ult makes a wicked teamfight initiator. Throw in and some magic pen to boost her autos, and voila.

Let me point out a comparable build (AD Bruiser Teemo vs AP Ashe).

(Assuming no runes or masteries, level 18 teemo/ashe, against a 2000 health, 70 armor, and 30 mr target. This assumes a 4 second damaging window)

Teemo build: Berserker's Greaves, BotRK, Ghostblade, Trinity Force, 2 defensive items.

AD: 184 AS: 2.29, decreased to 2.02 for the last second (eight autoattacks total, .11 off of a 9th) AP: 30 Crit chance: 25% Trinity proc: 198

Magic damage: 284 from Q, 472 from E on hit, 132 from DoT, 465 from R. Total of 1353 before resistances, 1041 after resistances.

Physical damage (ignoring BotRK passive): 396 Trinity procs, 200 BotRK active, ~1840 (assuming 2 crits; actual number could be higher or lower, but this is the average damage) autoattacks. Total of 2436 before resistances, 1624 after resistances.

Teemo would do a total of 2665 damage after resistances.

Ashe build: Lichbane, Nashor's Tooth, Sorcerer's Shoes, Deathcap, Zhonya's, Void Staff.

AD: 100 AS: 1.43 (5 autoattacks, .28 off from a 6th) AP: 598 Lichbane proc: 374 Nashor's on hit: 105

Magic damage: 748 Lichbane, 525 Nashors, 1198 ult. 2471 damage pre resistances, 2365 after.

Physical damage: 200 passive crit, 400 autoattacks, 180 W. 780 damage pre resistances, 459 after.

Ashe would do a total of 2824 damage after resistances.

Using this, Teemo would equal Ashe's damage if BotRK's passive did 159 damage (since the passive proccing on a 1988 health target once would do this much it's safe to say it proccing multiple times on a 2000 health target would do more). So a champion you are building primarily around burst is outdamaged in 4 seconds by a champion building as a bruiser.

If you want Ashe to do more sustained damage (and if you built nashor's you do, since Ashe's only AP scaling otherwise is lichbane and her 80 second cooldown ultimate), go AD, which will both increase her effective health via lifesteal AND give actual damage.

Yes, AD Teemo is meh. But he's still going to outdamage you, his shrooms give massive map presence even without AP, and he has a CC that completely destroys enemy autoattacks on a point and click. AP Ashe has her stun, E vision, and autoattack range slows, which does not make up for her incredible squishiness AND low damage.

It Hertz When IPMar 10, 20151 votes

I'll give you the argument on numbers, I admit I hadn't actually buckled down and done the math (which I suck at). My question is, are you assuming Teemo attacks out of stealth (proccing his passive) or no? Also it would change if they were dueling each other or attacking other targets, as Teemo's blind would be better at dueling Ashe while Ashe's permaslow would be better at kiting an enemy fighter or tank, particularly the ones that rely on abilities as opposed to autoattacks.

Also, since our proposed target only has 30 mr I would swap Liandry's Torment for Void Staff, since Ashe's two damaging AP scaling abilities both have CC in them, proccing the full item passive. Again, this would help solidify AP Ashe's power against the tankier enemy champs to make up for lack of BoRK, even though the 20 less AP probably would hurt her odds against Teemo (unless his defense items are health-based).

Lord DusteonMar 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darien Juranas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GHXnml9M,comment-id=00000001000100000000,timestamp=2015-03-10T21:54:02.170+0000)

I'll give you the argument on numbers, I admit I hadn't actually buckled down and done the math (which I suck at). My question is, are you assuming Teemo attacks out of stealth (proccing his passive) or no? Also it would change if they were dueling each other or attacking other targets, as Teemo's blind would be better at dueling Ashe while Ashe's permaslow would be better at kiting an enemy fighter or tank, particularly the ones that rely on abilities as opposed to autoattacks.

Also, since our proposed target only has 30 mr I would swap Liandry's Torment for Void Staff, since Ashe's two damaging AP scaling abilities both have CC in them, proccing the full item passive. Again, this would help solidify AP Ashe's power against the tankier enemy champs to make up for lack of BoRK, even though the 20 less AP probably would hurt her odds against Teemo (unless his defense items are health-based).

Items wise, I gave Ashe Void Staff since after resistance shreds of that + boots the target had ~4 MR (plus or minus one, forgot exact amount). That meant a Void Staff would do MUCH more overall against any target that had over ~40 MR. Also, the burn from Liandry's is best on a poke/DoT champion, which would further push AP Ashe into a sustained damage champion, which AD Ashe does better.

Otherwise, Teemo is attacking from in stealth, though attacking without stealth provides the same damage in this case (since I rounded all AS basic attacks down). I didn't assume a duel, since Teemo would easily win; his sustained damage combined with blind and being semi tanky from defensive items makes him able to fight an extremely weak burst/sustained AP.

While Ashe does have the permaslow, that and her ult is her only contributation to a fight. Teemo has mapwide slows and a blind, so utility wise his is less reliable (hitting autoattacks or W as Ashe is guaranteed, hitting shrooms as Teemo is not) but much useful jungle and zone control.

It Hertz When IPMar 11, 20151 votes

Can't argue with that. I concede the point ^-^ thanks for the lesson!

Bears Dont CareMar 10, 20151 votes

That is ignoring armor though which is always highee than mr

Lord DusteonMar 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

That is ignoring armor though which is always highee than mr

And? So Teemo might have to autoattack one extra time, he's still going to outdamage Ashe (and due to his Q + shrooms out utility).

Bears Dont CareMar 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GHXnml9M,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-03-10T02:03:54.641+0000)

And? So Teemo might have to autoattack one extra time, he's still going to outdamage Ashe (and due to his Q + shrooms out utility).

Abilities havr base damage alongside their scaling. Ap is also much higher than ad. It requires.more than 1 more auto attack to do comparable damage to an ap builder. Imagine if there was no crit.how much.longer it would take to kill other champs.